JerryvonKramer

Hate even MNW era DX. Especially the invasion of Nitro thing. Best and least lame version by far was when it was new age outlaws, x-pac and HHH as a foursome.

I really really really hate DX

I think UK and Mexico should be left out of it since there was extemely little actual cross over beyond stars who are either already in the game or about to debut. TEW simulates this very well. Big Daddy never worked the US, so Big Daddy is unavailable in US. I agree with that.

I'm a bit behind, should be able to do my TV and house shows by tomorrow night.

Yes to all

Seems to me that Johnny Ace just has the weirdest career ever, Dynamic Dude in a shitty tag team in WCW, fairly well rated run in AJPW, booker in WCW, exec in WWF/E, on-screen authority figure in WWE, now road agent. Completely weird career progression. Who can even compare?

http://placetobenation.com/all-japan-excite-series-9/ Parv and Steven are back for this special show as they welcome the first ever guest on the AJ Excite series, the awesome PeteF3, to watch this amazing suite of matches. 04/16/94 - Steve Williams vs Toshiaki Kawada 05/21/94 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue 06/03/94 - Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada 07/22/94 - Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs Steve Williams & Johnny Ace

MVP: Sgt. Slaughter 1. Sgt. Slaughter vs. Pat Patterson (5/4/81) 2. Bob Backlund vs. Greg Valentine (11/23/81) 3. Bob Backlund vs. Sgt. Slaughter (3/21/81)

Thanks for pointing that out. It's not like I understood it already. So cheers.

I'm very disappointed in this thread's steadfast refusal to actually review and analyse this match. Two pages of talking about who should have gone over? This is the problem when things become hyper canonical, it's like the thing has got to the point where no one feels they actually need to review it. One of the few times I've felt let down by PWO. AJ Excite coming later on tonight.

My recommendation would the Exile on Bad Street shows on JCP, and the recent Between the Sheets shows which also have some WTBBP overlap. You'll also get some dissenting opinions from WTBPP too, since those guys seem to like Dan Spivey. Speaking of that, we hope to be back as soon as this weekend.

For the sake of comparison, here are reviews by me and my fellow Titan Pete from the archives.

[accidental]

http://placetobenation.com/titans-of-wrestling-53-wwf-december-1981-to-march-1982/ Johnny stays in the hotseat once again as he joins Pete, Kelly and Parv to plow on into 1982. On the docket tonight: 12-12 BOB BACKLUND vs GREG VALENTINE PHILADELPHIA SPECTRUM 01-02 PEDRO MORALES vs GREG VALENTINE WWF TV 01-16 BOB BACKLUND vs GREG VALENTINE WWF TITLE/CAGE PHILADELPHIA SPECTRUM 01-18 PEDRO MORALES vs GREG VALENTINE WWF TV 01-18 BOB BACKLUND vs ADRIAN ADONIS WWF TITLE MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 01-18 FUJI/SAITO vs MARTEL/GAREA TAG TITLE MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 03-14 ANDRE/MCGRAW vs FUJI/SAITO TAG TITLE MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 03-14 BOB BACKLUND vs JESSE VENTURA WWF TITLE MADISON SQUARE GARDEN 03-14 PAT PATTERSON vs LOU ALBANO MADISON SQUARE GARDEN On this show: - Discussion of the escape-the-cage rules - Another debate about structure and psychology - Mark out for a RARE sighting of Vince McMahon Sr on screen!!!!!!!!!!(*&$%&£!OMGFG!!!!!!11) - Ranking Martel / Garea and Fuji / Saito in the pantheon of 80s tag-teams - Patterson vs. Albano: a lost classic?

Would be nice to know your thoughts.

Can't see past Sgt. Slaughter for this.

Was Flair ever not phenomenal when he would actually show up on TV in a match during the 80s and early 90s? Relatively rare, but a lot of stand outs whenever he did. Buzz Sawyer gets at least an honourable mention from me. TBS studio setting for GCW.

WWF at Madison Square Garden August 2nd, 1983 Howard Finkel announces the arrival of Jesse Ventura who walks down the aisle and joins Vince McMahon on commentary. Vince: Jesse “The Body” Ventura? To what do we owe this … pleasure? Jesse: Well I’m ready and I’m hyped McMahon! Because, you see, I’m your new commentary partner. Not only here live from Madison Square Garden, but also on WWF Superstars! Vince: Well welcome Jesse, I hope this will be a … fruitful partnership. This is a huge night here at Madison Square Garden, where we have FOUR titles on the line. We have not one, but two matches in reserve, but Jesse FOUR titles. Jesse: Yes, Jack and Jerry Brisco have their hands very full against the fearsome combination of Abdullah the Butcher and The Sheik! I predict that the brothers will struggle against a duo who will break every rule in the book and do anything to win. Vince: Yes, and Ricky “The Dragon” Steamboat defends his Intercontinental title against Larry Zbyszko. We’ve seen these two have some classic encounters already. But now what will happen inside the steel cage? Jesse: Maybe tonight is where the Dragon loses his fire. I saw Larry Zybszko backstage and he’s pumped and ready. And of course, he’s a veteran of cage matches. Famously against Bruno Sammartino at Shea Stadium. Vince: And in the first of our main events, the NWA World Champion, Harley Race defends against former WWF Champion Bob Backlund. Mr. Race obviously not as particular as Mr. Bockwinkel about who challenges for his title …. Jesse: Well Nick Bockwinkel has every right to refuse the challenge of Backlund, and besides, you don’t see him turning down the return of Pedro Morales, and this – Madison Square Garden – is Pedro’s back yard. Vince: Yes, the fans love Morales! Jesse: They aren’t going to love him for long after Bockwinkel and Heenan rearrange his face! Vince: Well, we’ll have to see about that … Jesse: McMahon, there are going to be some changes around here. First of all, I’m going to need some water here on this desk. Get one of those goons to fetch some water. I can’t work under these conditions! The Goon rushes to ringside carrying a bottle of water for Jesse. Jesse: I could get used to this. It’s New York, the lights, Broadway, Martin Scorsese and Robert De Niro … McMahon, I’m bringing a bit of class to these MEAN STREETS. Vince: I’m … it’s a pleasure working with you Jesse, now let’s get to this first matchup … Jesse: McMahon, why doesn’t this chair have an ergonomic back? I want to rock on it and there’s no “give”. How can I work under these conditions? I want a better chair. Jesse stands up. Jesse: Hey, you, Goon! Get me a better chair! The Goon hesitates and looks around, he can’t see anything but the standard fold-up chairs. Jesse loses his patience, grabs his own chair and … bashed The Goon on the head with it, laying him out cold. Vince: Jes .. What in … Jesse Ventura! Restrain yourself! Jesse: I guess this chair will have to do for now. Come on, let’s get on to the first match. Arn and Ole Anderson vs. The Animals (George Steele and Crazy Luke Graham) Match: Arn Anderson pinned Graham after a spinebuster in 7:04. During the match the Andersons were able to isolate Graham and keep Steele cut off. They worked on Graham’s back. Steele did not get to enter the match legally. Comments from announcers: (Jesse) “I like these Andersons, they are methodical, they always have a game plan” (Vince) “But thus far unable to capture the tag team gold, despite their efforts against the Briscos” (Jesse) “Look at this idiot, Steele, he doesn’t even know what day it is. You lost the match, go home!” Jack and Jerry Brisco © vs. Abdullah the Butcher and The Sheik for the WWF Tag Team Championship Match: The match ended in a no contest at 12:40 with all four men brawling back down the aisle to the locker room. This match was a blood bath, with all four men bleeding. Abdullah and Sheik ambushed Jack Brisco early, frequently entering the ring illegally and cheating outrageously with the use of a concealed foreign object. Eventually Brisco gained possession of the object and was able to tag his brother, Jerry, who came in to the ring a house of fire. Abdullah simply clotheslined the referee and elbow dropped him. But Jerry stabbed both Abdullah and The Sheik repeatedly with the foreign object. Jack and Jerry double teamed them, but The Sheik was able to pull out a second concealed foreign object. Abdullah went into the front row and threw two chairs into the ring. A big and bloody brawl erupted. Comments from announcers: (Jesse) “McMahon, this is the most brutal match I’ve ever witnessed!” (Vince) “Someone needs to put a stop to these …. Savages running amok!” (Jesse) “They aren’t savages, McMahon, The Sheik is a very shrewd business man, and do not underestimate the cunning of Abdullah the Butcher” (Vince – getting shouty and throaty) “Abdullah the Butcher clotheslined the referee!!! NO! UNBELIEVABLE!” (Vince) “Someone needs to get security out here, these men are going to kill each other” Man Mountain Link vs. Chief Thundercloud Match: Link defeats Thundercloud with a slam in 1:40. Comments from announcers: (Vince) “Can you believe what we have just witnessed in that tag team encounter?” (Jesse) “And McMahon, we still have three more title matches to go!” Cage Match: Ricky Steamboat © vs. Larry Zbyszko for the WWF Intercontinental Championship Match: Steamboat escaped the cage by walking out of the door after delivering Zbyszko two consecutive superplexes in 26:00. During the match Zbyszko tried to escape the cage multiple times early on, but Steamboat was able to cut him off each time. He threw Zbyszko into the cage several times and Zbyszko was bleeding profusely. But he turned the tables after being able to nail a karate sweep, and it was Steamboat’s turn to eat the cage. This was a nasty match that featured both men grating the other’s face in the side of the cage. By the time Steamboat left the cage, the ring was covered in blood. Comments from announcers: (Jesse) “I thought I’d seen everything with the tag match, but this one … I can’t believe what I’m seeing McMahon” (Vince) “It is CARNAGE here tonight at Madison Square Garden, this is a night for the ages!” (Jesse) “I have to give credit where credit is due: Ricky Steamboat made a believer out of me tonight. He fought, he bled, and ultimately, he had too much for Larry Zbyskzko and he retains his Intercontinental title” (Vince) “That is what you call a fighting champion!” Howard Finkel runs through some upcoming cards and there is an interval while the cage is dismantled. The ring is covered with blood stains. Harley Race © vs. Bob Backlund for the NWA World Heavyweight Title Match: The match ended in a draw after both men were counted out in 17:22. Backlund dominated the majority of the match, with “row row” arm wrenches in the early going working up to a huge piledriver and atomic drop. Every time Race attempted to get something going, Backlund had an answer and cut him off. Race was able to deliver a suplex and a gutwrench suplex to Backlund, but the action spilled outside and both men ran into the post in a double collision. Comments from announcers: (Jesse) “Non-stop world class action here tonight at The Garden, McMahon!” (Vince) “These fans are getting a real feast tonight, Harley Race vs. Bob Backlund would headline anywhere in the country” (Jesse) “Backlund is really giving it to Race here, but remember: he has to beat the champion, the champion does not need to beat him” (Vince) “You’re right, it’s the champion’s advantage, and Harley Race knows exactly how to work that advantage to its maximum” (Jesse) “Another great match, how many is that now?” Nick Bockwinkel © vs. Pedro Morales for the WWF Heavyweight Championship Prior to the bout Heenan and Bockwinkel looked nervous and Heenan went to fetch Blackjack Lanza as an extra measure. Pedro Morales received a huge ovation from the MSG crowd. Match: Bockwinkel defeats Morales by pinning him in 18:00 with extra assistance from Bobby Heenan holding down his leg after using a pair of brass knucks to knock him out as Blackjack Lanza distracted the referee. During the match, Pedro started a house of fire until Lanza tripped his leg. Bockwinkel then controlled the early going. Pedro was getting increasingly frustrated at the presence of Heenan and Lanza at ringside, and several times tried to chase Heenan. The firey Puerto Rican was able to make a comeback and looked to be about to defeat Bockwinkel when he got in the concealed punch with the brass knucks. Comments from announcers: (Jesse) “Pedro Morales needs to realise that it’s not Bobby Heenan he needs to beat, it’s that man in the ring Nick Bockwinkel. It’s not good losing his temper and chasing after the manager, he’ll never win the belt that way” (Vince) “But Jesse! This no good Heenan, this weasel, is interfering in this match up!” (Jesse) “That’s called being SMART, McMahon. That’s why Nick Bockwinkel is the WWF Champion and Pedro Burrito here is FORMER champion” (Vince) Pedro!! Pedro Morales now! Oh healmostgothim NO! UNBELIEVEABLE! Black Jack Lanza, he’s on .. what’s he doing on the apron! Bobby Heenan just threw something into the ring and ohno … this is a TRAVESTY! No, not like this!” (Jesse) “1, 2, 3! He got him! Nick Bockwinkel retains!! Ha ha ha! What about your Pedro Morales now!” (Vince) “Oh he was cheated. President Shinma needs to know about this.” (Jesse) “Oh please McMahon, you and that Gorilla Monsoon going to call the President every time the champion wins? Why can’t you just be happy for him and Bobby Heenan?”

WWF @ Johnstown, PA - Cambria County War Memorial Arena - 7/28/83 Baron Scicluna defeated Jack Carson in 5:00 with a camouflaged punch. Ole and Gene Anderson defeated The Animals (George Steele and Crazy Luke Graham) in 9:40 after Graham submitted to an Indian deathlock applied by Ole. WWF Tag Team Champions Jack and Jerry Brisco defated Arn and Lars Anderson by DQ in 17:43 after Ole Anderson interfered while Gene Anderson attempted to distract the referee. After the match the Andersons attempted to "hang, draw and quarter" Jerry Brisco, but he and Jack were able to fend them off and escape with the titles. WWF Intercontinental Champion Ricky Steamboat defeared Blackjack Lanza in 8:22 with a flash inside cradle. WWF @ Cleveland, OH - Convention Center - 7/29/83 Wendi Richter won an 11-woman Battle Royale in 15:00 by throwing The Fabulous Moolah over the top rope last shortly before throwing Leilani Kai out. The match also featured Princess Victoria, Velvet McIntyre, Debbie Combs, Donna Day, Judy Martin, Penny Mitchell, Susan Star and Joyce Grable. Bruiser Brody defeated Superstar Billy Graham with a running knee drop after 8:02. Graham was clearly out powered during this match up. Bob Backlund defeated The Sheik by count out after giving him an atomic piledriver at 7:45. During the match The Sheik was able to cut Backlund's head with a pencil. NWA World Champion Harley Race wrestled Mil Mascaras to a draw after both men were counted out after 34:00.

Pass

1. HBK, GOAT 2. Iron Sheik, all time legend.

I don't think you can. Prove it!!! Well can you demonstrate something n****? I'd rather not. ..... That would be more time thinking and writing about modern WWE than it deserves. I'd prefer to spend my time doing that about wrestling I actually enjoy.

It's not just the shoot stuff with Sheik, WWE has CONSISTENTLY listed him as one of their top stars ever in their version of history. He's always in their top 50 lists. He's alwyas in montages and things. I even made a thread about it before. http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/20784-iron-sheik/

Just as an example, we interviewed Tito on Titans last year and no one really batted an eyelid. I think there would be more of a "holy shit!" on any of Ted, Jake, Duggan, Steamer, or even Sheiky baby.