Childs

Awful finish. I don't know if they were going for a controversial count or if somebody just botched it, but that left a bad taste. Very good match overall, though. Mutoh never seemed to do his lying around shit with Tenryu. And the sequence that led to Tenryu eating an Ace Crusher to the floor was pretty great.

I agree with the praise of the match, but the walking around shit really took me out of it for awhile. If I had been booking one of these feds, I would've insisted that my guys find more creative ways to move around. The idea that you'd let the same guy who grated your skin with barb wire lead you gently down a hallway is just so fucking stupid.

They ruined (or at least diminished) a good tag match with that ridiculous table spot. Why bring the action to a screeching halt after Matt Hardy took the hot tag? I agree this was the first time, at least in our '90s review, that the Hardys' potential was fully evident. They could have trimmed some fat from the first 10 minutes of the match, but their double-team stuff looked good, and Jeff already made a compelling face in peril. I just can't get past that wretched decision at the end. I agree with Loss that the bad choices were more indicative of young guys trying to be great than of total cluelessness. But the result was the same. At least the match ended with the big spot.

I opted out on this one. Just couldn't do it.

Ikeda

I'll have to go watch that. Did they go at it on the mat as hard as Ishikawa and Greco?

That match was 90% Honda. Which was completely fine. Not getting in the way of someone else's masterful performance is an important quality to have. This brings up an interesting point, basically how much credit are we giving guys just for being in great matches? Basically, are we giving guys credit simply for being in a match that is great? If Jeff Hardy (and I'm just using his name, not actually making any statement about him) is in a bunch of great matches, but in at least half of them it's not him who's great but the other guy/guys, how much do those matches count towards Hardy's GOAT status? AWA Leon White versus Hansen is another great example. Is that match really a feather in the cap of White? It's a match I've always heard talked about as being great because of Hansen, while White is fine, but not in the great realm. I've seen some bring this match up as an example of White having great matches well before he was Vader. But, if White wasn't really great, but only good in a great match how much credit does he deserve? He deserves some credit for fitting into an excellent match when he was really green. It serves the overall theme of him as a worker who fit well in a wide variety of promotions over a significant amount of time. It's a small point in that argument but a point.

Are you saying he never needed to do it or that he forced it into matches where it wasn't essential? Because I'd argue that Kobashi either hitting or missing his moonsault created some of the best moments of the promotion's mid-'90s classics.

I'd put Ishikawa comfortably ahead. I appreciate his ability to build great drama while working largely from underneath. He pulled off some great matches with Greco, working the mat, that Ikeda didn't have the range to achieve. And yet he could go to war with the best of them. I love Ikeda to pieces--one of the all-time badasses. But Ishikawa was the ring general in that fed.

I always got the sense he kept going because he felt a duty to the company he created, not because he was crazy or addicted. As for the Sasaki comparison, I haven't watched the matches in years, but I really liked Misawa-Morishima at the time. There was something poignant about this broken-down guy, still trying to be The Man because that was what he felt his company needed. And to my eyes, he wrestled the match that way. But I'll have to revisit it to see if I'm full of shit with that. I also thought he was good in the NJ-NOAH stuff in his last year. For me, the 2000s will probably go to Misawa's credit, because he still managed some great big-match performances despite the fact his body was shot by the end of the '90s. His '80s stuff hurts him more for me, because he never really managed to get comfortable with the Tiger Mask gimmick, despite his great talent.

After finishing No. 12 in SC poll, Harley has to be one of the "greatest fall" candidates.

I dunno, Kawada was a really a good tag worker in 1988/89. He was still a step behind Fuyuki but was still a big part of why those matches were great. '89 Kawada reminds me a little of WWE Daniel Bryan or Horsemen-era Benoit, an undersized heavyweight who takes a lot of beatings but has enough offense and works with enough pace and intensity to make himself look credible against significantly larger men. He wasn't undersized. [embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjmwI2b7oh4[/embed] Looks undersized to me. Dude, sorry, I misread your post. Thought you were talking about Kobashi. You're right about young Kawada.

I dunno, Kawada was a really a good tag worker in 1988/89. He was still a step behind Fuyuki but was still a big part of why those matches were great. '89 Kawada reminds me a little of WWE Daniel Bryan or Horsemen-era Benoit, an undersized heavyweight who takes a lot of beatings but has enough offense and works with enough pace and intensity to make himself look credible against significantly larger men. He wasn't undersized.

Wow, I've always thought those Brisco-Dory matches were unbelievably dull. And I like both guys in other settings, especially Brisco.

Yeah, I don't think that's crazy. His selling has been fine in his longer WWE singles matches. But he's built plenty of performances around crazy bursts of offense and little more. He might have been better in '07 and '08, when he would actually build whole sections and themes of matches around selling.

Is he a good brawler? Every "brawl" I've seen him in has been defined by overly elaborate spots involving ladders, weapons, etc. I like Steen as an agile fat guy and think he has some really good epics under his belt. But a brawler? Not sure about that.

Though I agree with your assessment of Luger's career, I think he's already had his reputational renaissance, with people appreciating that he was genuinely excellent for a few years and at least not shitty when he came back from WWF. Maybe he's still got some room to rise, especially from people who aren't looking for blow-away performances from his later run.

His singles matches with Styles in '05 were good, especially the second one.

He had a match with Finlay a few years ago, didn't he? Was it any good?

I just think of UWFI as not really shootstyle, and that clears it right up for me.

I always liked Misawa's approach to those situations. Early in the match, he let his partner feast or famine. But when it came down to winning or losing, he wasn't going to let some other asshole set the scene. Didn't you ever feel that way with less capable co-workers?

Laughter.

One of my favorite things about Vader is he could bump his ass off without undermining his aura as a bad motherfucker. His offense bought him that latitude.

I should add that I don't really know what to do with Andre in this thing. He'll be one of my tougher ranks.

No and that would be the logical argument for a Henry supporter. But at some point, with this kind of ranking project, you've got to blow my hair back. And Mark, for all the times he's made me happier than expected to watch a match, hasn't blown my hair back like the best of the best.