JerryvonKramer

I don't know if this is fair to Andre though because he was constantly in and out. In the 70s/ early 80s WWF we've watched on Titans, there *isn't* a 6 month period where he's consistently around. You'd have to pull up a Loss-style list to see all the different places he was working. I'd actually be pretty interested to see what Andre did -- let's say in the 3 months before and 3 months after the Kahn match in 82. I honestly don't see Blackwell as a big man, but simply as a "fat man". Seems like I'm really splitting hairs here, but I do think there's a genuine difference. Jerry Blackwell, John Tenta, King Kong Bundy, One Man Gang: fat men Don Leo Jonathan, Big John Studd, The Warlord, Mark Henry: big men Stan Frazier, Haystacks Calhoun, Giant Haystacks, Andre, Baba, Giant Gonzales: Giants

Not saying this to troll Joe, but Chad and I found Samoan Savage to one of the very worst workers in NWA/WCW pretty much consistently for all of his run. He was atrocious.

I can't think of a worker who embodies the idea of "hierarchy" more than Jumbo. But thinking about it, Loss has a point that he's kind of lovely to his partners. It's the lower card guys on the OTHER side who he treats with real disdain as if they were literally a piece of shit on his shoe.

It's October 1st, every month I'm going to track this just for fun. Month 1: 1. Ric Flair 173 replies 2. Daniel Bryan 63 replies 3. Bam Bam Bigelow 46 replies 4. Mitsuharu Misawa 43 replies 5. Jumbo Tsuruta 40 replies 6. Randy Savage 40 replies 7. Dick Murdoch 37 replies 8. Stan Hansen 35 replies 9. Haku/Meng 34 replies 10. Kurt Angle 32 replies Month 2: 1. Ric Flair - 178 replies (Last month: 1) 2. Shawn Michaels - 111 replies (NEW ENTRY!) 3. Daniel Bryan - 88 replies (Last month: 2) 4. John Cena - 81 replies (NEW ENTRY) 5. El Satanico - 60 replies (NEW ENTRY) 6. Stan Hansen - 57 replies (Last month: 8) 7. Hiroshi Tanahashi - 55 replies (NEW ENTRY!) 8. Mitsuharu Misawa - 53 replies (Last month: 4) 9. Kurt Angle - 48 replies (Last month: 10) Joint 10. Vader - 47 replies (NEW ENTRY!) Joint 10. Bam Bam Bigelow - 47 replies (Last month: 3)

Alligator story is very funny.

Check out their match against Tor Kamamata and Bulldog Brower from MSG, 4/21/80 (reviewed Titans #13). Bear in mind that Steamer/Youngblood never worked New York and that was a one shot. Listen to how quickly they get over with the crowd as well as what they do against such limited opposition. Obviously, there's Final Conflict as a highlight, but I'll be watching some of their matches against Jack and Jerry Brisco in the coming weeks (since once I'm done with Dory, Jack Brisco is next).

Started on Low Ki here: prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/29461-low-ki/

Low Ki vs. KENTA (12/17/05) This is from ROH. Elbow and collar tie up to start. Clean break. Roundhouse kick attempt by Kenta. Crowd bust out duelling "Let's Go Kenta" and "Let's Go Low Ki" chants immediately making me hate them. Headscissors by Low Ki. Arm wrenches. Kenta into a hammerlock. Reverse knife edge by Low Ki. Several stiff kicks by Low Ki now. Kenta comes back with several of his own. Some disrespectful kicks by Kenta now. Increasingly stiff chops back and forth now. Series of elbows in the corner by Low Ki. Spinning DDT-looking thing by Kenta that ends up as a gullotine over the top rop. Lariat from the top by Ketna for a 1 count. Snapmare and a kick to the head by Kenta. Kenta dumps Low Ki outisde now, and into the railings. More of these cheeky kicks from Kenta and a sly back heel into his head. More of these stiff chops back and forth now. Low Ki gets a kick in himself to know Kenta down. Drops him on the top rope and kicks him down. Low Ki now runs and jumps onto the top rope and jumps down on Kenta outside. Back in, and Low Ki with the disrespectful little kicks now and a European uppercut. Inziguri takes Kenta down again. Bodyslam. And again. Kick to the back. Cover gets just one again. Snapmare. Bodyscissors now. Kenta gets to the ropes. Sunset flip attempt by Kenta blocked and Low Ki gets in a double stomp for a two count. "Reverse bearhug" down on the mat by Low Ki now. Big chop by Low Ki. More of these kicks now with increasing levels of velocity. Low Ki smashes Kenta into the railings. A fan shouts: "Low Ki just fucked you up! Do it again Low Ki!" Ha ha. Double stomp from the top to Kenta's back now. Cover gets two. Scoop powerslam by Kenta is a desparation move during this onslaught. He's able to come back with a couple of dropkicks. Five kicks and a springboard dropkick by Kenta. Butterfly suplex into a bridge and a pin attempt by Kenta -- unusual suplex that. Falcon arrow by Kenta. He goes for a superplex but Low Ki blocks him, and Kenta falls down into a tree of woe. Low Ki with a double stomp to the face. More of these big chops now from Low Ki now which the commentator mentions is "very reminiscent of Kenta Kobashi". Kenta hits a "super Falcon arrow" for a nearfall which gets a "this is awesome" chant from the crowd and an eyeroll from me. More of the stiff slaps back and forth, Kenta gets the better of it for two. Kenta signals that that's enough with the Arn Anderson thumb across the chest, and he's going to finish it. Low Ki hits something for two. Both men down. Great Muta style handspring elbow by Low Ki. Kenta gets a two count with a tiger suplex. Kenta goes for his signiture combo but Low Ki floors him with a dropkick. Double stomp from the top by Low Ki gets two. Misses with a phoneix splash, Kenta gets Low Ki up into a airplane spin sort of thing and then kicks him on the way down. Flying knee strike seems to KO Low Ki and that's enough for the three. Crowd starts chanting "awesome match! awesome match!". Now we get "thank you Kenta! Thank you Kenta!". I couldn't dislike this ROH crowd more if I tried. "Please come back! Please come back!" These sorts of chants should be banned. Looking beyond the setting and crowd, which I just despise, I really didn't enjoy this. The strike exchanges were somehow stiff while lacking in either intensity or real hatred. I was trying to think about why these strike exchanges were nothing compared to Flair vs. Steamboat or Flair vs. Garvin or anything I've seen from All Japan. I think it's partly an execution thing. When the older guys hit the massive chops, they sort of give it time to sink in. There's a huge chop. Then they pause and the crowd catches their breath, then you might get the reply. Here it's just chop, chop, chop, chop and somehow despite the level of stiffness they start losing their impact. I didn't like the kicks either. From what the commentators were saying, both of these guys are known for their hard kicking, and we get a shit load of them here. While, again, they had real velocity, I felt that they didn't have the effect that they should have. Early on Kenta was just toying with Low Ki, almost playing with him with these little disrespectful kicks around his head. Now, the reaction I'd LOOK FOR from Low Ki there would be to get incredibly pissed off at this treatment, but that doesn't really happen. His expression never changes. The level of hate never ramps up. Since they started off chopping each other so quickly, perhaps the violence had nowhere to go, but that was really disappointing. I will say, that there was some surprising -- if only nominal -- attempts to work the mat here. We get some armwork near the start and there's a section where Low Ki works Kenta's midsection with a bodyscissors and a "reverse bearhug" which Kenta, to his credit, sold really well. But this honestly felt like watching a match on a computer game at times, Low Ki showed practically no emotion. I thought Kenta was a lot better at emoting and for me came across as being the much better worker here. While the endless strike exchanges seemed to go nowhere, the match did tell a story: Kenta for the most part worked from underneath with Low Ki dominating. Bizarrely, Low Ki's offense seemed to lack variation -- beyond the strikes and kicks, he went to the double stomp a number of times and I don't recall him hitting any real wrestling moves apart from a bodyslam -- not a problem in itself, but surpsiring. Kenta started ramping up his offense in the finishing stretch with some cool suplex variations, but it all lacked excitement for me. Very disappointing match, since I'd read in some places that this was bona-fide 5 stars and probably Low Ki's best match. Not a very promising start at all. *** Low Ki vs. AJ Styles vs. Jerry Lynn (08/28/02) This is a ladder match from TNA. Amazing to think TNA was around in 2002. There's something so sleazy about this TNA crowd and arena, there's a girl dancing in a cage. Styles has some awful hair that wouldn't be out of place on a British council estate from the mid-90s, he's just missing the Kappa tracksuit bottoms. Styles and Low Ki start out. Tilt a whirl backbreaker by Lynn on Low Ki. Surfboard by Lynn on Low Ki now. Crowd has been chanting "We Want Ladders". Styles breaks this up and stomps on Low Ki. Lynn with a vertical suplex on Styles, but falls sideways with it rather than back. Boston crab by Lynn on Styles. Low Ki hits a kick to his face which he no sells, so he kicks him again. After some other stuff, Low Ki picks up Styles and uses him as a battering ram against Lynn. Ladder involved now. Styles hits a baseball slide onto the ladder to send Low Ki flying. Styles sets up the ladder as a bridge from the safety rail to the ring. Lynn goes for a suplex on Styles outside, but he blocks it and throws him back to the apron. Low Ki and Styles are up on the ladder bridge now with forearms and a series of headbutts. Lynn gets involved and smashes both of their heads onto the ladder. He tries to take the ladder to go get the belt, Styles tries to take the ladder but Lynn hits a baseball slide to send him packing. He sets the ladder up. Low Ki is there though. He respositions the ladder and Styles creeps up behind him. Some forearms and knees from Styles now. Commentators say it's the most intense they've ever seen Styles. Lynn is back up now. Double hiptoss by Stlyes and Lynn on Low Ki into the ladder -- that looked far too choregraphed. Commentators sell it as one of the most incredible things they've ever seen. Ladder is in the corner now, Styles goes for a DDT but Lynn reverses with a release suplex onto the ladder. That was a cool sequence. Low Ki kicks Lynn's face now and "on instinct" goes for the pin. Ref reminds him of the ladder. Hurricanerana into the ladder now. Commentary is just fucking abysmal on this match. Styles goes to get the belt, but Low Ki stops him. Styles is stuck in a tree of woe on the ladder and Low Ki just kicks him in the head a few times. Pretty nasty. Low Ki goes for the belt now. Lynn stops him. Backdrop suplex by Lynn on Low Ki from the ladder now. Who is this commentatry team? Is it Mike Tenay and Don West? One of them needs to stop shouting -- is it Don West? Just the worst ever. Lots of things happen. Inverted DDT by Styles on Low Ki now. Styles throws a second ladder onto Lynn's head. Low Ki has a third ladder outside the ring. Chops in the corner between Styles and Lynn as Low Ki climbs that third ladder. Styles goes up too and takes a face shot on the top of the ladder. Low Ki applies the dragon sleep on top of the ladder. Lynn goes up too. Hits a punch on Low Ki. Styles goes flying. Low Ki maintains his balance on the ladder and bounces it off the ropes back up for. Commentators mark out for that. Lynn now ... oh he's not is he ... oh fuck ... PILEDRIVER from the fifth step of the ladder. Holy shit. Crowd rightfully chants "Holy shit!" That was mental! Low Ki might be dead. Styles is outside the ring. Lynn goes up for the X Division belt and that'll do. There was some very good action here even if it was a bit disjointed and (perhaps inevitably for a triple threat) lacking in psychology. Jerry Lynn did some innovative offense both in the ring and using the ladders. Sadly, I thought Low Ki was the weak link: for someone so athletic he seems very limited, and despite carrying a lot of the selling and big bumping load here again has trouble emoting. Lynn and Styles did a great job of turning this match from being a spotfest into something that felt more like a street fight at times. After about ten or fifteen minutes, it felt like things started to drag as the guys were running out of things to do, which somewhat hurts the flow of the match. But all that is saved by a phenomenal finish. Even though the cradle piledriver by Lynn is "very safe", it's a legitmate "holy shit" spot that I imagine people will remember this match for. And in fairness to Low Ki he really sold that piledriver well. ***3/4 Low Ki vs. Amazing Red (06/22/02) This is from ROH. Low Ki really looks like the sort of guy a 12-year old might generate on an XBox game, I think his look is hurting him in my estimation. They exchange some kicks at the start. There's some running and jumping now and the commentators go absolutely crazy. "Holy Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon!" "Oh my one of the most exciting opening minutes I've ever seen to a match!" "That was THE most exciting" So I have to stop it and go back to the start. What did I miss? Going to watch carefully ... Shake hands to start. Slap by Red. Kick by Low Ki. Roundhouse by Red. Stomping forward by Low Ki with strikes, misses with a stomp. He charges and Red gets his legs up. Low Ki poses like a dragon and roars. Okay, I didn't miss anything. The commentators go on and on about this. I don't know what they are talking about at all, make Tony Schiavone seem like he soft sells. Red with a body splash and some chops. Bulldog from the top. Kick to the face. Chop. I really don't like these commentators. Is one of them Steve Corino? I don't like commentators talking about "match of the year candidates". After 4-5 minutes they are calling this a potential MOTYC. Why? For what reason? I don't get this at all, it's actively detracting from this match. Just shut up already. The worst ever commentators. "The people, the sheets, the internet, the people in the know are all saying Low Ki is having a legendary set of matches!" Never been against anything so much in all my life. Flip spinny kicks and things now. One such kick sends Red to the outside. Low Ki sends him back in. Two count. Match is descending into a spotfest where the spots involve running and kicking. Ki Crusher attempt by Low Ki but Red reverses and flips over into a two count. Low Ki tries a powerbomb which is blocked. Reverse Frankensteiner. And Low Ki is down. Red with an "Infra Red" from the top, misses. Big uppercut by Low Ki. Low Ki gets Red up for the Ki Crusher again but instead runs and battering rams him into the turnbuckle. Red is out on the outiside. Back in. Low Ki with a twisting senton from the top which misses. Red kicks him in the face. Red tries a hurricanrana from the top but Low Ki blocks it. He comes crashing down with a *super* Ki Crusher for the three. Commentators put this over as another MOTYC, if that's true, 2002 wasn't a very good year for wrestling because I thought this was awful. Low Ki was working as a monster against Amazing Red's Spike Dudley, which had some good storytelling potential, but this was just utterly lacking in psychology and played to just about every Indie stereotype I can think of. Stupid spotfest where the spots weren't even that good. It's not looking very good for Low Ki, worst match yet. *1/2 Low Ki vs. Davey Richards (12/18/05) I believe this is from the EPIC WAR promotion. There can't be more than 50 people in this high school gym. Low Ki uses his body weight to try to hold Richards down to start. Keylock but we get a clean break. Collar and elbow tieup. Break. Tieup again. Low Ki goes into an armbar while he's on the top rope. Jumps down to the floor. Back to the feeling out process. Leg trip and Low Ki goes back to the arm. Hammerlock. Richards comes back with a single leg takedown. Low Ki kicks him in the face. Muta-style elbow now. Low Ki goes to a chinlock. Front facelock. Clean break. I have to say there's some interesting psychology going on here: Low Ki is bringing a ground mat-based game to counter Richards from doing any high impact moves. Richards comes back with a "Fujiwara armbar". I wouldn't have expected this much matwork from these two. Greco roman knuckle lock and Low Ki bridges back. Richards jumps on him. Low Ki kicks him in the side. Richards bridges back. And Low Ki jumps on him now. I've seen this sequence many times in 70s Dory Funk Jr matches. Again, wouldn't expect to see it here.This entire match has been worked on the mat so far. About 10 minutes in. Camel clutch by Low Ki. Richards gets on his own camel clutch now. Things pick up now and Richards hits a snap suplex. Headlock. Chop by Low Ki. Knee lift. Richards goes over. Cover gets two. Big bodyslam. Another two. Snapmare and a kick to the shoulders. Richards with his own snapmare now and a kick. Payback. Chops all round now. Low Ki seemed pissed off by Richards coming back with that. Low Ki carries Richards outside and dumps him on the wooden gym floor. Rolls him back in. Body scissors. Richards tries to come back but Low Ki cuts him off with a double stomp. He steps on Richards's hands. Pretty nasty. European uppercut. STO by Richards takes Low Ki down, but Richards is out too. Richards with some chops now. Belly-to-belly suplex by Richards. Running forearm in the corner. Roundhouse by Richards. Backbreaker thing by Richards where's he's on his back and snaps Low Ki over his knee. Richards with some pretty terrible forearms now. Low Ki with the Kobashi machine-gun chops. Gets two. Gordbuster by Low Ki. Big reverse knife edge. Several more. Spinning back kick by Richards. Inziguri by Richards sends Low Ki down. Tiger suplex! That gets two for Richards. Richards takes the turnbuckle off and comes off the top with a shooting star press! He misses! Low Ki goes to the top himself. Double stomp! Nasty! And that'll do for three. After the match they think about shaking hands. Well this was by far the best Low Ki performance so far. I was fully going into this execting it to be a meaningless spotfest but 75% of the match was worked on the mat and Low Ki actually used some pretty solid ring psychology. The main story here was Low Ki as the experienced guy working a ground game to stop Richards from busting out the suplex variations and he worked on top for about two thirds of the match. Richards became a plucky underdog and showed heart in trying to come back but Low Ki had too much for him. Match was hurt a little bit by being in such a rinky-dink venue with such a tiny crowd, but you can't blame them for that, they worked hard and pretty smart. By no means a brilliant match but there's some good basic psychology and it builds well towards the finishing stretch. ***1/2

I've not finished my Dory stuff yet, but it's already safe to say that these guys should by rights be top 5 at the very least and probably top 3 or higher. Very probably they will be my #1. I've talked about the "fire and ice" dynamic elsewhere, but just think about how cool this team is: two former NWA champions, brothers, one the brawler, one the technician. Both insanely respected in the business and both probably "legends" by the time you get to 1980. The closest thing we have to a long-term "super team". It's not a perfect analogy but it's almost like a 70s equivalent of, say, Bret Hart (Dory) and Stone Cold (Terry) teaming up. I think it's easy to forget that they were both legit stars in their own right. Dory was NWA champ from 69 to 73 and talked about everywhere as the best technical wrestler in the world. Terry was Terry. It's neat how they were able to get over independently and then tour the world as this super act. I am waiting for a Jack Brisco set to come through the post which lists quite a few tags with The Briscos from the late 70s and early 80s. I don't know how many will be just highlights and how many are full, but guys from that era always talk about that as one of the all-time great rivalries. I have hopes for those being of some quality. Whatever you make of the Abby/Sheik tags, they have some terrific matches in the 70s with guys like Baba / Jumbo and Bockwinkel / Lanza and others. I have really really enjoyed some of their mid-80s stuff so far and am looking forward to matches that were left off the AJPW set like those vs. Hansen/Brody and Hansen/DiBiase. Even if none of them are 5-star affairs, those matches surely can't be bad and the work from both Funks is never less than really solid. Just such a cool and legendary team who should be #1 contenders. They were arguably bigger stars than The Road Warriors. They were together longer than Arn and Tully. Unlike some teams, they were a "proper team". They have great matches, great feuds and many amazing moments. The key advantage that they have is that they were kind of their own bosses. No booker was ever going to make them turn on each other. They never had to split up. If Dory or Terry wanted to go on a singles run for a few months working an angle with Lawler in Memphis here or a run as Florida champ there, fine. If the other brother decided to make their way to the same place, then great they could work a few tags. They were able to maintain separate identities and careers while still legitimately being a regular tagteam. And somehow, they did so without appearing to be attached by the hip. THAT is truly unique. There just isn't another team who had runs in so many different places and contexts. In this case, blood is thicker than money.

We've been talking about versatility recently, especially as regards Jumbo. What do people think about Stan Hansen's range as a wrestler? Was he, like Vader, always kinda the same?

Just curious, but where people are saying Vader worked a variety of styles, can you give me some examples? I mean I like Vader a good bit, but I've seen him in AWA, New Japan and WCW and to my eyes he's more or less the same in all three contexts.

Really great work here stomper.

I am up for sticking to the deadline. The way this is working seems fine to me.

I am happy to watch matches of guys who genuinely have a realistic shot of the top 100. I intend on watching a decent sampling of Daniel Bryan for example. I'll happily even watch Tanahashi because a significant cross section of fans think he's a great worker. I'll watch Rey Mysterio. Kurt Angle. Cena. This isn't a period thing. I know it looks like it because everyone knows my leanings, but it's simply a case of "who is really worth my limited time?" I'll give you a good example. Paul Orndorff. Look at the responses in that thread: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/28881-mr-wonderful-paul-orndorff/ Nobody really puts Orndorff forward as a GOAT type candidate. Will dealt with him in two words ("no chance"). I'm not going to be spending an extra second watching Orndorff matches because I already know he's not a top 100 guy. If you remember I objected to The Mountie being nominated as a waste of time, because I don't see him making anyone's list. There's being comprehensive and then there's being ridiculous. I'm not looking at every 70s worker, I'm looking at ones who were pimped for at least a generation or more as GOATs. Guys who routinely finish top of Top 100 lists put together by respected historians and so on. Look at Matysik's Top 50. Guys like Billy Robinson deserve attention because a significant amount of people think he's one of the best technical wrestlers of all time. I was really asking, "who out of these guys is worth looking at REALLY?" There's no point in me spending 5 hours watching extra matches from a guy like Tonga Kid / Samoan Savage, he has no shot at the 100 at all. Is Quack worth the 5 hours? Maybe he is, I'm just looking for some good reasons.

Well I hate to state the obvious but it's because Harley Race had a rep as being on the of the best workers in the world and was NWA champ for almost a decade. Same reasons for Brisco and Dory Funk. Why watch Lou Thesz? "Because's he's fucking Lou Thesz" So missing out those guys is like doing a GOAT film project and not taking time out to watch Citizen Kane. Let's not pretend there is no context to this. Not considering Quakenbush isn't like not considering Citizen Kane, it's like not considering I dunno You Me and Everyone We Know, the indie movie from 2005 which had some mild buzz but people don't really talk about. I hope you understand where I'm coming from here. Honestly not trying to be a dick, but it feels like I am coming across like that.

Well I don't want to discount it, but are you seriously asking me to consider Bobby Fish alongside Ric Flair, Lou Thesz, etc.? This is a GOAT project, I'm going to start with the all-time greats. I've seen some of them, I've not seen all of them. I guess the real question is ... well is there any point in even considering these guys? Why? I'm not trying to be a prick here, but it's like ... in considering your greatest actors you're going to start with the Brandos, Hoffmans, De Niros, etc. not the part-time dude doing a fringe show that's getting buzz in your local theatre. Extreme example, but I just can't really see the point in even considering Quakenbush if he doesn't have a hope in hell anyway, it's literally a waste of time. Whereas Jim Breaks might have a real shot, so it's not a waste of time.

I'm trying to think of a way to put this without coming across as being massively heelish, but is there any reason at all for me to waste mY time on any of these guys where we're meant to be considering everyone from Lou Thesz and Buddy Rogers to CM Punk and Daniel Bryan? Given that most of us are having to catch up on stuff like WoS and filling in significant gaps elsewhere, there has to be a priority list and to be brutally honest these guys are right at the bottom of that list. If anyone can think of compelling reasons to elevate them higher than that, I'm all ears, but that's where I am right now.

As far as I know Moolah had a really bad impact on Penny Banner's career who was a big star in the 1950s as AWA Women's Champ (famously, she even dated Elvis). When she married Johnny Weaver, who was a homesteader in Mid-Atlantic, naturally she had to try to relocate to the Carolinas, but Moolah had Mid-Atlantic on lockdown and limited her dates, stopped her being billed as women's champ, forced her to work babyface, and effectively put her into semi-retirement when she should have been at her peak as a draw -- and Banner was legit a much bigger star than Moolah ever was. Generally just a nasty person in the business, who did more harm than good.

Can we also have a Catweazle match just for fun?

Yes, I guess we do differ. The sheer outrageousness of the villainy was part of my real enjoyment. As I said somewhere, they were like Dick Dastardly and Mutley. The fact that the cheating is so blatant and they are still getting away with it, adds to the overall sense of injustice. EVERYONE can see it, but the ref can't. But think of times when you're watching sport when it feels like everyone in the entire stadium has seen the penalty and the ref gives a goal kick. It does happen. What's funny is that the ref keeps on checking to see if the object is there, and they simply switch up and pass it to their partner. Let's say the ref's checking Sheik, he'll hand it off to Abby. And then even then while the ref's back is turned, Abby will have the cheek to use the object again. The push it to the extreme limits of cheating -- as I've said, in an environment where they are used to clean breaks. It's not difficult to see how The Sheik was able to cause riots. I've seen Lawler do this stuff, but I think Sheik does the best foreign object work I've ever seen in those matches.

A lot of the 1970s AJPW undercards feature guys who would hang around them for years like Fuchi and Kimura, who worked fairly clean. A young Onita is on almost every card as well. I'd be interested to know how he worked in those days. I'd imagine he wasn't working death matches, but it's interesting to know that he was there when the Abby/ Sheik matches were happening. Guys like Texas Red (Red Bastien) and The Destroyer (Dick Beyer) are on a lot of cards as well. I can't remember seeing a single Texas Red match from Japan. The G+ classics tend to feature the "big name" guys, so Jumbo, Baba, The Funks etc. are all very well documented, but (for example) there's not a single undercard Onita match from the 70s on them.

Excited to watch some of this stuff. Thanks for this OJ.

I know that Akira Fukuzawa was the screaming 90s AJPW commentator. [/size] I kind of want to know who were guys were before him. There's one from the 80s who usually does play-by-play with Baba on colour. I was trying to work out if it's the same guy in the 70s. Basically, I am trying to work out if there's a AJPW equivalent of a Gordon Solie or Bob Caudle who Mr. Orgasm replaced.

Honest question: is this true when we look at whole cards? Honest answer: I don't know because almost all the 70s AJPW I've seen are matches that were selected on the AJPW Classics G+ series, which don't tend to show full cards. Maybe jdw or OJ might know this. Basically, the cards that had Abby and Sheik on them would have ridiculous rulebreaking in them, but all of the other matches I've seen from that promotion at that time, don't.

I dunno if we're on different pages in terms of what we look for in a match, but I didn't really enjoy this. I do think from a live perspective this would have been awesome though. I thought that the over use of foreign objects in a straight match takes something away from my enjoyment. I may need re-education to AJPW referring in the 70's - do they basically do the same as the AJW referees in the 80's in terms of pretty much anything goes? 70s AJPW is usually pretty straight-laced with clean breaks and shaking of hands, as per the longer matches featuring Jumbo, Billy Robinson, Baba and others. You don't get that much rulebreaking, and when you do it will be subtle stuff like one guy dumping another one out of the ring rather than locking up. The weapon usage in the Abby-Sheik matches is all illegal, but if you watch carefully, they conceal it maserfully. They work in such a way that the ref can never see what's going on but the crowd can. Just through body positioning, hiding the object, distraction, riling up the other guy on the outside, and so on. ABCs of heel tag wrestling. Personally, I think it's really world class heeling, and great psychology which got them very over with a crowd that is not often predisposed to boo. Incidentally, I think the official ruling on that match is a DQ for the Funks, who had been pushed to extremes by all of this. It's all cool though, I don't expect everyone to like the same things. You can see my review linked above for what I liked about it.