Loss

If you type apostrophes and dashes in Word and paste them into the box instead of typing them directly in the box, that's what causes the error.

The Authority should suspend him for some outlandish reason. It's easy heat, a logical storyline explanation and gets him even more over. They can go all Austin and have him do a quick run-in spot where he takes no bumps if they want to do that. So many ways around it if they want.

Shoe, I know you're still going through everything, but what would you consider Lawler's prime to be? I agree with the general point often made that his post-prime is a huge positive in his favor, but I just wonder what are considered his best years. Would it be 1982-1988? Not to say he dropped off significantly after that or anything, but what years of his career does he have the most high-end matches available? What years would you say he was in the top handful of wrestlers in the business -- performing at a level as good as the best stuff coming out of Japan, Mexico or Europe, or from his American peers?

I think the winning spot carries a little more weight this year than it has in a long time because there is once again only one world championship. They can still get screwy between now and Mania, but I think the likelihood of the guy who will headline the show winning the Rumble is higher than it has been in a long time.

Someone who finds WWF cage matches more tolerable than I do can say if they feel like the match pushed that particular style of match as far as it could go.

That it's boring and repetitive. That they spend too much time climbing. I don't even think it's good.

No doubt. We are all shaped by our personal tastes and biases, which is what makes the debate interesting. We'll never get to a right answer on anyone, and there is no right answer. But I think it's a good thing for Lawler to be scrutinized at this level simply because it has never really happened in the same way that it has for most others who have had the GOAT tag thrown their way. If he can survive it and still come out looking just as good or better than he ever did, that's a big positive. I've seen ohtani's jacket make the point before that he doesn't think people are interested in critically evaluating some of the newer favorites, but I think that's a process. The first step is that people see the wrestler in a new light and go through the honeymoon. Eventually, things get real. I don't think it's that no one is interested in critically discussing El Dandy, for example. I just think most of us are not at the point yet where we feel comfortable doing so.

I agree with Ditch's point. No reason to Dave bash. Not to say anyone is, just agreeing with that sentiment. We give him a hard time about some of his ratings, but we've all had nutty opinions on matches at times, and I think I agree with him just as often as I disagree with him, especially on older matches.

For the purposes of the archives, do you all think they'll consider big shows prior to Starrcade '87 as pay-per-views? Do you think they will consider the first Wrestlemania as a pay-per-view? I was also thinking about the Crockett Cup and Bash shows. I can't see them just putting up the THE release, especially since they will do the PPV version of every other show. And based on the never-before-seen footage they have released from the JCP days, I have a feeling Crockett taped every Bash house show from 1986-1988 in full. And wouldn't it be awesome if they considered the Crockett Cup a pay-per-view and happened to post unedited shows of both nights for all three years. Some people also think that for the purpose of the on-demand archive, they'll treat Clashes as pay-per-views too.

We've seen a chain used as a KO finish in Memphis more times than I could count.

"Lies" that no one has even made an attempt to counter, despite lots of big Lawler fans popping in the thread.

Hmmm ... how about Dick Slater?

I can't think of any average wrestlers. I'm trying. This is the downside of being too opinionated for your own good.

This is a great pick too.

Buddy Rose vs Jay Youngblood (PNW 01/03/81) This was an incredible match. Three days into 1981, and this just might be the best thing I see all year. Buddy starts by going after Youngblood's arm, which sets the tone for the entire match, as they keep going after each other's arms to shift momentum. I love the "submission" finish of Youngblood just pounding Buddy's arm until he can't take anymore and gives up. I guess you could argue that it's a bit lame that punching an arm while applying an armbar was enough to end a fall, but it was built up so much that I didn't have a problem with it. Jay potatoes Buddy at one point and he starts bleeding from the mouth. Buddy is the master. He does so many interesting things - both in selling and working arm holds - and leads the way in crafting a brilliant match. The story here is that Buddy was the early aggressor and picked a fight that he looked to have under control in the beginning until he got too much of his own medicine. Some may complain about the repetitive nature of this, but I really thought this worked. Buddy avoids the humiliation of tapping in two straight falls by punching the ref in the face to get himself DQ'd. Awesome! Great, great match.

Also, if you really think anyone isn't going to pick up a set because some dude on a message board raised what he thought were some fair criticisms, then you must really think you've got a lot of spineless jellyfish who can't think for themselves on this board. (1) You can criticize something and still really like it. (2) No one is sacred and above criticism. (3) If I see the debates over a guy, I'm more likely to pick up the matches myself and see where I stand. I would assume most are the same way. Saying that my criticisms should be "ignored" comes across as an attempt to stifle debate, and I think you're better than that. I encourage people to check out the footage for themselves and if they think I'm wrong, tell me so. Let's make things interesting, and let's let his case be proven instead of just passed down from a mountain top. That's what we're all about here. Jerry Lawler does rule, but he's also flawed, just like every wrestler ever. To point out those flaws isn't to say people should run the other way, cover their ears and sing "la la la, I can't hear you".

Misawa vs Kawada from the Super Power Series in '97 was given *****+ and I don't even think it was good, but lots of people like that match, so maybe I'm the odd one out.

Also, El-P, Lawler's no-sell comebacks don't bother me and aren't something I consider a weakness at all. In fact, those fired up comebacks are one of the best parts of his act. I believe in the concept of the adrenaline rush in a wrestling setting. Lawlering up typically isn't like Hoganing up where he takes the other guy's best move and shrugs it off because Jesus-and-America or whatever.

I didn't randomly select Lawler. Nintendo Logic wanted someone to criticize him. So I did it.

Was the Fantastics vs Sheepherders match from Crockett Cup '86 something that he at least saw live in full?

Lawler wrestles like any other nickel-and-dime Southern heel and panders for cheap heat too much instead of presenting himself as a tough guy. On his promos, he buries his opponents instead of selling the match as something people should care about, take seriously and want to see. The routine of hiding a foreign object in the tights is fine as an act, but is beneath someone pushed as the top guy of the promotion. He should stay off the house mic during his matches too. I love Lawler as a babyface, although even there, there are problems because it's rare that you see some great wrestling moves or that he takes the match to the mat. Punch, punch, punch, punch, punch ... as good as they are and as many variations as he has, it can get monotonous. There are exceptions to that, and someone could respond and name matches, but they are pointing out an exception, not something Lawler did routinely. He's a great brawler. He has taken some huge bumps, but he's not a guy who takes big bumps in regular matches. I don't mean something crazy or exceptional like the Jos Le Duc bump ... I mean regular bumping in the confines of a traditional wrestling match where he feeds a babyface offense. He's a guy who I've liked less the more I've seen of him, although in terms of presenting himself as a top guy outside the ring, he's nearly peerless. But a GOAT contender shouldn't be such a schtick guy, and should be someone who works smart *and* hard. Lawler tends to do the former and not the latter. Not nearly enough steak with the sizzle.

Yeah, a match to determine who will face the Undertaker at Wrestlemania should never happen again.

I added a ton of 1981 matches. I'll watch as many as I can find online: Buddy Rose vs. Jay Youngblood (1/3/81) Buddy Rose, Rip Oliver & The Destroyer vs. Jay Youngblood Sr., Jay Youngblood Jr. & Joe Lightfoot (1/10/81) Johnny Saint vs. Steve Grey (1/13/81) Johnny Saint vs. Jackie Robinson (1/13/81) Jim Breaks vs. Johnny Cortez (2/2/81) Marty Jones vs. Marc Rocco (2/11/81) Johnny Saint vs. Steve Grey (2/11/81) Rip Oliver vs. Jay Youngblood (2/14/81) Dalibar Singh vs Ray Steele (2/24/81) Mimi Hagiwara vs. Yumi Ikeshita (2/25/81) Jon Cortez vs. Bobby Barnes (3/31/81) Buddy Rose vs. Jay Youngblood (4/11/81) Greg Valentine vs. Sweet Ebony Diamond (4/29/81) Wahoo McDaniel & Ivan Putski vs. Eddy Mansfield & Tank Patton (April 1981) Jim Breaks vs. Steve Grey (5/12/81) Buddy Rose vs. Tough Tony Borne (5/30/81) Buddy Rose vs. Matt Borne (6/6/81) Brad Armstrong, Ken Lucas & Mr. Olympia vs. Ron Bass, Jimmy Golden & Stan Lane (6/13/81) Terry Rudge vs. Alan Kilby (6/18/81) Buddy Rose & Rip Oliver vs. Roddy Piper & Steve Regal (6/20/81) Mr. Olympia vs. Mike Jackson (7/4/81) Dory Funk Jr. vs. Mike Graham (7/8/81) Marc Rocco vs. King Ben (7/15/81) John Naylor vs. Bernie Wright (7/15/81) Steve Grey vs. Jon Cortez (7/27/81) Tully Blanchard & Gino Hernandez vs. Terry Allen & Scott Casey (July 1981) Buddy Rose vs. Steve Regal (8/15/81) Jerry Brisco vs. Les Thornton (8/19/81) Tully Blanchard vs. Mike Graham (9/9/81) Buddy Rose, Kim Song & Stan Stasiak vs. Matt Borne, Steve Regal & King Parsons (9/19/81) Marc Rocco vs. Chris Adams (9/29/81) Nick Bockwinkel vs. Manny Fernandez (September 1981) Buddy Rose & Stan Stasiak vs. Matt Borne & Steve Regal (10/3/81) Sgt. Slaughter vs. Jay Youngblood (10/4/81) Buddy Rose & Mike Masters vs. Matt Borne & Steve Regal (10/21/81) Buddy Rose vs. Steve Regal (10/24/81) Buddy Rose vs. King Parsons (11/7/81) Buzz Sawyer vs. Jack Brisco (11/18/81) Dynamite Kid vs. Marc Rocco (11/18/81) Johnny Saint vs. Vic Faulkner (11/18/81) Sid Cooper vs. Steve Grey (11/30/81) Buddy Rose & Matt Borne vs. King Parsons & Rocky Johnson (12/5/81)

That's not really a defense of the match. Respond to the criticisms and explain why we're wrong if this is how you feel.