Loss

I liked this a lot more than Childs and jdw, but I do understand where they're coming from. It's not at the level you'd hope it to be because the match was too long, but there is some really great stuff in this match. Vader and Hansen throwing furniture and potatoes at each other worked for me. There is a little too much laying on the mat, but when Vader re-takes the advantage from Hansen, the match picks up again and builds to a good conclusion. I don't try to convince anyone that it's a great match, but it's not a total miss either. There was a really strong 10-15 minute match buried in a 22-minute one. It's like we got the Director's Cut of a great match that just watered it down.

Short, high-octane match with Hamaguchi taking the fight to Choshu pretty aggressively. Choshu juices pretty early on, with Hamaguchi eventually doing the same. Choshu shouts something that I wish I understood as he reverses an Irish whip into the guardrail on the floor, and between that and his amazing ring entrance, this match really makes the point of what a rare superstar this guy was. After taking a prolonged beating, Choshu rallies a big comeback and takes Hamaguchi out with a series of lariats. As Childs said, there is a factional element at play, but I'm hoping that will resonate more after the 10-man on 6/26. This was short, but they packed a lot into the time they were given. I really enjoyed this.

I really enjoyed the spectacle of all of this. Aoyagi works a very narrow style, but when he's opposite someone with charisma and star quality, he typically has a good match. This is not an exception to that. This starts off as a mat-based affair until Aoyagi makes it personal by taking cheapshots and kicking Liger in the face. The Japanese dynamic seems to always be that guys who are seen as shooters taking shortcuts gets big heel heat, and that adds a lot to the atmosphere here. After splitting victories in the first two rounds, Liger gets his mask ripped off and completely snaps, taking Aoyagi off of his feet with a double-leg takedown and trying to choke the life out of him. It's strange seeing Liger work unmasked. Aoyagi starts bleeding and his white karate outfit is a crimson mess, which is always a fun visual. This wasn't a great match, but it was a great concept that came off very well. I wouldn't have minded seeing Liger work a few more matches like this throughout the decade, provided he had the right opponent.

They should have had segments where heels would visit Brother Love to get spiritual advice, where he would tell them to do something horrible that they would later do.

I make no promises, but I will be starting research on this one in the not-to-distant future. I'd like to get a full grasp of what's out there. Any suggestions on the best place to start?

Add Chuck Zito to the list as well.

Kevin Federline, Charles Barkley, Lawrence Taylor (in WCW), "Pet of the Year" Patti Mullen, Jason Hervey regardless of whether he was intended to be or not, Floyd Mayweather, whatever Eagles player was Pillman's bodyguard in ECW, Joe Frazier at Starrcade '84 depending on your interpretation, Mike Tyson before the big swerve at Mania and the guy from Dinner and a Movie who joined the NWO at the last Clash.

A super greedy crony capitalist financing a corrupt televangelist is pretty timely for the 80s.

I think Brother Love was awesome, except for the time he was the announcer for an MSG show and called THE ENTIRE SHOW in his Brother Love voice.

I just said Sting wasn't being blamed for anything two posts ahead of this. Yet you say I'm blaming Sting for WCW's woes. This keeps happening again and again and again and again in this thread. Ric Flair worked for a promotion that spent the better part of a decade attempting to undermine him, destroy his reputation, turn him into a second-tier comedy guy and cut his TV time. In spite of that, he was still the biggest ratings draw in the company at the end of the decade. So yes, wrestlers can overcome what is given to them. So to emphasize the argument in short form: Sting is not being blamed for WCW not drawing. Sting is not being blamed for WCW not drawing. Sting is not being blamed for WCW not drawing. Sting is not being blamed for WCW not drawing. But ... Sting being a guy who should have done better doesn't make him a Hall of Famer. Sting being a guy who should have done better doesn't make him a Hall of Famer. Sting being a guy who should have done better doesn't make him a Hall of Famer. Sting being a guy who should have done better doesn't make him a Hall of Famer. Sting being a guy who should have done better doesn't make him a Hall of Famer. And ... This doesn't mean Sting had a horrible career. No one is saying he did. This doesn't mean Sting had a horrible career. No one is saying he did. This doesn't mean Sting had a horrible career. No one is saying he did. This doesn't mean Sting had a horrible career. No one is saying he did. This doesn't mean Sting had a horrible career. No one is saying he did.

That's not the argument I would make against Edge. Does anyone make that argument against Edge? I've probably forgotten the arguments against Edge. I thought people had counter arguments for Meltzer's points about Edge as a ratings draw or whatever it is. My point really is about timing. If Edge were to get in because he came along at a time when business was strong and Sting doesn't because he was on top when business was poor then how much of it is based on each man's merits or lack thereof and how much is sheer dumb luck? Being in the right place at the right time is how Hulk Hogan and Steve Austin got over too. Part of it is luck. That's wrestling.

It's only being mentioned because the reason everyone has been inducted has been for either great in-ring or great drawing power. Sting doesn't have the in-ring, so the drawing power is getting mentioned a lot. It happens with every HOF candidate, not just Sting. Every single person who headlined during the time he did that is in the HOF has accomplishments outside of that time period. We're not debating the worth of Sting's career. We are debating if he's a HOF guy or not. No one is holding anything against Sting. The HOF is for the best of the best. Sting doesn't quite hit that level. That doesn't mean his career was completely worthless. I'll try this one more time because I feel like I have posted this about a dozen times in this thread and for whatever reason, it's not getting through. Sting is not to blame for his career not taking off the way it could have. Sting is not to blame for not being a huge draw. That's not something I'd chalk up to a weakness on his part. But a HOF has to be about what actually happened, not what might have been. You can mention all the positives you want about Sting, and most of them are probably true. But there are plenty of people we could say nice things about that have no business entering a Hall of Fame. For some reason, that's being interpreted as Sting being "blamed" for something. If he's going to go in the HOF, I'd rather talk about his positives than his not-negatives.

But if the HOF is going to be a place to acknowledge people who had their potential cut short through no fault of their own, there are probably dozens of guys we could make a HOF case for. Admittedly, Sting is near the top of that list.

Dylan acknowledged that a few posts back. It was the strong in-ring in combination with being their biggest draw. Either of those things on its own wouldn't have warranted a HOF case.

Well, if it had nothing to do with Sting and everything to do with the business then why emphasise what a poor draw he was? Unless there were specific reasons why he couldn't draw. What were his failings? That's not the point. What were his successes? Putting Sting in the HOF because his failures weren't his fault isn't a particularly strong case. At some point, you have to switch from just responding to negatives and start producing some big positives, which I haven't really seen anyone do yet. It's all in a feeling, which is fine, but it's not a HOF case.

Sure.

Check the yearbooks subforum at this board. There are some matches I've liked quite a bit that haven't really gotten tons of play, even if a few people liked them. I saw Bull Nakano vs Devil Masami from JWP (04/18/93) listed, which is awesome. I think I underrated that match the first time around. It's incredible that they built a 35-minute match and really got the crowd going the way they did without the fast-paced action that was typical of the time period. There were very few highspots, if any at all. One of the smartest wrestling matches ever. THAT match is the epitome of Joshi For People Who Don't Like Joshi to me.

I'm trying to remember the approved WWF language surrounding her -- was it "their lovely daughter Dakota"?

YOUNG DAKOTA RUNNELS.

I agree -- Atlas should have gotten the Clash spot against Flair over JYD. These promos are solid.

"I'm Kerry Von Erich, and as you know, I don't have time to stop and talk to people at the Sportatorium." -- That quote makes me laugh every time He shills his new hotline. He says he can be asked ANYTHING, and stresses it to a point that I think they were trying to get teen girls to call and have phone sex.

The finish of the Lawler/Dundee match, capped off by a new Dundee interview. He and Tessa are thinking about getting married!

Borne is pissed off about earlier and is even bleeding, presumably from the pull-apart earlier. I like Borne and Pringle together.