jdw

I was wonder: am I the only one who thinks having Ten-Koji/Tencozy on the ballot as being a way to get them in without having to ponder their careers away from each other? If Ten-Koji warrants being in, and Tenzan also has all that time with Cho-Ten, doesn't that mean: Tenzan = Cho-Ten + Ten-Koji + Other Tenzan Stuff Tenzan > Ten-Koji

Guess that means Weston, unless he's asking Stu about Apter.

Is this something new that Dave rolled out? This doesn't sound like something he ran in with back when the issue was discussed last decade. In fact, I seem to recall the Maeda Argument was the one made, which most of us saw as a problem with the Electorate rather than the Candidate.

He was eligible the year after the Kawada matches happened. It didn't really move people. He was still down around 33% in 2005 when the voting happened a while after the match with Kobashi. He's Sting. He was around forever, headlined a lit, won a lot of shit, in some good matches even if he was a solid-to-middling worker.

Jericho has been on the ballot for several years before he got in. He wasn't a dunker. Whether it was premature... that seemed to be around the peak of Y2J. Not sure if he's done a lot since then that would make him a stronger candidate. He'd been on the ballot since at least 2000 when Hash went in, and hadn't gotten in. Not a dunker. I don't think Chono has done anything since then that would increase his candidacy. His core stuff is all before he got in. Konnan had been kicked around the ballot for a decade, and may even have dropped off. I doubt whatever he's done since 2009 would impact people voting for him. It was based on what he'd done years earlier. Sasaki was a beneficiary of being around forever, and basically one of two of the Big 8 of AJPW & NJPW his generation (Pillars + Musketeers + Sasaki) who hadn't gotten in. He had the honors and headlined a ton... yadder, yadder. It took forever for folks to vote him in as there were a number of us who weren't sold on him, and frankly some of us still are. So poor Taue is the only one of the 8 still out. Seriously doubt Youtube had a great deal to do with it since there's never been a big buzz about Sasaki being a "hidden great worker" like others have gotten a bump off. Sasaki is closer the the Sting argument than folks actually bothering to watch him. Nobody really lobbied for him. Dave indicated he voted for him in 2003. Voters in the US and Japan liked him. It was silly, but what can you do about it. I doubt forcing Dragon to wait more years with a higher age / experience requirement would have impacted him much. It took him a few years until 2003 to get in. 20 years of experience would have made him eligible in 2007. Same folks, though likely with more voters, would have voted him in then, or in a few years.

Rock was elected in 2007 when he was effectively "retired" making movies. He already was a dunker when he got elected. We'd have to go back and look at the ones from 1998 (when voting started) to the present that were premature. We all can point pretty easy to Kurt Angle, but I'm not sure how many more there are. I doubt it would be the majority who were active that went in.

We're only a few years removed from Cena. If the WWE creates another Cena, which at some point they'll have, dunkers will come back. Based on past history of how people have been voted in, what Danielson has done to this point would make him a dunker as well. Who knows how the voters will look at him. I suspect most of us think he'll go in, as 60% isn't that high of a threshold. On the other hand, Cena got "just" 71% back in 2012 so... er...

Carny 1994 Pimping Post:

Glad to see this holds up for some. In the building, it did just blow by.

Wrong match.

There are plenty of good Mutoh performances out there. I just watched his 1991 G1 match with Vader that was damn fine, and his performance was right there neck and neck with Leon's. I seem to recall someone in the yearbook threads at that point having Mutoh in the running for his Wrestler of the Year. The problem is that was 1991. Mutoh wrestled forever after that and has plenty of matches that people could point to when he was just a dog. Hence why folks ages ago came up with the Good Mutoh / Bad Muta reference point: "This was rocking as Good Mutoh showed up." "Of god lord what a stinker - Bad Mutoh showed up for this one." That he'd dust off the moonsault at the end didn't redeem a match where he laid around and didn't want to do much. Is he the laziest wrestler ever? I think folks are just having fun tossing that at him to get across that he was far too often a lazy worker.

Baseball is a great analogy. They've targeted high rollers and corporate sales for tickets, as has the NBA. Both have priced the old middle/lower incomes that could go to a good number of games a year with a slew of kids. They've also targeted sports channels for income, though less people watch and listen to a team like say the Dodgers than did in the 70s and 80s. On some level it's "smart". There are arguments for the question of whether it's sustainable in the sense of creating new fans / the next generation of fans. But those arguments have been going on for a decade or two already.

Not sure if this is an entirely new concept. All Japan Women were more popular in the 80s than in the 90s. The promotion was able to expand beyond their old core fandom of young girls to drawing males. There likely were less of them in total compared to those who watched and followed in the prior peak. They just happened to have more money, more ability to go to shows (buying their own tickets rather than relying on parents) and more money to toss at different types of merch.

"... and even if he's a lazy worker, and the Muta was certainly that -- quite possibly the laziest in Japan... which would place him high in the runnin' for laziest worldwide -- but sometimes there's a worker... sometimes there's a worker. Wal, I lost m'train of thought here."

Okay, so what does that mean. Let's take 1993 as an example, and fill it in a bit. 1. New Year Giant Series This ran from 1/2 - 1/31. It opened with two nights in Korakuen Hall, the first a TV taping. This was the final full years of the 60 minute TV show, so they taped at a lot of cards. TV tapings in this series on 1/2, 1/8, 1/15, 1/21, 1/24, 1/26 and 1/30. There was no Budokan, nor a Triple Crown match. The big match was the World Tag Title match in 1/30 in Chiba between Misawa & Kawada vs Gordy & Williams. Booking concept? Misawa & Kawada got the tag titles back in December by winning the Tag League. Gordy & Williams had won the Tag League in 1990 & 1991. It would be nice to say that Baba had this planned out as a logical match up by either the teams going to a draw in the Tag League, or Gordy & Williams winning the match to set it up. Not the case: Misawa & Kawada beat them. They were tossed together because by this point Baba knew he needed to get the belts off Misawa & Kawada with this being the last good spot to do it. Gordy & Williams were the only team in the promotion that could lift it of them, so not really something plotted out long term. Other cards would have matches to tease stuff later in the series, such as Gordy & Williams vs Misawa & Kobashi on the 1/21 taping to lead into the 1/30 title match, with Kobashi in the place here of Kawada. They would uses matches along those lines or six-man tags as standard early series matches to heat up the big ones. The All Asia Tag Title got defended on the 1/24 taping with Kobashi & Kikuchi defending against Akiyama & Ogawa. Jun debuted the prior September, with this his first title match. All 23:14 of it got aired, which was kind of cool on several levels. Taue and Kobashi hooked up on the 1/26 taping. Kobashi had never beaten Taue at this point, so the outcome wasn't massively in doubt. Taue going over is a decent set up for headlining Budokan in the next series. 2. Excite Series This ran from 2/19 to 3/4. As indicated, it's a short series. TV tapings on 2/19, 2/25, 2/28 & 3/3. Budokan was the 2/28 card, which is an example of this still being in the era where Budokan didn't always end the seven series it was run on. That would change in the coming years. Budokan was the focus of the entire series, with nothing of note tossed on the other cards that I recall. The other three tapings were run of the mill tags. Budokan was "loaded" up: Misawa vs Taue for the TC, Hansen vs Kawada, Kobashi vs Spivey, Fuchi vs Kikuchi for the Jr. Title, and Gordy vs Akiyama in one of Jun's "growing up" matches to take place during the year. 3. Champion Carnival Series This was a long series running from 3/25 to 4/21 based around the singles league/tournament. Tapings were 3/25, 3/27, 3/30, 4/12, 4/14 & 4/21. When the Carny was brought back in 1991, it was split into two different "Blocks" or groups. The winner of each block advanced to the Final. In 1993, they went with a single group/block, everyone wrestling everyone else, and the two with the highest points would face again in the Final. They tended to load up the Carny and Tag League cards in Osaka and Nagoya to draw crowds into their two larger arenas outside of Budokan. Osaka got Misawa vs Kobashi + Kawada vs Taue + Gordy vs Williams, while Nagoya got Misawa vs Gordy + Hansen vs Taue + Kawada vs Kobashi. The Osaka card had the obvious theme that would be coming out Carny: future members of the new native teams facing each other while the top gaijin team did the same. The Carny Final was at Yokohama Bunka Gym, moving to Budokan the following year. 4. Super Power Series This ran from 5/14 to 6/3. Taping were 5/14, 5/20, 5/21, 5/29, 6/1 & 6/3. 5/20 & 5/21 were two shows in Saparro at the beloved Nakajima Sports Center. All Japan ran back-to-back shows in the Super Power Series in 1993 & 1996, which I applied the slang term "Sapporo Double Shot" to as each had historic/memorable/historic matches. This one was split into tag team night the first night, and singles night the second: 5/20: Gordy & Williams vs Kawada & Taue (WTT), Misawa & Kobashi vs Hansen vs Spivey 5/21: Misawa vs Hansen (TC), Kawada vs Williams, Kobashi vs Gordy, Taue vs Spivey, Fuchi vs Kroffat (Jr) The two new native teams against the top two gaijin teams since 1990 faced each other on the first night. Kawada & Taue were the completely new team, so they got the title shot. The second night was Native vs Gaijin in singles. Hansen got the Triple Crown shot off wining the Carny and pinning Misawa both in the League part and in the Final. That one was smartly booked. Kawada vs Williams is coming off their draw in the Tag League. Kobashi continues his singles push coming off the win over Spivey at the prior Budokan. Gaijins didn't do very well at all. Budokan was 6/1 headlined by the first Kawada & Taue vs Misawa & Kobashi match after Kawada joined hands with Taue, and thanks to earlier in the series it was for the World Tag Title. Hansen vs Gordy was the semi as the top two gaijin facing off. Much of the other TV revolved around getting across the new Misawa & Kobashi & Co vs Kawada & Taue & Co feud. The tapings on 5/14, 5/29 & 6/3 were all main evented by tags or six-mans involving various combos from the group. Patriot & Eagle got an All Asia Tag Title shot at Kobashi & Kikuchi the night after Budokan, off television. A sad an unfitting end to the Kobashi & Kikuchi team, but the belts had to come off them with Kobashi now Misawa's top partner. 5. Summer Action Series This ran from 7/2 to 7/29. Tapings were 7/2, 7/9, 7/12, 7/19, 7/26 & 7/29. The Kawada & Taue vs Gordy & Williams rematch got rolled out on the 7/26 card. Much like Jumbo, Gordy's last title match for the company happened in a tag title re-match that no one knew at the time was the end. 7/29 was Budokan, so we final have a series that ends of the big show. The first Misawa vs Kawada singles match since Kawada left Misawa's group.The match was supported by Hansen vs Kobashi in another one of Kobashi's high profile singles matches of the year, and Taue vs Bubba in something of a test for Bubba coming in from the WWF. With the exception of the 7/26 card, all of the tapings had some variation of Misawa & Kobashi & Co vs Kawada & Taue & Co airing. 6. Summer Action Series II This ran from 8/20 - 9/9. Tapings on 8/20, 8/23, 8/31, 9/3, 9/5 & 9/9. Gordy was suppose to challenge Misawa for the Triple Crown on Budokan, playing off Gordy having been one of the two people to pin Misawa at Carny (Hansen the other). Of course Gordy had the overdose on the flight over, and was done as a competitive wrestler in AJPW. Rather than just give the title shot to Williams, they ran Williams vs Kobashi on 8/31 with the winner getting the title shot. A famous match. Patriot & Eagle vs Akiyama & Kikuchi for the AATT on the same card, with us now into the period where the AATT is again being ignored. The Kroffat and Fuchi rematch for the Jr title was on 8/23, and sadly this title also is fading into the background. Misawa vs Doc on the 9/3 Budokan was supported by Kawada & Taue defending against the reformed supper team of Hansen & DiBiase. Predictable booking given how Baba tended to treat "new" super teams in their first title shot. The 9/9 taping had Kroffat & Furnas vs Patriot & Eagle for the AATT and Fuchi vs Slinger for the Jr title, but that taping got combined with the 9/5 taping on one program, leaving no time of note for either title match. As I was saying about these titles. The focus was mixed in the series, between more of the top native teams feuding but also working in Hansen & Dibiase while also giving time to Williams given Gordy's absence. Doc started growing in the role, while Ted kind of stuck out like a sore thumb. 7. October Giant Series 9/29 - 10/23 with tapings on 9/29, 10/2, 10/14, 10/17 & 10/23. The booking for the year is starting to run out of steam. We get the third Big Match between Misawa and Hansen to headline the Budokan on 10/23, with this one falling flat. Hansen & DiBiase vs Kawada & Taue gets an instant rematch on 10/14 For some reason they didn't want to run Misawa & Kobashi at them as an interesting sandwich between Hansen-Kobashi at the prior Budokan and Misawa-Hansen to climax this series. They even had the pretty obvious finish to put heat on the Triple Crown match. Odd also since the title change was flat, and Kawada & Taue probably wasn't as good of a match up for Stan & Ted as Misawa & Kobashi were. Oh well... I didn't book All Japan. Misawa-Hansen at Budokan was supported by Kawada-Kobashi and Ted-Akiyama, continuing themes for Kobashi and Jun that ran through the year. Like the prior series, some focus remained on the natives feud, but there was also continued focus on Hansen & Ted and Doc Growing Up. The all consuming feel to the focus in the first two series after the native teams were after Carny had by now had seen the promotion return to spreading the focus around more. 8. Real World Tag League 11/13 - 12/3. Tapings were 11/13, 11/17, 11/24, 11/30, 12/1 & 12/3. The Tag League is a one-block "league" or round robin. There was no "Final" until 1995, so what people call Finals from 1977-94 aren't really Finals. They are the Last Match of the League / Year for the promotion. The way Baba booked these, the Last Match always ended up determining the Winner. It's worth remembering the the Winner didn't always participate in the Last Match. The following year, Misawa & Kobashi would "win" the Tag League by "sitting in the club house" and watching Kawada & Taue lose to Baba & Hansen in the Last Match and fail to get enough points to tie or beat Misawa & Kobashi. The tradition from 1989-94 was that the holders of the World Tag Title would vacate the belts and that they would be awards to the winners of the Tag League. The holders had a shot of winning them back, which happened in 1989. The tradition was started in 1989 based off Tsuruta & Yastu vacating their titles *during* the League in 1988 after a result that they weren't happy about. Usually only certain teams have a chance to win, which is obvious when the teams are announced. Baba doesn't do upsets when it comes to who wins the League. Big Teams only need apply for the silverware. In 1993, only four teams had a shot: Misawa & Kobashi Kawada & Taue Hansen & DiBiase Gordy & Williams Strike that, Gordy was out on overdose. Williams teamed with Bubba. Bubba wasn't really at the level of anyone that Baba had ever let win the Tag league. So they were out: Misawa & Kobashi Kawada & Taue Hansen & DiBiase Gordy & Williams Wait, then Ted hurt his back early in the League, had to pull out, and retired as an active wrestler. Misawa & Kobashi Kawada & Taue Hansen & DiBiase Gordy & Williams So basically the Tag League was ruined as two of the top four teams were out, and only the two new native teams had a shot. Now set aside that pretty much everyone knew that the League would come down to their match, which was going on Last at Budokan. There still was an outside make-believe shot that they may have done something like a draw that allowed either Gordy & Doc (two time Tag League winners) or Hansen & DiBiase (the 1985 winners) to win while in the clubhouse. So... ruined. Except, Baba subbed in to be Hansen's partner and people really dug them. In turn, Bubba partnering with Williams "worked" to the point that they terrific matches with both of the native teams. Misawa & Kobashi Kawada & Taue Hansen & DiBiase --> Hansen & Baba Gordy & Williams --> Williams & Bubba We ended up getting three excellent matches out of the replacement teams. Beyond Budokan, the other card in a good sized venue was in Osaka. Like the Carny, it was given a loaded up card with the Big 4 teams paired against each other: Kawada & Taue vs Baba & Hansen, Misawa & Kobashi vs Williams & Bubba. The Last Match ended up being a pretty good payoff for the entire year, to say the least. You can't really say that about the rest of the big matches of the league, but the Last Match did fine. * * * * * Anyway, hope that's a useful walk through of one year without spoilering everything. No two years are completely alike, some fell more alike than others. In April 1994, the television was cut down to 30 minutes (which meant about 24 minutes of match time). The use of television changed forever, and the promotion really failed to use it well. The work of the crew in regular TV tapings eased back in 1995, with the big boys seeming to save their bodies for the Big Matches. The big matches continued to be at a high level for some time to come, depending on one's view of high level quality. The promotion would get more TV time in late 1996 with a cable contract, but what would have been a dream in 1993 was a big sad in 1997 given how folks had to work the lesser tapings and matches. People come and go, like any other promotion. Tenryu was there when the year turned in 1990, but was gone by April. Jumbo had been there forever, but was gone suddenly in November 1992 never to return as a competitive wrestler. Same would happen to Gordy in 1993. Titles get pushed nicely, then fade. If you watched the weekly TV, the All Asia Tag Title and the Junior Title are cool titles with nifty little divisions in the 1988-93 time frame. They fade after that, though occasionally pop their heads up. More the Jr. title after that then the AATT. So... there's only so far one can go with giving an overview on how things are done since they change / evolve.

But we do have all those 1987-88 matches from original TV now, which I think are all complete. It's just that we don't have them in video upgrade that would come from G+. The 1982 match is a bigger killer since the TV version which you now have is no doubt edited way down given the other two matches on the TV show. G+ could have done a great job by putting that out in fill. On some level, you do wonder if some stuff if missing from the NTV Archive. It's never made a bit of sense that the 1978 Race-Jumbo draw didn't air on one of the Classics. It was a Tokyo Sports Match of the Year. TV was edited in each of the falls. Not the greatest Jumbo-Race match since they had so much time to fill, and Harley really isn't as interesting when going super long as some other workers. But it was a significant match given it won that award. You'd think they would have rolled it out, and in complete form. Yet... it's not there, while a total of six other Race-Jumbo matches made either Sammy Classics or G+ Classics.

I've long said that it's best not to put too much thought into what Kobashi was thinking in a grand scale when working. He never was a deep thinker as a worker. He was more a "I've Got Shit To Do" worker. Which of course made for matches that had shit that fans popped for.