Pro Wrestling

I was pondering this, and thought it might be worth a thread. Can any wrestler in America today be thought of as being a draw? It seems like the WWE does fairly consistent business no matter who's on top. John Cena is said to be the only guy who makes a real difference, although nobody ever really provides any hard numbers to back up those sorts of claims. And whenever he's gone for a while, business certainly doesn't go in the toilet during his absence. Meanwhile, TNA seems to be hellbent on proving that absolutely nobody is a true stand-alone draw nowadays. They've brought in a lot of guys who were fairly important at some point: Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Mick F…

I want to explore these sorts of instances. I don't mean instances where a guy is given a big push and then left into free-fall when it didn't work out (e.g. The Renegade), I mean occassions where something is HYPED at an event and then given very little airtime at it and effectively buried. The example I have in mind is the Yeti and the whole "three giants" angle at World War 3 1995. I mean if you watch that show it is absolutely baffling. Yeti is given an almost equal billing to Hogan and The Giant and treated as a major deal in all the pre-show stuff and then at the match itself he's absolutely buried. I mean totally. He's eliminated first. What a massive ab…

Thought this might be worth discussing. Particularly interested in what sorts of people would have been in the mix in the Backlund and Race eras, late 70s / early 80s sort of time. Later in the 80s, I think it goes without saying that DiBiase would have had a title run in 00s style booking. Probably Roddy Piper too.

Are there ANY podcasts out there talking about the history of SMW? If not, one should be made going over each year (1992 / 1993 / 1994 / 1995) individually, big shows, big angles, famous moments...

What arenas would you consider to be in the GOAT conversation? Mid-South Coliseum? The Dallas Sportatorium? The Omni? MSG? Philadelphia Spectrum? Tokyo Dome? Tokyo Korakuen Hall? Budokan Hall? Rosemont Horizon? Greensboro Coliseum? errrr ... Caesar's Palace? Difficult to know what the criteria would be aside from "how many great nights did it host" and "historical importance". I don't think this is a lock for MSG, not at all. Interested to hear people put cases forward for different places.

I still get confused by this stuff. Can someone explain, so we can refer back to it as needed, the following? (1) What does a rating actually represent? If RAW gets a 3.2, does this mean 3.2% of people with televisions were tuned into RAW? (2) Is the overall rating determined by averaging together all of the quarter hours? (3) How can Dave say that a segment with a wrestler lost or gained x number of viewers, unless every single segment lasts exactly 15 minutes and starts at the beginning of the quarter hour? If there is a backstage skit with AJ, then Punk comes out for a promo, but people tuned out during AJ's skit, it's not fair to say Punk's promo lost 600,000…

Where the Big Boys Play #7 – Great American Bash 85: Part 2 Brian and Parv conclude their round up of the Great American Bash 85. Highlights include: differences between perceptions of the cold war in the 80s in the UK and the US, more talk of the transition from “the Starrcade 83 Flair” to Slick Ric and the weirdness about him being heel vs. Magnum TA around this time but face vs. Nikita Koloff, speculation about Dusty’s secret (legit) dark desires for Baby Doll, the relative position of the US and TV titles in 85, and end of show awards.

Where the Big Boys Play #4 – Starrcade 84: Part 1 Chad and Parv take a look at the first six matches of Starrcade ’84. Highlights include: Kamala’s wife and his payoffs, some thoughts on World Class, the definition of “catch-as-catch-can”, what the hell were the Zambuie Express meant to be? Dusty Rhodes looking the biggest he has EVER looked drapped in a tracksuit jacket, more complaints about the quality of finishes on these early NWA shows, some appreciation of JJ Dillon as a manager, Chad reveals his undying love for “Boogie Woogie Man” Jimmy Valiant, and Parv wonders why heels are always intelligent schemers and why faces are always happy-go-lucky “not too br…

Let's start of with the most recentone - Brock Lesnar losing clean to John Cena at Extreme Rules in his first match back. So many people are confounded about this and simply can't fathom the logic (and neither could I until it happened, since I couldn't actually think of any scenario where Cena would go over) that Lesnar lost. I think ultimately it comes down to two things - Brock being a good sport and voluntary taking a loss, perhaps to appease his detractors who are pissed that he's just turned up and been pushed to the moon, or then there is the possibility that Lesnar doesn't care whether he wins or loses because he's being paid a ludicrous amount of money to wo…

I think we can all agree that title belts don't mean quite as much as they used to. Whether it's having too many championships, or too many title changes, or too many cheap finishes during said title changes, or too many title matches on free TV, or whatever: clearly they're not as important as in previous eras. Having gotten that bit of Captain Obvious out of the way, however: just how important are they nowadays? The WWE has seemed like they've been on a mission for the past dozen years to make their world titles as meaningless as humanly possible. The fact that they have two championships which are both supposed to be the Best In The World type deal (alth…

Having dragged the discussion about TNA possibly being the worst wrestling promotion ever to another board, somebody inquired if the wrestling world would be better off without TNA, and if it folded, could somebody step up to fill the void for an alternative to WWE? I think we all know TNA is only able to be a true alternative for those who are considered the top guys in that company, whereas anyone lower on the card gets very little and would be better off under a WWE developmental deal, but I do believe when the person who posed those questions did so, he was thinking more about whether or not somebody could rise up to be a true No. 2 promotion that could provide a…

Don't know why but I was thinking about this today. Is anyone aware of substantial online communities of 'smart wrestling fans' somewhat akin to the greater DVDVR region we're in? Are there similar groups of Japanese fans who traded lots of tapes back in the day and talk about finding cool new matches from the US or Mexico? Is there a sizable German message board where people are putting together comps with the aim of critically viewing a bunch of obscure wrestling from Japan, Mexico, etc etc? Is the english-speaking online community unique in the scope of our deepest level of wrestling fandom?

A recap of the initial announcment from Bleacher Report: Punk tweeted the following tweets today: Obviously just being a WWE Superstar his DVD is overdue at this stage and it is an exciting project solely based on his WWE run but the muted inclusion of non-WWE owned footage has me really intrigued given all the politics, ownership rights and WWE's anal production rules.

I think it would be a great project to compile all of this into a narrative. Talk about the origins of tape trading in wrestling, star ratings, PWI, fan clubs, sheets, the Philly audience, ECW, the Internet, the impact all of this has had on promotions, etc. I think there's an interesting story to be told by weaving all of that together. Would be something cool for someone to take on. Just throwing it out there.

Punk never going on last as champ is frustrating. How's the show?

What are some examples of guys shunted into roles they clearly didn't suit? The two I will put forward are: Greg Valentine in Rhythmn and Blues -- never has a guy looked less comfortable and more awkward in a role than him with black hair trying to do an Elvis face. John Tolos as The Coach -- now I don't know this guy's older stuff. Remember reading that he was quite a star on the West Coast, but he properly sucked as Perfect's manager. Who else?

One of the lasting legacies of the Attitude Era has been the near-constant presence of "the GM role" on almost all wrestling TV since. An on-air authority figure who makes matches, adds stipulations at whim, makes announcements, argues with faces and heels and so on. This role seems to be deeply ingrained in the thinking of the so-called creatives and writers now. I've seen entire TNA shows that seem to take place in "the commissioner's office". And everyone treats it like a big deal when they wheel out a "Legend" to be the "Special guest GM" on Raw. So prevalent is the use of this role, that one might be forgiven for assuming that it is structurally necessary in some…

Issue 82 of Fighting Spirit Magazine is now available! In this month's edition, FSM has features on: - Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara, and their future as WWE pursues the Mexican market - The most memorable moments from 1,000 episodes of Monday Night Raw - How WWE should make more of the legends of the industry - How Ryback's enhancement matches have enhanced his popularity - FSM looks back on the career of Christopher Daniels, as he enjoys a fine run in TNA - FSM speaks to Davey Richards about his career, and about his future away from the ring - How Pat Roach became one of the most famous and well-respected British wrestlers in history - FSM sits down with G…

Post your favorite bits of wrestling TV. By which I mean, not necessarily particular promos, or great tv matches(though both can be a part of it) but moreso well-executed/memorably story arcs, angles, segments, fun over booked matches, etc etc. You know what I mean(I hope!). Triple H vs. Ric Flair RAW stuff. Awesome story, great Flair promo, actually got me pumped up and excited to see the match whose outcome I know that happened like 9 years ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWq7bkkq4zo (does this forum have youtube embedding?)

I kind of got thinking about this with some of the RoH chat in the other thread. This post is mostly about how a lot of indy promotions try to reinvent the wheel and how wrestling seems to work best when you stick to the basics. I didn't really what else to name the title of this thread so forgive me if the title kind of sucks. Anyways, here are a couple of areas where I feel people like to try and tweak wrestling and it makes everything fall apart. So let's take a look: 1. Face/Heel alignment. This seems to be a favorite place for indys to try and reinvent the wheel. You go to some show and you have a bunch of guys trying to be tweener douches or cool heels. …

Been working my way though this, wanted to share some random thoughts. Sting vs Flair (Clash I) Flair vs Funk These matches have been written about ad nauseum. 4* or 5*, they hold up quite well. And Flair/Funk has this wonderful intensity about it even without the blood. Watching it again I felt like Flair was working a standard Flair match, while Funk was putting together a master performance. Both wrestling and verbally. Mil Mascaras vs Cactus Jack I feel like Alberto Del Rio misses a golden opportunity not channeling his uncle more. Mil Mascaras has this vibe about him similar to Alex Rodriguez. He's ridiculous concerned about his self image to the po…

This thread makes me curious for who everyone thinks is the actual greatest wrestler that ever lived. Just by ring work, not by promos/drawing too. Then who is the best when you factor in promos as well? As a fan, I don't really care about drawing power. I know it matters but I think that takes a lot of the opinion out of the question and turns it more into numbers.

Was talking to Loss about Cena and Lesnar going on the ballot this year among other things so I figured I'd start a thread. Based on the information we have from last year (who got in, who dropped off, and who Dave announced as being added for 2012 with reasonable guesses as to categorization) without any knowledge of if Dave was convinced to add more candidates (like Jimmy Hart) since the HOF issue came out, the list of candidates should look something like this: HISTORICAL PERFORMERS ERA CANDIDATES Gene & Ole Anderson The Masked Assassins (Jody Hamilton & Tom Renesto) Johnny Barend Red Bastien Pepper Gomez Dick Hutton Hans Schmidt Kinji Shi…

Hi guys, I'm on a business trip in NYC. I actually just asked a New York cop in Times Square if he knew where WWF New York was. I looked it up just now and saw that it shut in 2003, damn! Anyway, I've always been interested in the relationship between the WWF's success and its New York location. I'm convinced that if Vince had been based in Texas, or the Carolinas, or in Oklaholma, he wouldn't have been able to end the territory system in the way he did. Of course, he had talent as promotor, but how much of the initial leverage of the WWF's strength as "the top territory" even back in the 70s come from the fact that New York and the Tri-State area is the most densely…

Looking at the Wrestling Observer Match of the Year Awards, I was a bit surprised to see Ramon/Michaels won match of the year in 1994. Misawa/Kawada has such a mythical quality that I just assumed it had won that year. Which leads me to ask, at what point was Misawa/Kawada praised as the greatest match of all time? Almost immediately, or did it take time to filter through the smart wrestling community? Is it still considered the greatest match of all time? A related question I had pondered earlier. If you were to ask a smart wrestling fan in say, 1950, what would their response be? 1960? 1970? I think it'd be interesting to track the evolution of the GOAT question. W…