NintendoLogic

This doesn't address my point. You can get in on straight work if and only if a substantial contingent views you as the greatest performer they've ever seen/worked with and the reason they got into the business. Whether you personally agree with that assessment is immaterial. You also probably need a run as a main event-level star in a major promotion (see also, Styles and Danielson). Have you ever laid out the case for him on any public forum? Most of the arguments I've seen for him boil down to "he was really famous" and "the drawing standards wrestlers in other regions have to meet shouldn't apply to him because reasons."

I'm officially All In on Ripley after her match with Io. She grabbed the hell out of that brass ring in a match she wasn't even supposed to be in.

Saying that Shawn got in "off just work alone" seems to be an attempt to elide the issue. When he was still on the ballot, Dave would note that there's a generation that views him as the greatest in-ring performer of all time or close to it. So yes, you can get in off work alone if you're a GOAT candidate. I don't know of any substantial contingent that views Breaks or CIMA or the like in that way.

There's also been an issue recently with American voters with no knowledge of the region voting for Big Daddy for the lulz and hurting everyone else's percentages.

Somebody on the F4W board started a thread called "So, who's ready for Crown Jewel?" and posted this. It made me laugh harder than it probably should have.

Good for them if true. It'd be pretty amusing if this event ended up being the catalyst for unionization in the industry.

I had always avoided this match for obvious reasons, but I figured I owed it to myself to see a match with this degree of notoriety at least once, so I decided to give it a watch. And color me shocked, I thought it was legitimately great. The story of the match was about as straightforward as it gets, but it worked for me because they both had enough quality mid-range offense to keep things interesting before they started going for the big bombs. Also, the shifts in momentum felt earned for the most part. They had to hit big counters before they could mount any sustained offense because they'd get cut off otherwise. It probably helps to know that the quasi-Regal Stretch Kyoko kept going for was a legitimate finisher (it's called the Spider's Nest, and she beat Toshiyo Yamada with it to win the All Pacific title at Wrestling Queendom in 1994). By the time Toyota was worn down enough for her to get it in, Kyoko herself was too worn down to apply it properly, so she had to go back to throwing bombs. That's a nice psychological wrinkle I wasn't expecting. Toyota being too exhausted to get Kyoko up for the Japanese Ocean Cyclone Suplex and having to settle for a straightjacket German near the end was another nice touch. Kyoko's selling down the stretch is what made really this match, but Toyota being able to fly around the way she was more than 50 minutes in was nothing short of astounding. Also, I could have sworn I heard the commentator say "Sabu desu ne" when Toyota hit the splash onto the table. I used to think it was a travesty that this match won the WON MOTY award for 1995, but now that I've seen it, I think it's as worthy a candidate as any non-All Japan match from that year.

I actually kind of like the idea of honoring Warrior by celebrating people he had nothing but contempt for during his lifetime. It's like they're putting his memory to good use by undoing his life's work.

Believe it or not, I just watched this match for the first time. Two things that I wasn't expecting stood out for me. One, even though I've seen it on a million video packages, Undertaker throwing Foley off the cell still felt shocking because it came pretty much out of nowhere. There was no build or teasing beforehand, they brawled on top of the cell for a bit and then Taker just threw him off. Two, the bulk of the match actually took place after the two huge bumps. I have no idea how Foley was able to keep it together and work a match after what he went through.

I believe the story is that Edge was never seen as a tippy top guy until the live sex celebration did a huge quarter hour.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about tonight. I'm just asking whether WWE's involvement with Saudi Arabia is really that much worse than the things Vince has been directly implicated in over the years.

If I can play devil's advocate for a moment, it this really that much worse than covering up a murder?

They'll probably treat it like an episode of Raw in a city Vince doesn't think is big league enough to mention on the air.

Let's recall how quickly and readily WWE talent piled on Dave after his Peyton Royce comments. But none of them can bring themselves to make a principled stand when things are about as black and white as they get in the real world? Fuck the whole lot of them.

What makes you think that? It would mean that either they've decided to jump without even knowing what WWE would offer them (highly unlikely) or they've already negotiated and reached an informal agreement (which would be a tampering lawsuit waiting to happen).

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/news/politics/2018/10/12/knox-mayor-kane-wwe-saudi-arabia-jamal-khashoggi-disappearance/1612304002/ He must think he's bulletproof, because I can't imagine someone who cared about public opinion putting out a statement this tone-deaf.

I am skeptical of strategic leaks when the leaks are clearly counterproductive to the interests of the supposed leakers. I'm also skeptical that someone who's been dealing with professional carnies for 30-plus years is completely oblivious to when he's being worked.

Do you have anything to contribute to the discussion or are you just shitposting?

My argument is that whoever relayed this to Dave did it in earnest and not as part of some 11th-dimensional chess negotiating strategy or a CYA move if/when they do jump. I don't think Dave is either dumb enough to allow himself to be manipulated in such a manner or unethical enough to put PR disguised as journalism in his newsletter. WWE would back up the money truck if it meant kneecapping their biggest rival. And again, the way to get WWE to do that is to make it known that you love working for New Japan and it would take a pretty hefty offer to make you consider leaving. I'm sure that if Omega and company were consulting Dave on negotiation strategy, he'd tell them the exact same thing.

WWE can lowball you and New Japan can call your bluff if they think you're looking to jump ship. If you're trying to negotiate a bigger payday, it's to your advantage for them to think you're happy where you are and it would take a significant offer to get you to consider changing your mind. WWE paid out the nose to sign Styles and Nakamura because they thought that was the only way to get them to jump.

Why would the Elite want to leak information that would undermine their bargaining position, true or not?

For what it's worth, Dave on WOR said it went beyond the Elite and specifically mentioned "people you would never expect to leave."

What about Kane? You'd think an elected official, even a local one, doing business with Saudi Arabia right now would raise some eyebrows.

I'm kind of surprised Io hasn't hit the moonsault cleanly in either of her matches so far. I hope it's just nerves.

That's the Kamigoye, my dude.