Loss
Admins
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Everything posted by Loss
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He had multiple matches with Jericho and Angle. Which ones are you referring to? He had multiple matches with HHH. Which ones stunk, or did they all stink?
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What are they? Dates or they never happened.
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Matches can be laid out brilliantly, but Pat/Arn can't wrestle for them. By the way, Negro Suave's post about Hogan/Cena is hard to argue and I agree with it. I think it's the most effective pro-Hogan argument.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but it always seems like writers don't become Dave sources until they're no longer with the company. I can't remember Dave ever really going into detail about what life is like as a WWE writer and just covering the topic in depth. Maybe he has and I just don't remember.
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That was the whole point. Flair didn't originate the gimmick either.
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Hogan missed his face by about a foot, shook his own head when issuing a choke (which always looks fake when anyone does it -- I HATE IT WHEN MENG DOES THIS) and executed multiple legdrops without his other leg leaving the ground.
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May: #1 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW 05/21/94) ****3/4 #2 - Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (WCW Saturday Night 05/14/94) ****1/2 #3 - Steven Regal vs Larry Zbyszko (WCW Saturday Night 05/28/94) ****1/4 #4 - Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan vs Nasty Boys (WCW Slamboree 05/22/94) ****1/4 #5 - El Hijo del Santo, Jushin Liger, Octagon & Tiger Mask vs Blue Panther, Eddy Guerrero, La Parka & Psicosis (AAA Triplemania 05/15/94) ****1/4 #6 - Jake Roberts vs Dirty White Boy (SMW TV 05/14/94) **** #7 - Mascara Sagrada vs Black Cat (AAA Triplemania 05/15/94) **** #8 - Genichiro Tenryu vs Atsushi Onita (FMW 05/05/94) **** #9 - Dustin Rhodes vs Bunkhouse Buck (WCW Slamboree 05/22/94) ***3/4 #10 - Kiyoshi Tamura vs Naoki Sano (UWFI 05/06/94) ***3/4 #11 - Steven Regal vs Larry Zbyszko (WCW Slamboree 05/22/94) ***3/4 #12 - Jushin Liger vs Super Delphin (NJPW Best of the Super Juniors 05/30/94) ***3/4 #13 - El Hijo del Santo, Perro Aguayo, Mascara Sagrada & Lizmark vs Satanico, La Parka, Psicosis & Black Cat (AAA 05/27/94) ***1/2 #14 - Bret Hart vs Randy Savage (WWF Yokohama 05/07/94) #15 - Arn Anderson & Terry Funk vs Bobby Eaton & Sabu (ECW When Worlds Collide 05/14/94) #16 - Konnan, Perro Aguayo & Cien Caras vs Jake Roberts, Miguel Perez Jr. & Love Machine (AAA Triplemania 05/15/94) #17 - Jake Roberts vs Dirty White Boy (SMW 05/20/94) #18 - Terry Funk vs Tully Blanchard (WCW Slamboree 05/22/94) #19 - Mikey Whipwreck vs Pit Bull (ECW TV 05/17/94) #20 - Jerry Lawler vs Eddie Gilbert (USWA TV 05/21/94) Overall thoughts: Enjoying the WCW hot streak while I can. I may or may not get another month out of it. We'll see.
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"The other day, I told Stu to act his age and he died." Good Lord, Jerry. Lawler brings out Bret as his guest before ambushing him with Diesel and Shawn as surprise guests. They trade a few lame barbs at each other before Diesel suckerpunches Bret and he and Shawn work him over. Lawler even joins in the fun. In a nice visual, referees hit the ring to try to break things up and Diesel scares them all away. Still, Diesel was the challenger and all the heat was on Shawn and Lawler.
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I've always seen Delphin as the Poor Man's Liger, but wow, that outfit takes the idea to an entirely new level. It's even the exact same shade of red, which seems virtually impossible without a pantone code. He looks like a kid dressed like Liger for Halloween. Grade A trolling right there. This is pretty clever. When Delphin is working from the top and doing the Boston crab and camel clutch, you really just think time isn't on his side. He's trying to out-Liger Liger, and that's going to catch up to him. Obviously, Liger is so much better than him at those things that at first I wanted them to strike more of a contrast, then I realized what they were doing -- a guy wrestling his biggest influence by trying to use all of his own stuff against him - and saw the genius of this match. Delphin can't - and shouldn't - execute borrowed moves as well as Liger, but he's here to make a statement and he is going to try anyway. It's interesting that any staying power Delphin has is when he focuses on the stuff he does that isn't so derivative. He's as good a flyer as Liger, and he garners the most momentum when he takes to the air. When they start working to the finish, Liger gives Delphin A LOT of offense, to the point where Liger is the one scrambling to kick out of things in the nick of time. It looked like another bullying Liger match in the opening minutes and turned out to be anything but that. Liger realizes that he's going to have to up the ante and put out a little more than he may have thought to compete here and rolls out his own series of highspots. Delphin looks like the hero for kicking out of the top rope huracanrana the first time around, before Liger finally finishes him off. People are a little tired of sportsmanship in post matches these days, and for good reason, but Liger checking on him fit the match really well, and the "Delphin" chants told me that they should have found a way to make Delphin his tag team partner to try to capitalize on the match. This isn't Liger's best match of the year by any means, but it is his most charming.
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I had never seen this before, so I was excited to finally see it. What a beautiful wrestling match. They almost entirely work holds, which I'd normally call a novelty, but there has been so much great wrestling and so much variety from WCW in 1994 that it's not really too novel. Still, this is classy. Great match.
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For the record, I don't think it's ridiculous to pick Hogan over Cena, and I'm not dismissive of the opinion by any means. What I think is the far more interesting discussion is what people value in wrestlers, which can't help but become important when comparing them. I will never argue Cena - or really, anyone - as being a star at the magnitude of Hogan. But stardom is not everything. Do you consider Ric Flair to be better than Hulk Hogan? Flair - a huge star in his own right - was not as big a star or as over as Hulk was. Do you consider Randy Savage better? Bret Hart? There are lots of guys we can discuss. My point is, if you do see any of them as better than Hogan, we have more in common than you think. In praise of Hogan, he did have some great interviews and people can make dollars and cents arguments with Austin all the want, but Hogan created the template for Austin to be successful. He's the greatest pro wrestling star of our generation. Now, I'm throwing that out the window to answer the question posed in the thread, which was who was the better *in-ring* performer. The question was not raised of who was the bigger star. There is a difference. It is possible to decouple the points for the purposes of discussion and still acknowledge them as being interdependent. And I do consider all of those things that you mentioned to be extremely important. But crowd reaction is already built in for Hogan matches. Crowd reaction is not the result of anything he did bell to bell. He had it no matter what he did. That's a credit to his star quality. That is not at all in any way a credit to his in-ring ability. If someone could point to examples of Hogan taking a crowd that had been burned out after a long show and bringing them back to life by working a smart match, or taking a crowd whose booing/cheering was not aligned with the booking goals and steering the ship in the right direction, or investing a crowd in a match they didn't care that much about to begin with and having them rocking in the aisles by the end, I would consider all of those huge positives for Hogan, and that does absolutely fall under in-ring ability for me. I can point to Flair doing all of those things at various points. I'm not saying Hogan never did them, but I can't think of them. My point is that Hogan's popularity, and the heat in his matches, was incidental to his ring work. It was not the result of his ring work. While Hogan had all of those things laid out for him nicely in advance - well before he even came through the curtain - in most cases, Cena is fighting from behind to have a good match because his programs are so poorly booked most of the time. In a way, I consider that he has ever had any great matches an overcoming of the odds, because it's rare that he gets the same booking tricks and protection that top guys in WWE have historically received.
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Gene goes to find Hogan one more time to see if he's going to face Ric Flair. Hogan says Thunder In Paradise will take care of itself and that he's ready to take on Flair. He says it's up to the Hulkamaniacs to let him know if they want him to come back. Unbelievable, they use this as an opportunity to do a HOTLINE VOTE on whether he should return. Gene is so sleazy.
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The Nastys do a promo at MGM about the upcoming Clash on "the streets", and by "the streets" I mean a 90s porn-looking soundstage. Kidding aside, the Nastys do have a reason to feel robbed based on how Slamboree went.
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JIP 9 minutes in at Mid South Coliseum. Lawler and Jarrett are now teaming like nothing ever happened just a few weeks back. This is the worst booking year for Memphis so far, but this is a few minutes of good wrestling. Notable for Scott Bowden, at this time a referee, turning on Lawler, then rolling Gilbert on top of him for the pin.
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Joined in progress. Warlord is at ringside and hits Konnan with some really weak chairshots. Bad wrestling, but the crowd is really into it. The ring fills and a bloody Jake gets his head shaved based on the match stipulation, and it's a wild visual. I read once that he got a $25,000 advance to do this. I don't know if that's true or not.
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As ... awkward ... as Mascara Sagrada is, he is the glue of this match. Because the rudos are all competing with each other to see who can make him look best. Psicosis does it by taking crazy bumps to the floor. Parka does it by feeding him comedy. Every exchange with him is weirdly intriguing. The first fall is a pretty chaotic brawl, but things settle down a little in the second fall. Perro is SO over and looks good. La Parka/Lizmark exchanges are awesome too. Parka faking the groin shot after the tilt-a-whirl backbreaker was amusing. Rudo infighting with Satanico and Black Cat in the third fall was great. Black Cat gets triple-teamed in the post-match for his troubles. Post-match, Los Gringos Locos try getting involved, but are held off by Perro and friends. I've noticed that you mostly get the same thing from Santo in these matches. He comes in, hits his spots, is never put in a position to look vulnerable and stays on the outside most of the time. A little disjointed, but a superbly entertaining match that really captured the essence of this time period very well.
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Last few minutes. Peaches pins the Sandman, and now he has to take six Singapore cane shots. Woman cuts off Peaches after three cane shots by throwing powder in her eyes, and Sandman grabs the cane and gives Cairo multiple shots across the head. Woman even gets in a few shots of her own. This ECW group is starting to stand out.
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Paul E. does a big hype job for Sabu/Scorpio having their first ECW match on June 3 and we get a good Sabu highlight reel. He then switches his focus to the Funks teaming against Public Enemy. Then, we cut to a Terry Funk promo covered in blood. Something on Funk promos during this time always seems slightly off, but his delivery is good.
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