JerryvonKramer

When you say good, are you thinking *** range?

Start listing them Pete, I can honestly say I've never seen a Brad match I thought was anything to write home about.

The 6-minute one from GCW in 84 when he's Mr. R vs. Ted is about as good a 6-minute match as you might see. Feather in Ted's cap that he can get great matches out of jobbers like Brad.

How about the Money Inc match with the Steiners from the TV BEFORE the cage match? Ummm IRS vs. 1-2-3 Kid at Summerslam 93? He really takes Waltman's head off with that clothesline ("The Write-off Check!") The Razor Ramon matches in 94? I'm reaching at this point, but what does Rotunda do that's so unengaging do you think? Is it the endless abdominal stretches and chin locks? He had decent heat. IRWIIINNN, IRWWWINNNN. I like the schtick of not having any entrance music and coming out by cutting a promo on the way to the ring. I'll admit that Rotunda has basically no top 100 ammunition. But I thought if guys like The Mountie are getting a thread, then ol VK Wallstreet can have one. Still think his 1989 is underrated.

One more match to break the B+ line tonight: Dory Funk Jr. and Dick Murdoch vs Seiji Sakaguchi and Michiaki Yoshimura (12/12/71) Really good two out of three falls tag match that builds superbly as intensity and high-end offense rachet up. Some terrific matwork and chain wrestling from Dory and some great double teaming by him and Murdoch. Good babyface performance by Sakaguchi. End of first fall is excellent. Rating: **** / B+

Time to watch some more matches of one of the all-time greats, Dory Funk Jr! Dory Funk Jr. and Dick Murdoch vs Seiji Sakaguchi and Michiaki Yoshimura (12/12/71) I thought it would be very "topical" to look at this match from 1971 where Dory tags with none-other than WON HoF wannabe Dick Murdoch. We have quite a bit from this 1971 tour. This also gives us a chance to see Dory against guys other than Baba and Jumbo from this timeframe. Even though it's 1971, Dory already looks 40 years old. Of course, he' announced ahead of Murdoch, being the NWA World Champion and all. Yoshimura is announced last. The introductions to this one seem to go on forever, even longer than usual by Japanese standards. Murdoch and Yoshimura to start. Tentative. Murdoch even has a gut on him at this age. Amazing how little some of these guys changed physically in 15+ years. Murdoch applies a head scissors. Into an arm bar now. Yoshimura with an armdrag. And he takes over on the arm. Both guys tag out. It's Dory vs. Sakaguchi now. Immediately Sakaguchi works Dory's arm. Dory goes to a drop toehold into a leglock. "Falling" leglock now multiple times by Dory. I'm not just saying this now, but in these opening exchanges, Dory vs. Sakaguchi has been a hell of a lot more interesting than Murdoch vs Yoshimura. The counters are smoother, the work is more snug, and the level of struggle is better. Murdoch comes in to work on Sakaguchi's arm. Goes into a hammerlock. Clean break by the ropes. Headlock by Sakaguchi. Shoulderblock. Back into the headlock. Snapmare. Tags in Yoshimura. Front facelock. That all went nowhere. Dory back in. Yoshimura goes to a headlock. Spins round with it as Dory tries to escape. Dory tries to bridge out of it but he's block off. Headlock still locked in until Dory breaks it with a shinbreaker. Looks like he's going to do his "falling" leglock now but instead bridges over to stretch that leg. I'm sure this manouvre has a fancy name, but I don't know it, looks painful though. Interesting pinning bridge now by Dory. He's pulling out the fly matwork here! Murdoch back in. Sakaguchi back in. Down to an armbar. Sakaguchi turns it around. Wristlock. Murdoch manages to get an abdominal stretch in. Reversed into a hiptoss. Murodch tags out. Goes for his big butterfly suplex but Sakaguchi blocks it and Dory tags out. Elbow and collar tieup. Sakaguchi into a headlock. Wrenches it. Shoulder block. Flying headscissors by Murdoch -- good agility for a bigger guy. He's goes for a piledriver but Sakaguchi blocks it and reverses, for Dory to come in to intervene. Murdoch goes for the piledriver again, but it's not happening! Dory comes back in with a slap and multiple knee drops. Things are heating up here. Snapmare. Tags in Murdoch for the double-team Ole Anderson kneedrop. Dory's turn to do the kneedrop now. This is some neat tag work by these two. Elbow smash by Murdoch. Dory back in. NOW he hits the butterfly! And that'll do for the first fall. That was a really hot finish to the first fall. Great action and great tag-work by Dory and Murdoch working in tandem. I won't call it a FIP becasuse it ended with a pinfall, but that's essentially what it was, and a really good one. Second fall now and Sakaguchi has lost his temper. Big chop on Dory. Grabs him and shunts him down to the canvas. Bodyslam. Hiptoss. Armdrag. Sleeper! Dory looks like he's fading but Murdoch breaks it. Yoshimura in with a chinlock on Dory now. Irish whip and a backdrop. Dory's bumping quite a bit in this match. He goes for a slam but Yoshimura lands on top of him. Boston crab! Murdoch breaks it with a dropkick and that allows Dory time to tag out. This is turning into a good one. Full nelson by Yoshimura. He's throwing Murdoch around for fun now. Irish whip. Big pump-handle slam. Sakaguchi comes off the top with a stomp. Backbreaker! That gets two. Stomp now and big chops from Sakaguchi. He seems to grab Murdoch by the throat and lift him up! Sakaguchi is a pretty big guy. Mrudoch comes back though and gets a tag. They double team him and Dory hits an uppercut. Big chop exchanges now, and Sakaguchi comes out on top. Dory eats the turnbuckle and a slam. Yoshimua in with a couple of hiptosses. Dory tries to come back with uppercuts and a slam. Goes for his big butterfly suplex ... a hits it! Second one this mathc. Sakaguchi comes in and Dory tries to butterfly him too, but he can't get it. Sakaguchi reverses for the three count and the crowd erupts! That's one fall a piece. Dory and Murdoch strategise in the corner as this third fall starts. Nice touch. Sakaguchi and Dory start out, the former immediately gets an abdominal stretch on and Murdoch has to interfere to break it. Things get a bit scrappy now and neither guy is giving the other anything. Sakaguchi tags out. Dory positions Yoshimura for Murdoch to come off the top with an elbow. Murdoch in and BRAINBUSTER! Piledriver! Sakaguchi comes in to save the pin which really pisses Murdoch off. Nasty stomps from Murdoch on Yoshmimura's head now. Dory comes in and goes for an abdominal stretch which is reversed into a hiptoss. Goes for a backslide, which doesn't come off either and he tags out. Murdoch with a big atomic drop now and Sakaguchi breaks the count again. Dory meanwhile comes in and dumps Yoshimura to the outside and gives him an kneedrop before rolling him back in. German suplex by Dory gets 2. Backbreaker by Dory. Goes for a backdrop but gets a boot in the face and Yoshimura gets the hot tag to Sakaguchi and the crowd is going wild. Murdoch in and he starts kicking Sakaguchi in the stomach and face! Tag out. Dory comes in for the double butterfly suplex but they can't get Sakaguchi up and it doesn't come off. Dory grabs Sakaguchi for more doubleteaming. Murdoch misses an elbow smash and this allows Sakaguchi to hit a massive atomic drop for the 1, 2, 3. Wow, I wasn't expecting this to be anything at all, and this was a really good match. Both Murdoch and Dory were great here, and I also thought the performance of Sakaguchi as a firey younger babyface stood out on the Japanese side. The first and second falls were really good, and sadly I think they blew their loads a bit early here because the third fall almost couldn't live up to it, despite Murdoch hitting some pretty high artillery offense. In terms of our focus on Dory here, I think this is a good match to show how he'd changed from 1971 to the worker we see in the mid-80s. Dory is very agile here, full of neat bridges, quick counters, and he bumps about more. I guess it's not surprising that someone was better when they were 30 than when they were in their mid-40s. Add this one to the 4+ pile. **** Dory Funk Jr. vs Seiji Sakaguchi (12/09/71) Well after that, I want to see what Dory and Sakaguchi got out of a singles match. Footage is shaky here and seems to be from original TV rushes because there's a timer in the top left corner. Oh AWESOME Terry comes out with him wearing a long green coat and a hat. Amazingly cool. He looks like something out of a hard-bitten Noir novel. (This might actually be Dory Sr, it's hard to say because his face is obscured, but pretty sure it's Terry) Murdoch is also there. Headlock by Sakaguchi to start. Hiptoss. Into an armbar. Dory tries to jump himself out of it. Arm drag. Sakaguchi doing a good job of controlling this arm. Dory manages to get up for a clean break. Uppercuts but Dory. Immediately goes for the butterfly suplex but can't hit it. Shoves Sakaguchi down instead. Elbow and collar tieup. Headlock take over by Sakaguchi. Dory flips round into a wristlock. Break. Fireman carry take over -- he must have learned that from Jack Brisco! Sakaguchi gives him one back. Hammerlock by Dory. Sakaguchi bridges on his back while in this hammerlock. The Texans in Dory's corner are continuously shouting over. Surfboard by Dory now. Greco Roman knuckle lock now, Sakaguchi turns it around. Eventually he hits a shoulderblock and goes back into the headlock. Up to a vertical base, Dory hits a droptoe hold and goes into a leglock. "Falling" leglock now. But Sakaguchi struggles out of it before the second one and turns it around. Test of strength position now but it's quickly flipped over and they end up with Sakaguchi getting a body scissors on Dory. Some of these mat sequences are really very good. Dory reverses this body scissors into a modified Boston crab. Ends up throwing him away. Pin attempt by Dory ends up with Sakaguchi splitting his legs. If anyone wants to talk about Dory looking like he doesn't care, look at the way he sells the pain and struggle of this move! He punches his way out of this, and they get a clean break. Dory's leg is hurt and he's selling it huge. Sakaguchi goes after it and the crowd are excited. Dory bails. Terry comes over to massage his leg. Back in and Sakaguchi goes back to working this inner thigh muscle -- talk about psychology, this isn't just a leg, it's a specific part of the leg. Dory anages to get a headscissors on. Sakaguchi manages to break it. Headlock by Dorryand he lays in some knees and punches before a snapmare. Knee drop to the back of the neck. Elbow drop. Running knee smash. Uppercut. Sakaguchi comes back with chops. Slugfest now but Sakaguchi gets the better of it. Bodyslam. Crowd has been popped by all this. Another bodyslam. Shoulderblock. Backbreaker! That's a two count. Another bodyslam. Atomic drop. And that's it for the three count!! Dory's been pinned! Wow. I can only guess this is two out of three falls? Tape stops for a bit. Come on, is there a second fall ... Yes! Of course, wouldn't be like Dory to job especially not in 1971. Second fall now then. Action goes ouside. Dory slams Sakaguchi on the table. Snapmares him over the ropes in. Butterfly suplex?? Nope, can't hit it. Sakaguchi has a smile on his face as if to say "no, you're not suplexing me today!" Dory looks non-plussed. Strikes by Sakaguchi now and he goes for a Boston crab. Gets him over! Surely not for the second straight fall?!! No! Dory reverses into a pin, which is reversed. More blows from Sakaguchi now and a slam. Sleeper! Dory reverses into an abdominal stretch, reverses into a hiptoss! Sakaguchi foes for a headlock and Dory hits a back suplex for the second fall. Terry is so ridiculous in his coat and hat. Both guys are getting a lengthy massage. The gaps between these falls are quite long. Dory's had enough and goes to stomp on Sakaguchi. Hits a knee lift and a snapmare. Kneedrop to the back. Uppercut. Goes for a slam but Sakaguchi lands on top of him. He does his choke powerlift again. Dory comes back though and hits a knee drop. Adominal stretch attempt into the hiptoss. Gutwrench suplex by Sakaguchi. Another hiptoss. Bodyslam. Dory knees him straight in the head. Butterfly suplex! And that's do for the three! Well this wasn't as good as the tag match. The long gaps between the falls hurt the momentum of the match and I didn't think it built as excitingly over the three falls. Sakaguchi's offense is very repetetive and seemingly limited: apart from his strikes, he's mostly all hiptosses and bodyslams, which is pretty lame offense. He worked better as both the FIP and the hot tag in the last match -- not as good when having to carry stretches of offense. Dory was fairly spirited here, but by the third fall, it really seemed like they were out of ideas as they went to that abdominal stretch into the hiptoss sequence for maybe the third time. Not a bad outing, but this won't be a match to turn around Dory doubters -- unlike the tag match. I will say though, if you do watch it, look out for his facial expressions selling the chinlock in that first fall. *** Dory Funk Jr. vs. Butch Reed (2/3/82) Let's fast-forward a decade and see what Dory did against Butch Reed. Reed has a big afro here. This match looks like it was taped for Japanese TV but actually took place in the US somewhere, I'd guess Florida. Dory is defending his NWA International title, which is why it's on the All Japan TV -- seems like they used that title as a bit of a touring belt for a while there, but I know the UN title also travelled a bit too. PWF belt seems to have stayed more in Japan, although Baba did pin Race for it in St. Louis in 1983 and before that Abdullah in Chicago in 1979. Looks like Reed bulked up ALOT from 82 to 83 because he's relatively spry here. Still well toned, but not like STACKED as he would be in Mid South. Headlock takeover by Dory to start into a headlock. One of the things Dory does well is work a headlock with his weight so that it also doubles as a pin attempt -- don't always see guys do that. Eventually they break and Dory hits a shoulder block but Reed gets Dory up for a miliary press and dumps him like a sack of bones! Into the Irish whip again and Reed gets a bearhug on. Dory sells this pretty well. Again, watch him during this bearhug and tell me that he doesn't care, I increasingly don't get that criticism. Dory backs up and gestures for Reed to back off. I guess that's what you call the "thinking man's" beg off. Dory is holding his back, seems like that big military press hurt him. Headlock by Reed now. He wrenches this well. Dory tries to struggle out of it and charges for the ropes -- the entire ring seems like it moves about an inch! Dory wildly struggles with his headlock but Reed keeps it on. This is another thing Dory does really well: struggle to try to get out of a headlock. It's very logical to try to get out through movement, and yet you don't always see wrestlers do that. Break in the corner. Dory is still holding his back. I'm now wondering why Reed doesn't target it. Dory gets a headlock of his own now. Again, he positons himself right over Reed's chest, so it's a pin attempt. Rope running now and Dory eats a hip toss. He backs up into the corner again. Reed is getting frustrated. He goes for another headlock but Dory reverses into a back suplex. European uppercuts in the corner now, quickfire. Arm drag over into a headlock. Couple more nearfalls from this. Front facelock now. Three more uppercuts. Vertical suplex which the commentator calls a "brainbuster". Bodyslam. Elbow drop. Goes for another suplex, but it's reversed by Reed. But Reed is still groggy from all the punishment. Dory gets over for another uppercut. Reed comes back with forearms. Flying crossbody by Reed. Dory backs up into the corner again and lures Reed in for the knee lift. And then he dumps him out of the ring. He grabs Reed back up onto the apron now and gives him a forearm smash back outside. Uppercuts in the corner. Abdominal stretch. Reed struggles. Gets into a slide for 2. Dory hits a quick forearm to send Reed down like a chopped tree. Uppercut. Dropkick. Kneelift by Reed to come back. Big punch. Headlock. Rope running with leapfrogs and drops. Collision spot. Both men down. Piledriver attempt by Dory ends up getting him backdropped out of the ring ... but in the NWA that's an automatic DQ! Holy cheap cheap CHEAP finish Batman! David von Erich, who was Dory's tag partner at this time, comes out wearing a really ridiculous bandana with a feather in it. That brings out Reed's "brother" Sweet Brown Sugar. Dory bails. Von Erich grabs Dory's belt to pose. David von Erich as a heel looks pretty fun. I look forward to seeing more of that 82 run and feud -- I do have it somewhere, though how much is clipped I don't know. This was a decent 13-minute match. I thought Dory's psychology throughout was superb and they told a great story: Dory is the wily veteran, Reed is the young stud. Dory's clearly outpowered here, so he works this cagey as fuck. Constantly backing up into the corner where he's safe and can go for automatic breaks. He was frustrating the youngster and the crowd -- and this is great heel psychology. From that corner position, often, he was able to gain the advantage. Dory actually bumped around quite a lot for Reed considering his was 41 here. And he hit some big high spots too. Hurt by a cheap finish, and could have done with another five minutes or so, but won't hurt either guy's resume at all. ***1/2 Dory Funk Jr. and Terry Funk and Tiger Mask vs. Terry Gordy, Chavo Guerrero and Billy Robinson (10/21/85) Last match for tonight then. Man, look at these two sides. Funks with the young Misawa vs. the oddball combination of Gordy, Chavo and Billy Robinson. This will either be sweet or a clusterfuck. Chavo looks look at this age. Like an aging lothario who might just steal your girlfriend. Robinson is looking old. Gordy looks like classic Gordy. Terry has the goatee and looks as he does more or less in WWF. Dory is clearly getting on here and somehow, despite the fact that he does sorta look middle aged in 1971, he definitely looks 14 years older here. He actually ages quite a between between 82 and 85, it seems to me. Dory and Robinson shake hands. Well that's nice. Gordy and Chavo conspire. Dory starts out with Gordy. Dropkick by Gordy. They lock up. Headlock by Dory. Into a take over. Leans on it for the pin attempts, but Gordy also rolls him over for pin attempts. Crossbody by Gordon from the turnbuckle and Dory backs up. Lock up again, Robinson tags in. He's pretty saggy-looking in 85. Dory goes to tag out and it's clear that Robinson wants to face Terry. Dory goes to leave but then thinks better of it. Robinson goes over to encourage him to tag, but Dory's like "naw, actually, let's go me and you" Interesting psychology, I guess. So we get Robinson vs. Dory now. Christ, if Dory aged from 82 to 85, I don't know what the hell happened to Robinson, he looks horrible! Headlock by Robinson. He takes some time out to take a potshot at Terry. Thats' got Terry fired up. Dory want to calm him down. Robinson is begging him to tag, Terry wants to tag, but Dory is telling him to calm down and doesn't want to tag. These are some mind games here -- not entirely sure if they are effective ones, but mind games is what they are. Hammerlock by Dory, Robinson with a back leg sweep and over into a bridge pin attempt. That's him saying "don't you worry about me, Junior, I've still got it!" Backbreaker by Robinson! Over seven minutes into this match now and Dory hasn't tagged out. Chavo comes in. And goes to the headlock. Dory catches him with an abdominal stretch. Rolling cradle spot now and Terry's had enough. He tags in now and they go to the rolling cradle spot themselves. Terry tags in Tiger Mask and it's him vs. Chavo now. Dropkicks and backdrops. Arm drag by Tiger Mask. Flying crossbody. Fireman carry takeover by Chavo. Belly-to-belly suplex. Backdrop by Gordy. Dropkicks on Gordy by Tiger Mask. Funks in for a double forearm smash on Gordy. Dory in with uppercuts and a forearm block which levels Gordy. Terry comes in and finally now, Robinson has his chance. Jabbing from both guys now, but Robinson is able to twist Terry round for the Rick Rude neckbreaker. Gordy in and he punches Terry who comes back with punches of his own. Big slam by Terry. Funks dump Tiger Mask ontop of Gordy. Robinson in with uppercuts on Tiger Mask. Plancha by him out on top of Robinson. Bell goes for some reason ... has Robinson been counted out maybe? Must be. Well, this was quite fun, but things picked up after the 7-minutes or so of Dory slowing things down at the start. This is exactly the sort of match that would give someone the impression that Dory is "old and boring", because you've got Terry arguably at his peak looking great, all of the action with a guy like Tiger Mask, Robinson fired up and in the middle of it all, Dory is working very slowly -- and the CONTEXT just wasnt right for that style, which I do think you can blame on Dory not changing things up in a match like this -- even though you could argue that his psychology in keeping Terry and Robinson apart made for a better climax when they did finally face off later in the match. But I guess in a 6-man like this, you don't want someone slowing the action down as much as he did here. I also think it's clear that Dory has lost a step even from 82. Fun match, but not one of Dory's better outings. ***

Well, okay, I really like the Somers match and actually went ****1/2 on it. And I go about the same on the match with Rick Steiner from Chi-Town Rumble, which I think is Rotunda's career-best match. Maybe the others are lower. Although I probably like those two matches more than most.

DISCLAIMER, I'm not pushing Rotunda for top 100. But ... Poor Rotunda getting shit on from every angle. He had some very good performances in that feud with Rick Steiner right thought 1989. Would you agree at least that Rotunda has **** matches to his name? Mike Rotunda vs. Doug Somers 04/28/1986 AWA Mike Rotunda vs. Rick Steiner 12/26/88 (Starrcade) Mike Rotunda vs. Rick Steiner 02/30/89 (Chi-town Rumble) Mike Rotunda vs. Sting 04/01/89 (World Championship Wrestling) The Varisty Club vs. The Steiner Brothers 06/14/89 (Clash 7) The Varisty Club vs. The Steiner Brothers 07/23/89 (GAB) I enjoyed all those matches and reckon there's at least three **** affairs in there. Also, I continue to think he was perfectly cast as IRS: Listen to how nerdy and whiny his voice is and think about how perfectly it fits the character. (ASIDE: just look at Ted's kickass suit there!!) His character work -- outside of the ring -- is underrated. I'll never understand how Rotunda inspires the hatred he does while guys who have nothing fun at all to their names like Brad Armstrong get praise. Why? Why am I the only Rotunda defender on the entire board? Madness.

If everyone agrees to it, I would also like a lovely PDF document containing every single voter's personal top 100s.

I have zero memory of that match Joe. Sometimes it's a pain when one's old reviews are in audio form, so let me go back and see what I said ... This is from Clash II, WTBBP #26: Parv: So the next match here is Brad Armstrong vs. Barry Windham ... Obviously, Brad Armstrong rest in piece, he died recently. Armstrong was booed I noticed, when he came out. Was that just me? He didn't seem to get a very good reaction from the crowd. Chad: Yeah, I think some of that might be how established Windham was in Florida. I think this type of crowd might see Windham as a home-town-type person. But there did seem to be a lot of heel fans too, as we went along. A lot of the Horsemen seem to get cheered. And this was the first show, when the Horsemen seemed to be teetering on the cool heel side, a little bit. Where there were a lot of masculine guys in the crowd they show holding the Horsemen signs and stuff like that. Parv: Yeah, I did notice that Windham got booed too though, it's not like he got a babyface pop or anything ... Chad: Yeah, I mean it's not even like a mixed reaction like John Cena gets today, it wasn't that severe. But compared to mostly the Greensboro crowd, which plays everything by the book, and mostly the Atalanta crowd does too, this was kind of a little bit of a different type of reaction. Parv: Now, my notes for this match are a little bit sketchy because I had to fill in from memory after my laptop decided to reset itself, which is really irritating, when Windows does that ... y'know "Windows Updates" as if anyone cares ... All I can remember from the first half of this match apart from restholds and things, was a girl in the crowd with a "Traitor Traitor Traitor" sign, and another girl in the crowd eating popcorn ... ha ha. And so when my notes come back, Teddy Long is jawing Windham, and there's quite a lot of mention made by Bob Caudle that Windham has added the claw to his repertoire. And he's also wearing a black glove all the way through this match. We get a belly-to-back from Windham. A nice powerslam by him. Figure-four. Caudle mentions that Windham's got a lot of moves in his arsenal now that he's a Horseman, he's come on a lot in the past year or so. And he mentions that Dusty never lost the US title. Windham's the US champ by the way, and he won that title in a tournament in Houston -- which I found out from reading the Wrestling Observer from a few weeks ago. Windham's on top for the first few minutes, action goes outside where Windham plants Armstrong on the railings. Back in for a big bodyslam. He misses an elbow drop from the top rope which triggers Armstrong's comeback. We get a high dropkick. Gut punch. A knee lift. A bodyslam. Flying bodypress from the top. Windham gets a claw on Armstrong's cranium, which actually gets the three count. Now, I don't really like the claw as a finisher for Windham, what did you think Chad? Chad: I think I'm more of a fan of it than you are. I did think the von Erichs were able to use the claw pretty effectively as a finishing move. Obviously, it's kinda goofy, but I can get behind the wrestling logic that you're squeezing somebody's head if it was applied as a shoot would be painful. And I did like the finish here, where Armstrong whad a nice crossbody but Windham was able to roll through and immediately go to the claw, which would make his claw move seem like a great equalizer in the grand scheme of things ... I thought this was a pretty good match, but it took a while to get going though. The first few minutes were very rudimentary. Headlocks and a leg scissors with not a lot going on. And then Windham would go and regroup with Dillon and come back in. But once, I think, Windham went on offense ... the figure-four I think was some of the best heel work Windham had done, with cheating and collaboration from JJ Dillon. So I enjoyed that. He really did bust out a lot of offensive moves in that three-minute sequence ... a lot of power moves, coming off the top, just a lot of offense was displayed. Parv: We've seen this a few times from Windham now, takes a while to get going in his matches. But I think you're right ... unlike the Steve Williams match which never really got going, at least he unloaded some offense towards the end. It was just passable to me this match. ------- Hmmm, weirdly no star ratings from us there, we usually always give them, but from the sounds of it would have been **1/2 or *** from me. Maybe Chad a smidge higher. Match of the night went to Sting and Dusty Rhodes vs. Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard. Chad gave MVP to Al Perez, and me to Arn Anderson. What do you like in particular about that match?

Michaels is really hurt by three things: 1. His gimmick was "Greatest Wrestler Ever", and he was booked and promoted as such. In fact, wasn't he placed at #1 in their top 100 book that Larry Matysik hated so much? 2. Lots of people raised on WWE bought into and believed that. 3. He absolutely, definitively, based on any criteria you want to name, wasn't that. So backlash is inevitable. The question is: has it come too far? Personally, I find it really difficult to care about that question. If someone like a Loss or a Chad who has watched the bulk of the 90s stuff could point to 10 matches for me to rewatch at some point I'd be grateful, just as a referesher on 90s Michaels. As for 00s Michaels, aside from possibly El-P, I might be the biggest HBK detractor on the board. I don't like the Taker matches, I don't like the Flair match. I pretty much despise the style. Any and all DX stuff (90s or 00s) makes my skin crawl with embarrassment at its total and utter lameness. I hate him on the mic. I dislike his face. I dislike his character work. I hate sweet chin music as a finisher. Rockers-era Michaels I have some more time for, but I was more on Matt D's side of the argument for that cage match, and don't think it was particularly hard to stand out in the WWF tag scene of 1990. All-in-all I'm probably more down on Michaels than most. I actually like him best as a singles guy circa 1992-4 sort of time.

I give him very very little to no chance. Sort of guy who seems to be somewhat overrated by "smart" communities and I've never seen why, whether it's GCW, WCW, or UWF. I fully suspect someone is going to say "oh, but he was great in SMW and USWA". I'll give Brad THREE matches. If people can point to three matches worth watching that demonstrate that he was something more than the bland midcarder I've seen dozens of times before, then I might change my mind. Seems to me everyone shits on Mike Rotunda, but Brad gets an easy ride despite being more bland, and more boring, if anything. At least Rotunda has some memorable skits and promos to his name and at least three ****+ singles matches to his name that I can think of (vs. Somers in 86 AWA, vs. Rick Steiner in 89 WCW, vs. Sting in 89 WCW -- I also think he puts in an MVP performance at Clash 7 against The Steiners). What's Brad putting up against those three? [and Rotunda isn't close to my top 100 either]

I actually give Cena more of a pass here because it's very clear to see what constraints he's working under. I don't buy Johnny's line about Backlund taking instructions from the back at all, and I'm sure he pulled that from his ass in the moment -- and on a show in which he argued that most of the matches on the card were "go out there and give us 15 mintues". If you look at how Bruno and Pedro worked, it's pretty clear that they just worked matches however they wanted to. Pedro worked from underneath: he did it in the early 70s and he did it again during his IC run. I don't believe even for a single mili-second that Vince Sr or whoever else was back there telling Backlund to gobble up opponents -- just wasn't the way operations ran back then. They'd give them the time and the finish and that's about it. And we have matches of Backlund's from Florida and elsewhere with him pulling the same shit, so we're meant to believe Eddie Graham and Inoki were giving him these same instructions too. It's just utter bollocks and deep down, Johnny knows it. Sorry, don't want to detract from Cena chat. Although now we've brought it up, Backlund -- a guy who was on top for a long time, who not all fans bought into -- might not be a bad comparison point.

Since we compared Austin to Bruno recently, you could look at Bruno as someone who was a punch and kick guy who wasn't necessarily working brawls. And now you mention it, post injury Austin does have something of that working style about him.

Find it better to do these things in Microscope OJ, where reviews can get a bit of space from debate. I'll likely watch exactly the same matches when get to Cena.

Exactly the sort of match Matt D would want to look at to see what a guy can do in different contexts then. Also way too easy to say "oh it's the Hangman and this isn't a featured match so I don't care about it", which is essentially what you and Pete did. Not having a go, it's not hard to zone out on some of these cards, but give that match another look. Given how many nothing matches we've seen, I think to stand out like he did there says something. And so many guys including Yatsu, Tito, and others with good reps, haven't. Is that the first time we saw Martel in a singles?

Are these little potshots at the forum necessary? In my experience here, people are generally pretty willing to give credit where it's due, no matter the promotion or era.

Alright cool, it hasn't really jumped out at me when I've seen Cena before, so maybe Big Bad Mick can explain what he means exactly? My problem with Backlund is that he never shows any vulnerability. He's probably my number 1 example of a guy who bumps big without ever really selling. I also think that he's the closest thing we get to in wrestling to wrestler-as-superman. Only without the kryptonite. He doesn't really make comebacks because the heel never gets any proper time on top.

Is it true that Cena doesn't sell?

I think the guy was so sexy he didn't need to cut many promos. Not that it mattered in WWF where they'd had Pedro as champ who could barely speak English anyway. Maybe Arnold Skaaland could have actually done something for a change and did some interviews for him. Pretty sure Bock (or whoever it was) was talking about AWA though.

There is a full AWA TV show from I think 1974 which has a Bock / Stevens vs. Highflyers match in full on it. I have it lined up for my 70s + non-AWA Bock watching.

OJ, did you watch the match I mentioned above from 3/16/81? I think Martel looked great in 1980-1 and I recall someone (Bockwinkel?) saying that he should have been made champ at that point. I will say though that the WWF tag scene at that time sucks ass.

I thought the 8/31/85 Hansen/ Ted vs Jumbo/ Tenryu match was a **** affair.

Dibiase really should have won Rumble 89 instead of Big John Studd.

I don't see when anyone watched the stuff has to do with anything. But I get it, you won't be voting Dory. Exposer, I'll come back to the point about charisma later.