Loss

The HTM story isn't just something from HTM. There weren't specifics in the WON at the time, but it was alluded to.

DiBiase was hyped in such a major way with such an awesome gimmick. He also went right into the main event picture, so it's clear that they saw his signing as a big deal.

I suspect Wrestlemania IV still would have ended with DiBiase winning the title in the finals of the tournament over Savage. Hogan and Andre may have still had the non-finish to keep either of them from having to lose. Savage and DiBiase probably would have feuded throughout summer just as they did, with DiBiase eventually dropping the title to Hogan, possibly sooner than Savage did.

Also, what does dressing up in a Halloween costume have to do with anything? Jack Nicholson is not a popular Halloween costume either. Is Hulk Hogan a bigger star?

Where is this idea that Hogan draws television ratings coming from? What about TNA?

I'll take this in a slightly different direction and say while I do think Eric Bischoff had a productive run on WWE TV, they could have really done so much more with him than they did, even after the Invasion was played out. The guy was automatically hated by the fan base, a feud with Vince where he tried to steal the company was a given, and so on. But instead of putting as much heat on him as possible, they just made him a generic heel figurehead. A really good generic heel figurehead, but a generic heel figurehead nonetheless. That may be the bigger missed opportunity.

That does help, and I wouldn't disagree with any of the names mentioned. Richard Simmons seems like a great pick. I had the perception for some reason that people in this thread saw him as an Ali/Jordan type. I probably understated his place in history. I mean, yes, more people probably have heard the song "Rico Suave" than have watched a Hulk Hogan match, but that doesn't mean Gerardo is a bigger pop culture phenomenon than Hulk Hogan. I poorly explained my point.

One thing that may help -- who are some non-wrestling celebrities that you would compare to Hogan in terms of general fame? I'm thinking not even just individual celebrities, but pop culture concepts that were hugely popular, be it for a short period of time or something that endured. I agree that Hogan probably has a more recognizable face than Molly Ringwald simply because he's so distinctive and she's been out of the public eye for so long. But I do think if we were ranking pop culture phenomenons of the 1980s, the Brat Pack would rank well above Hulk Hogan. I hope that clarifies my point.

I understand that. I'm not questioning Hogan's impact on pro wrestling. He can't be touched. I am questioning the level of celebrity he has outside of wrestling, especially relative to other passing fads around the same time as his peak in popularity. Yes, it's much stronger than anyone in wrestling, but he's a footnote in pop culture at best.

I know there's no way to prove any of this, but I'm sorry. I just don't believe that. Wrestling is small, small, small potatoes.

Yes. I'd be really shocked if that was true. The John Hughes movies are iconic and The Breakfast Club is on cable almost ALL THE TIME.

Please do not discuss bootleg compilations or seek out wrestling footage here. Thank you.

We try not to discuss that here if you don't mind.

"Where's the Beef?" lasted one summer if memory serves. Hogan's been doing (bad) movies/TV for 30 years. I agree that his importance shouldn't be overstated, but people know who he is. Comparing him to someone who's only notoriety came from a 30 year old fast food commercial is equally disingenuous. Well, you knew who I was talking about right away and I did say Hogan is probably more recognizable than her. But I don't think it's a significant difference. Molly Ringwald hasn't had the longevity of Hulk Hogan as far as movies and television, but are you going to tell me that Hogan is the person more people know between the two? Pro wrestling is not something most people think or care about. Hulk Hogan is the most famous wrestler, but he's a big fish in a small pond. Cultural icons are Abraham Lincoln, The Beatles, Michael Jackson, Madonna, Arnold Schwarzeneger, Oprah Winfrey, etc. Cathy Griffin had a show called "My Life on the D-List" on Bravo. I'm not sure Hulk Hogan is more recognizable than Cathy Griffin. At best, he's part of that same "Oh yeah, I remember him" sideshow. The same thing happened when WWE hired Freddie Prinze Jr. for Creative, and Dave kept gushing over how "mainstream" he was. He was a name people knew yes, but again, it's overstating it. K-Fed was notorious for a very short period of time. Probably more of a "cultural icon" than Hogan. Donald Trump is definitely more famous than Hogan. Both were on WWE TV in 2007. Hulk Hogan may not be one of the 2000 most recognizable figures in American pop culture.

Yes, absolutely. But he's not a cultural icon in any shape or form. He's a sideshow name at best. I don't think he was ever "ingrained into popular culture", as was mentioned earlier in the thread. He was huge by wrestling standards, but not by pop culture standards.

I would say it means about as much to your average person on the street, yes. He's not Michael Jackson, Tom Cruise, Oprah Winfrey or Arnold Schwarzeneger. He's an E-list celebrity at best.

Running an invasion angle if TNA was purchased, or even acknowledging on the air that they ever existed, would be a little silly. I'm also not sure what in their tape library is so valuable.

Hogan is the guy who is synonymous with wrestling for sure, but let's not overstate his place in pop culture. He's probably just slightly above the "Where's The Beef?" lady in stature.

It was pretty public at one point that Nash was dating one of the Nitro Girls, to the point that he would make jokes on the air that he was going to "eat a little Korean" after the show. That's obviously between him and his wife so I'm not saying that from a place of judgment, but I just remember all of that fairly well, so it surprises me that they are still together. Jimmy Garvin and Precious.

I actually thought Davey Boy was the weakest guy in this match. He just went from move to move and didn't sell much when he was hit with something and was physically awkward in a way he normally isn't. I enjoyed Kobashi more than anyone else in this one.

Jumbo Tsuruta, Tiger Mask & Kabuki vs Genichiro Tenryu, Toshiaki Kawada & Ricky Fuyuki (AJPW 01/11/90) I think I liked this better than either of the Jumbo/Tenryu tags from January that made the set. Cool to see Tenryu and Kabuki throw stiff shots at each other, and also to see a primitive version of Misawa vs Kawada in the context of the Jumbo/Tenryu feud. The 1990 tags really made this feud seem passé, but it's a lot more relevant here. It's not really a great match, but it has the excitement, energy, stiffness and heat you want from this feud.

Ric Flair vs Bobby Eaton (NWA Main Event 01/07/90) Click here for my thoughts.

I think this is one that I like even more this time around. I've actually re-watched it a few times since originally posting in this thread. I think this match more than anything else in 1990 shows the lost potential of a babyface Ric Flair. There was absolutely no reason to turn him. Something we've seen play out in wrestling many times is that when established headliners get to a certain point where they can still contribute but have a really strong resume behind them, they turn babyface because fans see them as "theirs" and just don't want to boo them anymore, regardless of how they made their name. By 1989, Flair had entered that point in his career. If anything, I think the heel turn decreased his relevance. I don't know that he was the guy WCW needed to build around anymore, but he was absolutely a guy that was going to mean a lot more in the big picture as a top babyface than he would as a top heel. I also think he would have been more effective in passing the torch to a new top heel than he would have been in passing the torch to a new top babyface. It doesn't mean that he can't effectively portray a heel, but it does mean that it's not the best role for him at this stage of his career. People wanted to cheer him. As for Bobby Eaton, what else can really be said? This match shows that if presented properly, there's no reason he couldn't have been a solid, upper midcard singles heel, especially with Cornette in his corner. This is the case for a lot of my favorite matches for the decade (even though this was taped on December 14 in Peoria I've since learned), but it's especially true of this match -- it's more an interesting glimpse of what might have been than it is a promise of something awesome fully realized. Ric's decade was all over the place and he came out of the 90s a broken man, but this match proves that it didn't have to be that way. It could have been so beautiful, as an 80s pop singer with the same first name as his third wife once said.

Brian Pillman vs Cactus Jack (NWA Worldwide 01/06/90) Another match that just didn't do much for me. Cactus took a few nice bumps and Pillman was a good opponent to start getting him over, but there's nothing special about this. More interesting than good.