Loss

On the day it happened? Most matches that have aired on TV in history are in the can. 99% of all matches from Japan or Mexico he has ever seen were taped in advance. I know what he meant, but I think the point still stands, in the sense that you can't make a statement like that and imply some type of magical cutoff. Yes, I agree that the historical context always needs to be considered when watching any match, but it is a credit if a match holds up over a long period of time. Music critics make lists sometimes of stuff that sounds good now (not necessarily what was best *then*), so this isn't unique to wrestling.

Pretty pathetic. If he wasn't a star on the level of Ric Flair, he'd be blacklisted from wrestling.

I actually laughed at that line, I'm ashamed to say. But yeah, interesting how far we have progressed in 17 years. If a pro wrestler said something like that publicly now, there would be controversy over it.

I think the more likely scenario is that the McMahon family is divided these days, and Shane and Linda were close, and now that she's out of the company, he has no one else on his side.

http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/snanemcmahontodepartWWE Fascinating. There has to be more to this. I know it was for different reasons, but it's interesting that two McMahons are no longer part of the company. Looks like it's just Vince and Stephanie now (not counting HHH and Marisa).

Pat Patterson was a source. Dave has mentioned many conversations they've had about various things through the years, most notably Patterson not expecting Flair/Hogan to do huge business because Flair was new to the WWF audience.

Just like people say they're turned off by negative campaigning in politics, but it usually works.

I have also heard stories about Tony Goldwyn dealing with some hostile people on the streets after Ghost.

Flair's commentary is one of the best parts. "Look at 'em, they're laughing at me. They're making fun of me."

Speaking of that, I've always found it funny when Dave gets so angry when dated pop culture references are made on wrestling shows. He takes it too far sometimes. Remember when he got upset because Nash mentioned Lee Harvey Oswald, and said no one would get it?

I understand it was for fun. But while he says Hall was not under contract to WCW at the time, Foley also wasn't wrestling at the time. Was his plan to bring him out of retirement?

Wrestling is blatantly fake, people trick themselves into believing that what they're seeing is real. There are a shitload of people who are worked into getting angrier at heels who are great at their job than those who are merely good. People pick fights with wrestlers. Do you still not see the correlation? I will also add that part of the wrestler attacks may be *because* they see it as fake, not because they're worked up. In many of those old-time stories, some drunk idiot was out to prove that those tough guys weren't so tough after all.

He made his point clearly a while back. People know something to be true, but aren't above being worked into a frenzy because they're caught up in the moment. This is not different from watching a movie and getting angry at the villain. I'm sure your response to that is that you don't see people attacking the actor in public, and that's true, but there isn't going to be an exact comparison, because wrestling is wrestling and everything else is everything else.

The thing is, it's not better than what happened. The real invasion didn't really capture the essence of WWF vs WCW, but it did give us really good feuds in Austin/Angle and Jericho/Rock, and the initial fan response to RVD was fun. This takes away the good matches, and uses guys not associated with WCW. Come on, he can't even fantasy book Hogan, Hall, and Nash to do anything worthwhile? Just the idea of Kurt Angle against Rick Steiner, Hogan being wasted in a midcard feud with Dusty Rhodes, and Terry Funk getting a top-of-the-card push should be enough to totally discount this (not to mention headlining Wrestlemania with Austin against Foley, a true WWF match that had been done plenty of times before).

According to PWInsider, Flair is once again engaged. It's really comical at this point. Whatever happens, he's asked for it.

The Hooters analogy is actually spot on.

Did you see it from TV, Showa, or Sky-A Classics? Or was it another source? I'm asking so I would know where not to look for the complete version.

2/7/83 WWF Jr. Title: Tiger Mask vs. Black Tiger – If full version exists Are you recommending it because you've seen it, or because you've seen it listed? If you've seen it, you should know if a full version exists, shouldn't you?

My belief is still that they don't think it's real now, and most people never thought it was real. Even the knife-wielding types I think are people who are just guilty of getting caught up in the moment. I would say almost everyone in the world has always known wrestling is fake. But there have been debates on what parts of it are real and what parts of it are fake. Some fans, for example, may think that the matches are fake, but that the guys really hate each other. Or they may be convinced that something they saw had to be real because it looked so painful. I've had casual fans tell me they think ladder matches are real because no one could fall like that without hurting themselves. Just because you're capable of being worked doesn't mean you believe everything you see. Yes, 99% of wrestling fans know it's fake. But I would also say 99% of wrestling fans (most of us at this board included) don't know the extent to which it's fake.

It was a promo done for a local market, and no known footage exists of it.

Neither is a HOF guy, and I think I've learned from getting in the middle of debates previous years comparing two non-HOF candidates that it's just not worth it. But I will say if Dave starts questioning John Cena's HOF credentials when he's eligible, we should remember how pro-Edge he is now.