goc

Well, I can't either, and I'm sure his average vote will be lower than Santito's. But I really love Bobby Eaton. He was almost the perfect offensive wrestler, maybe the greatest tag wrestler of all time and a top-shelf in-ring heel. His skills were elite and his body of work fell behind only the best of the best. I'm pleased to see him climb so high and to me, he's an example of a "mainstream" choice that actually isn't that mainstream. I have no issue with Bobby and had him on my ballot. It just feels weird for me to see him finish so much higher than Dennis Condrey (199) and Stan Lane (260) when most of his case is made from teaming with those guys. Especially when those 2 guys were also part of great tag teams away from Bobby. It's not like I've ever watched a Midnight Express match and felt like Bobby Eaton was ten times better than his partner, it was a pretty equal pairing with both versions.

High five to Phil Schneider for having the exact same Top 2 as me.

Eaton is feeling really over rated at this point especially when you consider how long ago his tag partners dropped. I can't really see an argument for him over Santo.

At least Cena finished ahead of Shawn.

I'm not being sensitive about it I'm simply pointing out that the narrative that this list is dominated by mainstream U.S. wrestling in a way the 2006 list wasn't is not nearly what the naysayers are making it out to be.

It's missing a lot though. Yes Buddy is a US guy, but he is also a niche candidate. Lawler getting where he is, is not due to mainstream voting, etc... I don't even know who these unworthy "mainstream U.S." candidates are that are being referenced. Especially to try and compare this list to the 2006 version like it had such a smarter group of voters. These are the guys that arguably fit the "mainstream U.S." label and ranked on both lists: Barry Windham Steve Austin Bret Hart Ricky Steamboat Ric Flair Arn Anderson Owen Hart Ted Dibiase Randy Savage Curt Hennig Shawn Michaels Bobby Eaton The Rock Mick Foley Ricky Morton Kurt Angle Chris Jericho Rick Rude Hulk Hogan Brian Pillman Rick Martel Sgt. Slaughter So who exactly are the awful people on this list that the wizened voters of the past would have held their noses up at and had the great wisdom to reject?

The Rock ranked above Emilio Charles. HHH ranked above Fiera. Chris Jericho ranked above Sangre Chicana.Rock, HHH and Jericho have almost their entire careers on easily available footage. The 3 lucha guys do not and for Chicana and Fiera we are missing huge chunks of their peak. I still voted for them because we have some really great footage of them but I could see why others might not rate them due to that. As for Emilio he just didn't make the cut for me. I ranked 15 luchadores but he wasn't one of them. And I voted for Rock in my bottom 20.

Buddy Rose, who hasn't been talked up anywhere except here and DVDVR, jumping 233 spots from 2006 is not evidence of people "not watching footage" and just going on memory or whatever BS people are trying to come up with to justify why their favorite niche didn't do well. It doesn't matter if people on this board were pimping him as a possible #1 candidate because there aren't any other places on the internet where that discussion would take place. The idea that the voting was "infiltrated" by a bunch of horrible voters who only voted mainstream U.S. wrestlers really is not coming through in the results at all. Are there some ballots that didn't have anything but U.S. wrestlers? Yea but definitely not enough to where it's somehow tainted the entire pool. And it's not like there weren't ballots that were all guys who wrestled in Japan as evidenced by the ballot that had Inoki as #1 that GOTNW posted.

Yeah, I was really thinking about Buddy Rose when I talked about mainstream US guys... Fucking Portland. You aren't the only person spouting that nonsense. pol and fxnj were both saying yesterday that the list is somehow evidence of people NOT watching footage.

A jump of 203 spots is really good for Buddy Rose. I had him higher on my ballot but can't complain about how he finished considering Portland isn't really one of the territories most people usually seek out. I'd say his huge jump is evidence of more available footage helping him out but maybe it's just more of that awful "mainstream U.S. bias" creeping in.

Would have liked to see Satanico finish in the top 20. I know I'm not as high on Dandy as everyone else but I definitely think he should have ranked ahead of Dandy to be (what I am pretty sure will be) the 3rd highest ranked luchadore.

It's just

Then maybe you should stop crying about how people didn't rate enough shoot style or joshi workers.

Eaton feels over rated in comparison to Condrey and Stan Lane.

The crying about how there are too many mainstream U.S. candidates and how it shows people weren't really watching footage is hilarious to me. So guys like Greg Valentine, Tito Santana and Ron Garvin didn't benefit from people going back and watching their footage? It is especially funny when a 'bad' name comes up and people complain about his placement WHILE ADMITTING THEY VOTED FOR THEM.

The great thing about Tully is that we are getting stuff on NWAClassics that shows that his peak was longer than anyone was really giving him credit for. Most of the existing Southwest footage that was out there wasn't really adding to his case but the footage that has popped up from Houston has shown he was just as good in Texas in the early 80s as he was when he went to Crockett.

I kind of didn't want to rank Punk because of how overboard his biggest fans would always go in praising him but I couldn't leave him off when he had an all time great WWE feud with Jeff Hardy and another really great one with Rey. Then you add the Cena matches on to that and a surprisingly good match with Brock Lesnar. I say surprisingly good because I just didn't think Punk had the offense to be credible against Lesnar but he pulled it off. I thought the same about Ambrose and his weak offense and he didn't pull it off.

I don't remember the matches but I remember the feud was pretty bad with stuff about Punk's sister and whatnot.

This and add Harley Race to the list for me. The only Harley stuff I've seen that I really liked were the Baba matches. Big Show

The Nightmares are the great 80s tag team that no one ever talks about. Really great tag team that could brawl, fly, wrestle heel or face, they could do pretty much anything. They had a decent run in Memphis but their best run by far was in Continental.

Agreed. Not nearly enough people watching NWAClassics. Or Memphis/lucha on youtube.

What do you recommend we do about it? Force them to watch shoot style and joshi Clockwork Orange style until they realize the error of their ways.

We'll see as the reveals continue, but the group that seems to have benefited is 80s JCP guys. And 80s territory guys would be one of the major groups to benefit from expanded access & availability of footage.

Seems like just a bunch of hand wringing to me when I bet at least half of the top 10 is going to be Japanese guys (or in the case of Hansen a guy whose case is made off of his work in Japan)