Loss
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Jim Ross talks about the Van Hammer Tour '91. Please. He goes out of his way to discredit the music credentials of the Freebirds, while Van Hammer is a much bigger farce and he just takes him at his word. He even compliments his wardrobe. Some journalist. We do get the debut of the word VANTASTIC. I can't help but laugh every time I see this guy. Van Hammer amuses me to no end for some reason. -
Lawler wears the ugliest sweater you will ever see in your life. He wore it in a 1995 interview too and I took a picture at the time because I couldn't believe how hideous it was, and now it's even more amazing that he kept and wore the shirt for at least four years! Jeff Gaylord is back in the territory. Oh joy. Lawler threatens Billy Joe Travis not to get involved in his match with Gaylord, telling him he will throw a fireball at him if he dares interfere.
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The match is non-title, much to Mountie's chagrin. Mountie knows why this isn't a title match, but wants Bret to explain to everyone in the building why exactly this isn't a title match. Bret says he could never give a title match to a jailbird. Jimmy Hart douses Bret with water and then Mountie attacks Bret from behind with the shock stick. This was all so fast and was executed really well. I liked this angle, although I think babyfaces should be willing to make every match a title match.
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Paul Bearer shows off the casket he has prepared just for Hulk Hogan. How nice of him. Undertaker is the guest and comes out of the casket. Undertaker and Bearer have this act down to a science at this point. They did a great job getting Undertaker over as a top guy right out of the gate, and I think they've done a nice job teasing an eventual match throughout the year too.
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Hogan tries to be cool in a major fail, calling Flair "homeboy" and welcoming him to "the hood". He cuts this promo from the gym just after pumping some iron. This is quite the egotistical promo, talking about how he built MSG. He also says he's the only world champion, and that he's waiting on Flair and he's ready to lock up.
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What I kept thinking watching this was how much I wish the "original" JWP could have stayed intact. The style was more mat-based and less flashy than AJW, but I think I prefer it. I don't think the matches peak as high as the best AJW matches, but there's a promise of the style eventually producing some world class workers that I guess sort of came to fruition eventually, but in a roundabout way. I like Suzuki, the Scorpion, Kansai and Saito, and they all seem on track to become great workers as they gather experience. That happened in some cases, but I think the wrestlers became great in a different way than we get hints of in matches like this. Saito in particular looks like someone with a bright future in this match. I like her ground attack, and she also has the likable charisma factor where she comes across as a tougher Sakie Hasegawa. Here she gets a bloody mouth in an exchange with Kansai on the floor, who gets knocked for a loop after a nasty dive to the floor. Saito could have won the match by countout, but opts to roll Kansai in and pin her, which is a nice touch. Very good match.
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This match is awesome! Fuerza Guerrera is one of a kind. Octagon blindsiding him at the beginning of the second fall while he's jaw jacking with the stunt granny was great. My favorite spot is Fuerza tying the string on the back of Octagon's mask in such a tight knot that the referee can't even get him free (although the referee seems to be pretty clearly in Fuerza's pocket). Fuerza uses this as his opportunity to take cheapshots. I also really like the spot where he wrapped both legs around the ringpost and tortured him. The mask ripping and biting kicks in during the third fall, and Octagon finally has enough and stages a comeback of his own, even tying Fuerza up in the ropes upside down while striking him. His face is covered in blood and soon Fuerza is too, and the match gets very violent. The visual of Octagon doing the camel clutch while gouging at Fuerza's bloody face is a power. Fuerza never being able to execute top rope moves never gets old. He goes up top and does his fake ninja pose before getting scared and changing his mind, then trying again and losing his balance completely. Even in the context of a violent bloodbath, Fuerza is still Fuerza. The nearfalls toward the end of this are electric and Octagon got a huge pop for the victory. MOTYC, and probably the best lucha match of 1991.
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October: #1 - Jumbo Tsuruta vs Toshiaki Kawada (AJPW 10/24/91) ****1/4 #2 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (AJPW 10/15/91) ****1/4 #3 - The Scorpion vs Cutie Suzuki (JWP 10/10/91) ***1/2 #4 - Lex Luger vs Ron Simmons (WCW Halloween Havoc 10/27/91) ***1/2 #5 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa (AJPW 10/10/91) ***1/4 #6 - Steve Austin vs Dustin Rhodes (WCW Halloween Havoc 10/27/91) ***1/4 #7 - Genichiro Tenryu vs Yoshiaki Yatsu (SWS 10/29/91) *** #8 - Ric Flair vs Tito Santana (WWF Albert Hall 10/03/91) #9 - Undertaker vs Tito Santana (WWF Barcelona 10/05/91) #10 - Masa Fuchi vs Dan Kroffat (AJPW 10/24/91) #11 - Dave Finlay vs Steve Wright (CWA 10/21/91) #12 - Sting, El Gigante, Rick & Scott Steiner vs Vader, Cactus Jack, Abdullah the Butcher & Diamond Studd (WCW Halloween Havoc 10/27/91) #13 - Ric Flair vs Roddy Piper (WWF MSG Network 10/28/91) #14 - Eddie Gilbert vs Kevin Sullivan (TWA 10/26/91) #15 - Yoshinari Asai vs Bestia Salvaje (SWS 10/29/91) #16 - Genichiro Tenryu vs George Takano (SWS 10/30/91)
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I liked their match in 1990 better. This was okay. The chair swinging stuff was excellent, but Takano is a limited wrestler, and Tenryu got less out of him this time than he did the previous time they locked up. It might be because it's back to back with the Tenryu/Yatsu match, but it felt like a dumbed down version of a very similar layout.
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Pretty cool match. I loved the UWFI tribute spot where Tenryu was being counted down after getting semi-KO'd and they teased that he wouldn't be able to respond. Yatsu does a great dive from the apron to the floor. There were some things I didn't love about this match (felt unusually my-turn, your-turn in how it was laid out), but I think the things I did like overcame it. Great finish with Tenryu slapping Yatsu into a weakened enough position that he can powerbomb him for the win.
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Nice all-action sprint, with Asai continuing to look really good even without the mask. Salvaje worked hard, jumping Ultimo at the opening bell and going highspot for highspot with him. Probably not something I'll remember much about, but this was executed very well. Fans throw money in the ring after the match, which is cool.
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Ric Flair makes his first appearance at MSG in 15 years, and the hardcores on the front row seem especially excited to see him, flashing the four fingers and holding up Flair merchandise. The heat for this match is great! Gorilla annoys me by talking about how it's Flair's "lifelong dream" to work in this arena. I think this is almost the precise point when Flair started working his matches in more abbreviated fashion and opted for a go-go-go style. There's no matwork here. There's no opening feeling out process. They are just throwing punches, and Flair is taking bumps for Piper while the crowd pops. Part of it is changes in wrestling, part of it is Flair aging, but his matches tended to be a lot more rushed from here forward. Flair pins Piper with his feet on the ropes, which is a big deal, as a pinfall job from Piper during this time period is pretty rare. They go overboard to give Piper his heat back, and while this feud seems hot, I wish it could have just ended with Flair getting the win and then bailing. Flair calls Hogan out after the match, as they'll be headlining MSG next month. It's a good interiew, but I think Flair/Piper could have continued longer as a buffer feud to keep Flair and Hogan apart.
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The first PPV main event of the post-Flair era. No one will confuse Luger with Ric Flair, but he puts on an excellent performance in this match, giving Simmons tons of offense, taking some nice bumps for Simmons' big offense, and timing his kickouts in a way that built heat throughout the match. The detail work in this match was really good in that respect. I also think Race and Dusty added a lot to this at ringside building drama. I loved Simmons complaining about all the eye gouging from Luger between falls, and the finish to the second fall is a pretty clever screwjob. The crowd started off a little skeptical of this one, but really got into all the pin attempts by the end, which I credit to Luger selling so much for Simmons. I almost wish he'd fought back a little more in the first fall, but I think the goal was to make people think Simmons had a fighting chance of winning this thing. And for a guy unproven in singles matches on top, they did a hell of a job in that regard. Good match.
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The problem with Texas Death Matches for me has always been that the pinfalls come too easy.
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Saying he's not the greatest booker of all time is not blaming him for anything, or even saying he's bad.
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I understand that. My issue was with picking the one person on the list who hadn't shown that he could turn a profit. I don't think drawing money is the end all be all in evaluating wrestlers, and I would understand that point of view if we were debating wrestlers. Wrestlers are performers. Bookers are not, unless they are wearing multiple hats. In most cases, a booker can have all sorts of great ideas, but if they aren't selling tickets, they don't last long in the position. Wrestlers get hired for all sorts of reasons. Headliners are usually expected to draw, sometimes you have mechanics who are there to give good matches in the undercard, sometimes green wrestlers who are perceived to have potential are hired just to give them experience working, etc. But bookers are hired for one reason -- to come up with ideas that get people interested enough in what they are watching that they're willing to spend money to see it. That's why I think bookers have to be evaluated by that standard.
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Do you have a point? This guy is gone.
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Yeah, you are annoying and mean-spirited, and no one likes you, and you are banned.
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I love you preaching about how everything is subjective while telling me I am wrong. You are using the word subjective as a scapegoat to avoid that calling Paul Heyman a better booker than everyone else on that list is an irrational opinion that isn't really supported by anything other than "I enjoyed him more", which is the answer to a different question than the one that was asked in the poll. It's great that you liked him more. I'm not out to take that away from you. But you seem to be confusing "favorite" and "greatest". They aren't the same thing.
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Says who? If I say Paul Heyman is the greatest booker because I enjoyed his work and stories the msot - who are you to correct me, or anybody else who shares such an opinion under the bizzare basis of money? You could argue wrestlers wrestle to put bums in seats. So if two cats have a 5* match but the match isn't seen by many live, or doesn't generate many buys does it make the match any worse? Fuck no. Put it this way. If I was asked who my favorite booker was from that list, it would be a different answer than who the greatest booker was. "Best"/"greatest" doesn't mean "favorite". He's not the greatest because you enjoyed his work and stories the most. He's your favorite because you enjoyed his work and stories the most. Hulk Hogan is the greatest wrestling star of all time. There are plenty of people I like better. I would vote for Hogan on a list asking who the greatest wrestling star was of all time.
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But a booker has absolutely no purpose other than to come up with ideas that draw money. That could be part of a director's goal, but it's not all of it. That's what makes wrestling unique from other forms of entertainment. It's morphed over time, but pretty much every convention in wrestling exists because either now or in the past, someone thought it was a critical ingredient to drawing money. There may be artistic integrity at times (e.g. wanting to "steal the show"), but it's incidental. Treating wrestling as an art form to be critiqued is a fairly new idea, which is why I think the best booker is the booker that was the most successful. We can pick apart their flaws all we want - and we do, regularly - but ideas either work in execution or they don't. Paul Heyman created something that people enjoyed. But so did everyone else on the list, and the key for them is that they were able to parlay it into something that worked from a business perspective too.
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In that case, I don't think they would have needed to change anything, because the matches were different enough. But putting a technical masterpiece immediately after a bloody brawl is usually a guarantee that the technical match won't have the heat that it should. Still, there are exceptions to every rule, and I don't think there's one right way to create a wrestling show.
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If a film director was critically acclaimed yet his films don't make a profit - does that make him a bad film maker? Since when does anyone in wrestling care about critical acclaim?
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I would too. I think it's a matter of how the matches are worked. I wouldn't even call that "good" or "bad". It's more about understanding what preceded the match and what is to follow, and working the right type of match for that spot on the card. I agree completely with this. The audible reaction to comedy matches is usually a screaming pop, not a sitcom laugh track. That doesn't mean people aren't laughing. Honestly, this could be a matter of simple acoustics. But it's very rare that you hear that reaction in American wrestling. Also, is a weasel suit match seen as a funny, ha-ha match? Or is it seen as a glorious comeuppance for a slimy manager? Most of the time, comedy in U.S. wrestling is happenstance. It happens to be funny, but it isn't necessary played for laughs. Even an evening gown match between Patterson and Brisco has a storyline reason for happening, instead of the announcers saying "Check this out! We're about to make you laugh!" Compare that to something like Damian/Naniwa, which is obviously just a naked attempt to make people laugh.
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