Loss
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We get the first tease of the triple threat feud between the Bodies, R & Rs and Stud Stable. The Stud Stable were scheduled to face the Heavenly Bodies, and Cornette suggests calling off the match since there's no point now. They get in a few subtle digs at the Stable only being regional stars and the Stable responds by saying they still want to have the match to determine contenders. Entertaining stuff. Jim Cornette, Dutch Mantell and Robert Fuller arguing can't help but be amusing. -
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Koko shows up in the studio to take exception to Jerry Lawler knocking the WWF. He praises Jeff Jarrett for at least buying a ticket and challenging Bret, while Lawler would rather take cheapshots from the sidelines. Hey, he's got a point. He says if Lawler is going to talk trash, he should come out now and do so to Koko. Lawler says if he wanted to be in the WWF, he could be there. Things get heated and they have a really good pull-apart brawl. What I love about this is that they didn't overly heel Koko in all of this. It gave it some depth. Probably the best thing Koko was part of after the mid 80s.
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Well, the whole time he's selling, Luger didn't get in any offense. Luger was out to do new highspots, so it felt like a disconnect. Both guys were working different matches.
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They put over how frequently Bret is defending the title. They are refocusing on Flair challenging Bret on house shows. Gene has dinner with Flair at a nice restaurant to discuss his future plans. I love simple stuff like this, and Flair is much more comfortable in this setting than he normally felt in WWF-style overproduced segments. He's great at declaring himself better at his opponent while at the same time putting over his opponent's accomplishments. We close out with a montage of the vignettes that are a few years old at this point of Mr. Perfect playing various sports perfectly.
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Here's Akiyama, who barely has his feet wet in wrestling, competing in the tag league finals with the biggest stars in the company. The way he interacts with Misawa and Kawada reminds me in some ways of Hansen and Destroyer working the headscissors in '75, although it's not as focused as that was. Misawa and Kawada sell quite a bit for him. This isn't a bad match, but as tag league finals go, it's obviously the worst from a yearbook so far. (Consider the competition.) In spite of that, it's an interesting look at all four of these guys finding their way post-Jumbo and I'm glad it made the set.
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A few more things may pop up, but likely not very much. That's not so much a statement on the weakness of the run as it is that the NWA TV format at the time was pretty bad compared to what we were used to and rarely featured good matches.
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Austin talk moved here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=14231
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The Flair/Windham TV draw is awesome, just not part of the same time frame we are discussing. It was in 1987. We were talking about 1988, when he was a heel U.S. champ that was a member of the Four Horsemen.
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This was really great! This is a nice companion and lead-in for the 1/15 match where Kansai was in instead of Fukuoka. This match doesn't quite have the same action level as 1/15 (although it's close), but probably does have a better storyline. Fukuoka takes a beating and the layout was designed to get her over and make her stand out. Ozaki is so good at getting over the big picture story in matches like this. Hotta as the bully for an eager-to-prove-herself Fukuoka makes for a really awesome dynamic. Takako was probably better on 1/15 if only because she was more vital there. Here, she stays a little in the background and is there more to keep the action moving, but she does a good job. While this isn't an interpromotional match, I guess Dream Rush really lit a fire under everyone in both groups, because while there are some great matches before, it's difficult to compare the energy level here to the energy level in JWP just a month before.
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I was focusing specifically on matches from when he was a heel during that run. So April 1988 through the end of the year. Taking the larger picture into account, I do agree with you. There are things from Windham I do like at that time. I enjoyed the Sting and Bigelow matches too, but I also think they were both a step down from what they could have been, and not as good as people expected them to be at the time. I would say the Luger match at Chi-Town exceeded expectations in some ways, and fell short in others. Such an odd match, because Luger gave a terrific and inspired individual performance, but Windham's selling of his broken hand took it down a little. Still, that match is really fun. The biggest strength of that run is that it's probably the only time Barry was a star on par with Sting and Luger. His comebacks, while filled with good matches, had him in more of a "good hand", Arn Anderson-type role. 1988 was his chance at stardom. I don't really blame him 100% for it falling apart, as WCW was terribly mismanaged from the top in '89 and lost some key talent at what seemed like an awful time. Flair turning babyface should have been the program to finally put Windham over the top, but he was out of the company by the time it happened. Hogan/Windham might have worked in the WWF, but there was no reason for them to abandon Hogan/Savage and Hogan/Boss Man, both red hot programs that were drawing big money.
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Re-reading my post makes me look like an asshole. My apologies, that's not what I intended. I still am genuinely curious what people think of the angle now who were vocal early on, but that post reads like I only want that so I can claim victory or something. Doesn't read well. That out of the way, I think what we've learned from this is that a true turnaround that has lasting impact is going to require more than some great ideas, the emergence of a new star or a hot angle. It's going to require a change to the infrastructure of the creative team. Until they start mapping out the end result of where they want to be in 3 months, 6 months and 12 months, and until they start picking key guys in the midcard to protect for eventual pushes, these angles are always destined to fail, no matter how much promise they show at the beginning. I don't think the Punk angle lost its way because of politics or a desire to make Punk look bad. I won't be naive and say politics haven't impacted this angle at all, as I suspect they probably have, just like they do most things. But I don't think that was the driving force. I think the key issue is that the creative model in WWE is built on booking on the fly with no real long term planning or patience. They're overly reactive to week-to-week ratings and they aren't proactive enough. We could come up with great ideas that would get people interested forever, but they aren't going to work unless they're mapped out in advance with enough flexibility to allow for unforeseen things while still staying on course. It requires a re-think of how WWE puts together programs, and they simply aren't there.
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November: #1 - Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs Mayumi Ozaki & Dynamite Kansai (AJW Dream Rush 11/26/92) ***** #2 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs Kenta Kobashi & Giant Baba (AJPW 11/27/92) ****1/2 #3 - Akira Hokuto vs Kyoko Inoue (AJW Dream Rush 11/26/92) ****1/2 #4 - Bull Nakano vs Aja Kong (AJW Dream Rush 11/26/92) ****1/4 #5 - Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs Debbie Malenko & Sakie Hasegawa (AJW 11/02/92) **** #6 - Aja Kong & Kyoko Inoue vs Bull Nakano & Akira Hokuto (AJW 11/02/92) **** #7 - Genichiro Tenryu, Takashi Ishikawa & Koki Kitahara vs Shiro Koshinaka, Kengo Kimura & Masayo Aoyagi (NJPW 11/23/92) ***3/4 #8 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs Steve Williams & Terry Gordy (AJPW 11/30/92) ***3/4 #9 - Vader vs Dustin Rhodes (WCW Saturday Night 11/21/92) ***1/2 #10 - Rick Rude vs Barry Windham (WCW Saturday Night 11/07/92) ***1/2 #11 - Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels (WWF Survivor Series 11/25/92) *** #12 - Shawn Michaels vs Marty Jannetty (WWF Providence, RI 11/27/92) ***
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Great drama with the finish. These two teams usually match up well. I like the January '93 match way better, but this is a really good match too. The layout seemed designed to put Kawada over strong. Misawa "saving" Kawada by neutralizing Gordy reminded me of the Misawa/Akiyama dynamic in '96.
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I understand that. I think because some were so defensive of giving it time and criticized others who said it was obvious that this wasn't going anywhere (I don't include you in this category), there's a desire to see some of those people come back here and state what they think of it now. Not doing so, whether intentional or not, comes across as being afraid to admit to being wrong.
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This kinda crosses over into MMA a little I suppose, but I feel like I have been told I am supposed to care about every little move Brock Lesnar makes for the better part of a decade, and I never did. I never understood his appeal in wrestling, and I feel like he has gotten a disproportionate amount of attention from the hardcores because of TOO MUCH COVERAGE in the WON. During his WWE run, he came in and was pushed to the top right away for reasons I never really understood, and he has been out of wrestling for seven years, yet his name and WWE run have been discussed in some fashion in what seems like almost every WON since. When Dave starts in on Lesnar, that's always my clue that I've encountered a skippable section of the WON. When Lesnar is around, he dominates conversation, and when he's not around, he is talked about far more than anyone else who is not around. I just never cared and never understood what made him special.
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No one is happy that the angle isn't working. It's more a case of getting those who have a blind spot when it comes to Punk to admit it. Instead, people just stopped talking about it. I do agree that some stuff, like Dave saying every veteran wrestler except Bret and Austin doesn't hold Punk in high regard, is over the top, and there's something more there that doesn't quite add up. But this angle hasn't been interesting for a long time.
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Wild brawl. I'm not crazy about Cornette being pushed so strong throughout this match, but even factoring that in, this is still has its moments. I think the Rock & Rolls are much better than the Bodies though, if only because their selling is better than the Bodies' feeding. I will never fault a wrestler putting their hands up before a chair shot, but these are some really obvious hands-up shots. Also, not sure what's up with the double dropkick getting a one count. The Bodies end up winning the match and tag titles, making the third title change in three days.
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I agree. If Rock was having a match, there would be zero ambiguity. He wouldn't be "returning to action", he'd be "returning to the ring".
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Barry was absolutely an underachiever. Had he lived up to his talent, he'd be remembered as the top wrestler of his generation and possibly the greatest American-born wrestler of all time. Well, the thing about Pillman/Windham is that it's a sub-10 minute match. It was never really pimped to be a ***** match by anyone. It was always pointed to as a really fun match considering the time constraints, and a good use of the gimmick. The best Windham/Pillman happened on the 04/06/91 episode of Pro, and the match was laid out in a way to make Pillman look really good. SuperBrawl II is a great PPV. I'd even put it ahead of Bash '89 as an overall show. I think from a purely in-ring perspective, it's the best PPV ever. I also happen to think this is the best match of the night. Pillman/Liger I can understand being wowed by. I don't agree with the opinion that it's the better match, but I understand it. It's more different for the time. '92 he was good, but not way better than anyone surrounding him. '91 I thought Pillman and Windham had the best stuff of the match. The Sid/Pillman spot gets remembered because it's the finish, but there's way more to the match than that. Bash '92 was dull, but consider the context. Watts was trying to change the wrestling style in WCW. The feeling was that wrestling had lost its way and that they needed to re-educate the audience that holds and matwork mattered and were more important. It was known at the time that it would take a while for this approach to pay off, but it was necessary, because the constant top this mentality had its limits. In hindsight, he was right, and all of wrestling would be better off now if holds mattered. Anyway, Vader/Sting is the best match of the show, but I thought the Windham/Dustin vs Austin/Rude tag was the highlight of the tournament, to a point where it surprised me how much better it was than I remembered when I watched it recently.
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