Loss

If you want to criticize WCW fans, point out the confusion and absurdity of wearing an NWO t-shirt and booing Hogan and the Outsiders. Make up your damn minds!

I need screenshot examples, because WCW tended to just zoom in on screaming frat boys wearing NWO t-shirts and holding up four fingers from everything I've seen.

I agree with Will on the balance. Everything in life in moderation. While we aren't here to just declare everything fucking awesome or sucky and walk away, pro wrestling being an entirely academic experience is majorly missing the point too. It's a balancing act, just like anything else. When in doubt, have fun.

Expectation is the creator of disappointment. We need to come up with a "Puroresu Primer" comp and have Will make it so we have something to point people to. Accessible wrestling that samples all the styles and gives lots of stuff worth seeing without giving away the store right away.

That's the one! Thanks for finding and posting.

Yes, I think it's also an interesting piece of sexism that Robin Thicke isn't sharing in the criticism over the anal sex pantomime.

Also, even if it was true, wrestlers call matches in the ring all the time, so I don't see what the big deal is.

I'm surprised you only see Psicosis as a decent hand. He strikes me as someone who would either be in excellent workers or strong hands.

Yes, but that Lance is still willing to criticize him is good, not bad. Too many people in wrestling already make excuses for people who have treated them well.

I remember tomk making an interesting argument that Ted Turner actually won the war once. Need to dig for the post.

WWE needs to repackage one of the divas with a haircut where she starts sticking out her tongue and twerking.

I fully agree with Jerry, by the way. Vince's greatest strength is taking a business that historically was run locally and lived and died on the gate and expanding it nationally and diversifying revenue streams with merchandise and pay-per-view. As has been said by others, he ultimately recognized that pay-per-view was a way to draw a huge house in an arena that had unlimited seating. Action figures, t-shirts, videotapes and a house magazine were also a breakthrough. I agree also that Vince was more mythmaker than storyteller, and I think that's a great way to describe him. He isn't peerless when it comes to booking wrestling angles (although I think on his best day, he's not terribly far behind the very best), but that's really secondary. He modeled pro wrestling after Disney.

Hasn't been discussed yet. We will see how much stuff we want to put on, then figure that part out.

2000-2004, yes.

I'd also like some recommendations about how to organize this. I don't think a straight chronological approach is the best approach. I'm thinking something like this. MONDAY NIGHT WARS - Additional Nitro and RAW stuff from 1995-1999 WWF - Bonus TV Matches (Pre-MNW feature TV matches, post-MNW B-show stuff) - Coliseum Video Exclusives - Handheld Matches - PPV Oversights - Additional promos and angles WCW - Bonus TV Matches (B-shows and non-Nitro stuff) - Clash of the Champions Oversights - Handheld Matches - PPV Oversights - Additional promos and angles ECW - TV matches - Fancams - PPV oversights - Additional promos and angles U.S. INDIES - SMW Bonus Matches - Additional Memphis Matches & Angles - Random Indy Stuff ------ LUCHA LIBRE - Bonus matches ------ AROUND THE WORLD - Bonus matches from Australia, Europe, Canada, Puerto Rico, etc ------- THE BIG TWO - All Japan Bonus Matches ** Triple Crown Title Defenses ** Double Tag Title Defenses ** Missed Star Ratings ** Alternate Versions of Matches Already On The Yearbook ** Championship Carnival Revisited ** Real World Tag League Revisited ** Noteworthy - New Japan Bonus Matches ** IWGP Title Defenses ** IWGP Tag Title Defenses ** IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Title Defenses ** Missed Star Ratings ** Alternate Versions of Matches Already On The Yearbook ** G-1 Climax Revisited ** Noteworthy GARBAGE WRESTLING - FMW Bonus Matches - IWA Bonus Matches - W*ING Bonus Matches - BJPW Bonus Matches SHOOT STYLE - RINGS Bonus Matches - UWF 2.0 Bonus Matches - UWFI Bonus Matches - PWFG Bonus Matches - BattlARTS Bonus Matches HIGH FLYING - Michinoku Pro Bonus Matches - Hamada's UWF Bonus Matches - Toryumon Bonus Matches WOMEN IN JAPAN - Interpromotional Feud Bonus Matches (1992-1995) - AJW Bonus Matches (Including the magic of the TV edit for matches already on the yearbook) - JWP Bonus Matches - LLPW Bonus Matches - GAEA Bonus Matches - Jd' Bonus Matches INDIES IN JAPAN - WAR Bonus Matches - SWS Bonus Matches - Special Events & Memorials

This will be whatever set we put out after we release 1999 to close any gaps. I will share the list as we have it now and you can of course post other things here as well.

Does anyone think of Shane Douglas as a star?

I thought we might see a thread bump here today. The PTC is involved, so there are parallels.

Yes to both of these. I might also add Scott Hall and Kevin Nash to this list. I do think their jumping helped WCW turn business around, but they weren't the engine that kept it going. That was Hogan. Scott Hall is looked back on as a headliner when even in the WWF he was mostly an upper midcarder. We're a board that tends to be fair to Lex Luger, but you'd probably have a lot of people naming him in this category. Curt Hennig? I'm also wondering if Honky Tonk Man was really this huge draw as IC champ, or if that's just something he's said for so long that we sort of just accept it.

Here's a question I've always wanted to ask. What's the easiest way to figure out who the team captains are in trios matches? Like, are they always introduced in a standard order? I usually just figure it out based on fall finishes, but I'm sure there's a better way.

It's also worth visiting from what I understand. Flair/Kerry is about all I know too, so I'm interested in hearing what else is out there.

NO!

Let's look at other months. This is all of course only based on my own ratings and opinions, but for the purpose of comparison, here's the number of 4*+ matches every month from January 1990 - June 1997. 1990 January - 5 February - 4 March - 1 April - 4 May - 3 June - 6 July - 2 August - 2 September - 3 October - 7 November - 7 December - 3 1991 January - 5 February - 2 March - 5 April - 9 May - 7 June - 2 July - 2 August - 9 September - 3 October - 2 November - 5 December - 7 1992 January - 8 February - 13 March - 2 April - 8 May - 8 June - 7 July - 6 August - 8 September - 2 October - 6 November - 6 December - 5 1993 January - 4 February - 9 March - 6 April - 13 May - 8 June - 10 July - 10 August - 11 September - 2 October - 6 November - 9 December - 8 1994 January - 5 February - 6 March - 7 April - 11 May - 8 June - 6 July - 6 August - 2 September - 2 October - 6 November - 4 December - 6 1995 January - 3 February - 2 March - 9 April - 10 May - 0 June - 10 July - 8 August - 7 September - 4 October - 4 November - 3 December - 2 1996 January - 1 February - 2 March - 4 April - 3 May - 4 June - 6 July - 4 August - 6 September - 9 October - 6 November - 8 December - 8 1997 January - 5 February - 1 March - 6 April - 8 May - 3 June - 4 The months with 10 or more 4* matches were: - February 1992 (13) - April 1993 (13) - June 1993 (10) - July 1993 (10) - August 1993 (11) - April 1994 (11) - June 1995 (10) For purposes of comparison, February 1992 had: #1 - Silver King, El Texano & Gran Hamada vs Negro Casas, Dr Wagner Jr & Rambo (UWA 02/29/92) ***** #2 - Jushin Liger vs Norio Honaga (NJPW 02/08/92) ****1/2 #3 - Jushin Liger vs Pegasus Kid (NJPW 02/10/92) ****1/2 #4 - Barry Windham & Dustin Rhodes vs Steve Austin & Larry Zbyszko (WCW SuperBrawl II 02/29/92) ****1/4 #5 - Silver King, El Texano & Gran Hamada vs Negro Casas, Dr Wagner Jr & Mike Lozansky (UWA 02/16/92) ****1/4 #6 - El Canek vs Dos Caras (UWA 02/02/92) ****1/4 #7 - Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Yusuke Fuke (PWFG 02/24/92) ****1/4 #8 - Hiromitsu Kanehara vs Masakazu Maeda (UWFI 02/29/92) ****1/4 #9 - Doug Furnas & Dan Kroffat vs Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (AJPW 02/22/92) **** #10 - Sting, Dustin Rhodes, Barry Windham & Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude, Arn Anderson, Larry Zbyszko & Bobby Eaton (WCW Saturday Night 02/22/92) **** #11 - Jushin Liger vs Brian Pillman (WCW SuperBrawl II 02/29/92) **** #12 - Jumbo Tsuruta vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 02/27/92) **** #13 - Rick Rude vs Ricky Steamboat (WCW SuperBrawl II 02/29/92) **** April 1993 had: #1 - Akira Hokuto vs Shinobu Kandori (AJW Dreamslam I 04/11/93) ***** #2 - Manami Toyota & Toshiyo Yamada vs Mayumi Ozaki & Dynamite Kansai (AJW Dreamslam II 04/10/93) ****3/4 #3 - Toshiaki Kawada vs Akira Taue (AJPW Championship Carnival 04/12/93) ****1/2 #4 - Bull Nakano vs Devil Masami (JWP 04/18/93) ****1/4 #5 - Sabu vs Lightning Kid (NWA Grand Slam 04/17/93) ****1/4 #6 - Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 04/16/93) **** #7 - Takako Inoue & Kyoko Inoue vs Mayumi Ozaki & Cutie Suzuki (AJW Dreamslam I 04/02/93) **** #8 - Barry Windham vs Steven Regal (WCW Worldwide 04/18/93) **** #9 - Manami Toyota & Yumiko Hotta vs Aja Kong & Kyoko Inoue (AJW 04/24/93) **** #10 - Ultimo Dragoncito & Orito vs Felinito & Ultratumbita (EMLL 04/30/93) **** #11 - Genichiro Tenryu vs Riki Choshu (NJPW 04/06/93) **** #12 - Toshiaki Kawada vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 04/14/93) **** #13 - Ciclon Ramirez & Corazon de Leon & Oro vs Felino & Javier Cruz & Negro Casas (EMLL 04/30/93) **** June 1993 had: #1 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW 06/01/93) ****1/2 #2 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa (AJPW 06/03/93) ****1/4 #3 - Genichiro Tenryu vs Shinya Hashimoto (WAR 06/17/93) ****1/4 #4 - Wild Pegasus vs El Samurai (NJPW Top of the Super Juniors Final 06/14/93) ****1/4 #5 - Riki Choshu & Shinya Hashimoto & Tatsumi Fujinami & Masa Chono & Hiroshi Hase vs Genichiro Tenryu & Ashura Hara & Takashi Ishikawa & Tatsu Goto & Super Strong Machine (NJPW 06/15/93) **** #6 - Hiroshi Hase vs Samson Fuyuki (WAR 06/17/93) **** #7 - Barry Windham vs 2 Cold Scorpio (WCW Clash of the Champions XXIII 06/16/93) **** #8 - Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect (WWF King of the Ring 06/13/93) **** #9 - Marty Jannetty vs Doink the Clown (WWF Monday Night RAW 06/21/93) **** #10 - Bret Hart vs Bam Bam Bigelow (WWF King of the Ring 06/13/93) **** July 1993 had: #1 - Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 07/29/93) ***** #2 - Sakie Hasegawa & Kyoko Inoue & Takako Inoue & Aja Kong vs Mayumi Ozaki & Dynamite Kansai & Hikari Fukuoka & Cutie Suzuki (JWP Thunderqueen 07/31/93) ****3/4 #3 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi (AJPW 07/19/93) ****1/2 #4 - Felino vs Ciclon Ramirez (EMLL 07/09/93) ****1/4 #5 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa (AJPW 07/02/93) ****1/4 #6 - Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW 07/29/93) ****1/4 #7 - Toshiaki Kawada vs Jun Akiyama (AJPW 07/09/93) ****1/4 #8 - Hollywood Blonds vs Arn Anderson & Paul Roma (WCW Beach Blast 07/18/93) **** #9 - Ric Flair & Arn Anderson & Paul Roma vs Hollywood Blonds & Barry Windham (WCW Saturday Night 07/03/93) **** #10 - Great Sasuke & Sato vs Super Delphin & Gran Naniwa (Michinoku Pro 07/26/93) **** August 1993 had: #1 - Aja Kong vs Dynamite Kansai (AJW 08/25/93) ****3/4 #2 - Naoki Sano vs Yoji Anjo (UWFI 08/13/93) ****3/4 #3 - Steve Williams vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW 08/31/93) ****1/2 #4 - Genichiro Tenryu vs Shinya Hashimoto (NJPW G-1 Climax 08/08/93) ****1/4 #5 - Manami Toyota vs Akira Hokuto (AJW 08/21/93) ****1/4 #6 - Doug Furnas & Dan Kroffat vs Kenta Kobashi & Satoru Asako (AJPW 08/20/93) **** #7 - Yoshihiro Takayama vs Gene Lydick (UWFI 08/13/93) **** #8 - Hiroshi Hase vs Shinya Hashimoto (NJPW G-1 Climax 08/03/93) **** #9 - Bret Hart vs Yokozuna (WWF MSG 08/13/93) **** #10 - MS-1 vs Cien Caras (AAA 08/22/93) **** #11 - Akira Hokuto vs Harley Saito (AJW 08/13/93) **** April 1994 had: #1 - Steve Williams vs Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW Championship Carnival 04/16/94) ****1/2 #2 - Chris Candido vs Tracy Smothers (SMW Bluegrass Brawl 04/01/94) ****1/2 #3 - Great Sasuke vs Jinsei Shinzaki (Michinoku Pro 04/29/94) ****1/2 #4 - Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke (NJPW Super J Cup 04/16/94) ****1/2 #5 - Wild Pegasus vs Great Sasuke (NJPW Super J Cup 04/16/94) ****1/4 #6 - Rock & Roll Express vs Heavenly Bodies (SMW Bluegrass Brawl 04/01/94) ****1/4 #7 - Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi (AJPW Championship Carnival 04/10/94) **** #8 - Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (WCW Spring Stampede 04/17/94) **** #9 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama vs Stan Hansen, Giant Baba & Takao Omori (AJPW 04/16/94) **** #10 - Dustin Rhodes vs Bunkhouse Buck (WCW Spring Stampede 04/17/94) **** #11 - Jerry Lawler vs Dream Machine (USWA Mid South Coliseum 04/25/94) **** June 1995 had: #1 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW 06/09/95) ***** #2 - El Hijo del Santo, Octagon, Rey Misterio Jr & La Parka vs Pentagon, Blue Panther, Psicosis & Fuerza Guerrera (AAA 06/18/95) ****3/4 #3 - Manami Toyota vs Aja Kong (AJW 06/27/95) ****1/2 #4 - Yoji Anjo vs Naoki Sano (UWFI 06/18/95) ****1/2 #5 - Volk Han vs Yoshihisa Yammamoto (RINGS 06/17/95) ****1/4 #6 - Shinya Hashimoto & Junji Hirata vs Masa Chono & Hiroyoshi Tenzan (NJPW 06/12/95) ****1/4 #7 - Hayabusa vs Hisakatsu Oya (FMW Korauken Hall 06/27/95) **** #8 - Octagoncito, Mascarita Sagrada, Torerito & Super Munequito vs Espectrito, Espectrito II, La Parkita & Fuercita Guerrera (AAA 06/18/95) **** #9 - Rob Van Dam vs Dan Kroffat (AJPW 06/09/95) **** #10 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Satoru Asako vs Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Tamon Honda (AJPW 06/30/95) ****

Pretty cool match and a nice experiment for a pro-style promotion. FLIK, how far did they run with this? How many more matches did they have under GAEA Kai rules? I'd like to watch them all at some point just to get a complete picture. This is a poor man's version of Lioness Asuka vs Yumiko Hotta from Queendom, but I don't mean that as a dig at all. The laughing on commentary (This aired on a Champ Forum) sort of detracts from the atmosphere, and seeing this and Vader/Shamrock really gives me a greater appreciation of the atmosphere in promotions like RINGS and UWFI. There's a little less brutality and selling than in other matches I've seen in this style, but that could just be a result of low audio. There's also a little pro-style flair in this one that isn't typically in matches worked like this.