NintendoLogic

Why does it have to be a Canadian? Are you trying to stack the deck and make it seem like the only way someone could see Bret as an all-time great is due to hometown bias?

Oh, my.

I'd be down for that.

The Lawler/Funk no-DQ match would be my overall #1. The appeal of Hansen/Andre has always been lost on me.

There's also the fact that the company in question has a track record of delivering disappointing payoffs. It's perfectly reasonable for people to be apprehensive when they read something that sets off alarm bells.

But he isn't. That's the key point.

Thirty points to NintendoLogic for getting on the Arn Anderson, Super Agent bandwagon. How many points is being Dylan's Boswell worth? Because you maxed out a long time ago.

I don't know when people decided that leg selling requires you to spend the entire match lying on your back in agony, but that's pretty ridiculous. Things like hitting a tombstone and then selling the impact on your leg or temporarily blocking out the pain to hit a dropkick are perfectly acceptable.

I don't know why Jerry is still so bent out of shape about the Flair/Bret thread that he has to bring it up in threads that have nothing to do with either guy. If it bothers him that much, he should probably seek counseling. Anyway, can someone point me to specific Edge matches that showcase his lousy offense? I haven't watched any Edge matches in a while, and his offense never made an impression on me one way or another.

Sounds to me like the main difference between Cena and Tanahashi is that Tanahashi doesn't have Arn Anderson to put together matches for him. Also, I don't see where Okada is blowing off body part work to get his shit in. If anything, the opposite is true: he acts like he's crippled even when his opponent has hardly done anything to his leg.

We need a thread dedicated to alternate fanfiction storylines for famous All Japan matches.

What can I say? Tanahashi isn't someone like Vader where his strengths immediately jump out at me. I think he's someone for whom the whole is greater than the sum of individual parts. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's a miracle worker. I thought the Ishii match was weak because it was built around offense and striking, which we've already established are not areas of strength for Tanahashi. I would also say that he benefits from working with guys like Okada who will go the extra mile to put over the limb work. With that said, I think he's very good at working his particular style of match. If I were to point to specific things I like, I guess it would be match structure and limb work. Tanahashi's matches generally have a clear narrative flow and logical progression from one segment to the next, which is a big deal to me. As for his limb work, you can criticize the mechanics all you want, but I'm much more concerned with the payoff. If Tanahashi works a limb, it'll usually factor into the finishing stretch in some way. I don't know how many guys are active today for whom that's consistently true.

I'd offer the same defense I would for Cena: he consistently has good matches. Like Loss, I'm much more concerned with a wrestler's output than a list of attributes. You could pick both guys apart on a micro level, but they manage to put it together on a macro level. I will defend Tanahashi's leg work. It's not filler, it's part of his strategy. His finisher is the High Fly Flow, and the most common counter is to put your knees up. If he damages his opponent's leg, he makes it so they can't capitalize even if they do block it.

I'd like to be pointed to some examples of Tanahashi fans giving Suzuki the bulk of the credit for their match. Because I've only heard it from people inclined to dislike Tanahashi.

If you expect a certain level of stiffness from Japanese wrestling, I can see how Tanahashi's offense would be an issue. Stiffness is something I neither expect nor particularly desire, so I have no issue with him working light. I wouldn't call him a strong offensive wrestler, but he's adequate.

Was Brody better than Sylvester Terkay?

For what it's worth, I can't stand Ishii either.

I don't want to turn this into a Tanahashi thread, but I don't understand what's so terrible about his offense. I guess the Sling Blade is kind of weak, but everything else looks fine. As for Sasaki, I guess I just don't get the appeal of guys taking turns chopping each other for ten minutes.

The funny thing is, this is how I feel about Tanahashi.

Kenta Kobashi vs. Takao Omori All Japan Pro Wrestling, 4/15/00 From what admittedly little I've seen of Omori, he strikes me as by far the lesser half of No Fear and a giant load in general. Kobashi, on the other hand, is still in his big moves overkill phase. The first few minutes are pretty uneventful with Kobashi doing chops, Omori doing European uppercuts, and both busting out chinlocks. Kobashi takes control after whipping Omori into the guardrail (it should be noted that Omori does the Bret Hart sternum-first bump) and works an abdominal stretch when they get back in the ring. Omori gets back into it with a football-style shoulder tackle. Things really start to pick up starting with a struggle over a vertical suplex. Omori eventually gets tired of struggling and dropkicks Kobashi's right knee. From there, he piles on the damage, ramming Kobashi's knee into the ringpost and doing a shinbreaker through a table. He goes for a chair, but KYOHEI~! ain't having that, so he settles for a leglock on the outside. Back in the ring, and Omori applies a figure four. After Kobashi makes the ropes, he goes for a scorpion deathlock. Kobashi puts up too much of a struggle, so Omori rakes his eyes. OK, that was pretty cool. After making the ropes again, Kobashi hulks up and makes his comeback by chopping Omori in the head. That couldn't have been too pleasant for either party. Omori eventually cuts him off with a swinging neckbreaker and a missile dropkick. Kobashi goes for a rolling chop, but Omori ducks and hits a pair of rolling dragon suplexes. Kobashi evens things up with some rolling chops and a release German. Running neckbreaker drop follwed by a half nelson suplex gets two. Scoop slam and fist pump from Kobashi, which means it's moonsault time. Omori cuts him off by going after his bad leg (nice to see the leg work wasn't completely forgotten) and powerbombs him. Diving knee drop from Omori gets two. We then get a do-si-do sequence as both duck the other's lariat attempts and Omori hits a spinning heel kick. He finally hits the Axe Bomber, but it only gets two. Omori goes for a second one, but Kobashi counters with a sleeper, leading to a sleeper suplex. He then goes for a powerbomb. Omori counters but runs into a LARIATO~! It only gets two, though. Kobashi goes for the powerbomb again, but then he just kind of drops Omori. It looked like a botched attempt to powerbomb him into the turnbuckle. Kobashi is unfazed, and his second attempt is successful. Some more rolling chops are followed by a second half nelson suplex. Omori wakes up with an Axe Bomber, but Kobashi completely no-sells it and blasts him with a LARIATO~! Normally, something like that would piss me off, but I can see it as Omori being so drained that he couldn't put anything behind it. Besides, it's Omori, so fuck him. Kobashi picks Omori up for another LARIATO~! and finally puts him out of his misery. The beginning was rather nondescript, and the end was quite excessive, but the middle portion was where it's it. You know, you could say that about a lot of Kobashi matches. There's a fair amount of Kobashi goofiness (as jdw would say) for those who hate that sort of thing, but the good far outweighs the bad. This will likely finish somewhere in my top half.

So I'm officially throwing my hat in the ring for this project. I've decided to start with the 103 bolded matches and subtract the three Big Japan deathmatches because the style makes me physically ill, leaving me with an even 100. We start off with a doozy. Jun Akiyama vs. Mitsuharu Misawa All Japan Pro Wrestling, 2/27/00 Misawa gains control in the opening minutes after an exchange ending with a dropkick. Akiyama catches his first break after countering a diving headbutt attempt by Misawa, and things really start going his way after he drop toeholds Misawa neck-first into the guardrail. Akiyama spends the next few minutes introducing Misawa's neck to various inanimate objects, culminating in an Exploder on the ring apron. Say what you want about Akiyama, but the guy knows how to target a body part. Once the action returns to the ring, Misawa tries to get back in it with some elbows, but Akiyama cuts him off with a DDT. From there, we get a lengthy stretch of Akiyama working various neck holds, from a quasi-Koji Cluth to a reverse cravate to a chinlock to a figure-four headscissors. The inevitable Misawa comeback begins when Akiyama applies a sleeper. Misawa pushes Akiyama into the corner and hits him with a back elbow and a springboard dropkick. After taking a few moments to recover from the beating he took, Misawa busts out the facelock, which gets two after they do the whole "guy passes out from a hold so the guy applying the hold goes for a pin" deal. Just when it seems like it's going to be just another day at the office for Misawa, Akiyama catches him with a dropkick on the top turnbuckle and knocks him to the outside. Akiyama then takes the opportunity to reintroduce Misawa's neck to the guardrail with a calf branding. Back in the ring, and Misawa's neck takes more damage from a Gotch-style tombstone piledriver and a diving elbow smash. Exploder gets two, and the Budokan is on the verge of exploding. Unfortunately, Akiyama then applies a neck crank, which sucks the air out of the building. After Misawa makes the ropes, Akiyama goes for a brainbuster, but Misawa hits a spinkick. German suplex hold from Misawa gets two, as does a subsequent Tiger Driver. Misawa then goes for the Emerald Flowsion but settles for a release German. A second Tiger Driver gets two. We then get a rolling elbow, Exploder, pop-up, second Exploder, delayed sell sequence. Akiyama makes it to his feet first and hits an Exploder and a brainbuster. He finally puts Misawa away with a wrist-clutch Exploder. They were working holds a bit too long for my tastes, and the no-selling at the end was pretty annoying, but this was still an incredibly well-worked and smartly structured match. It's not quite on the level of the 90s classics, but it's not that far off. I'd be shocked if this ended up outside my top five.

My top five would go something like this (in chronological order): Keiji Mutoh vs. Vader, 8/10/91 Masahiro Chono vs. Keiji Mutoh, 8/11/91 Antonio Inoki vs. Vader, 1/4/96 Riki Choshu vs. Shinya Hashimoto, 8/2/96 Shinya Hashimoto vs. Kazuo Yamazaki, 8/2/98

But Dave would say that even if we're comparing 80s matches to other 80s matches, we're doing it from a 21st century perspective. He's also said that if a match is thought to have sucked when it happened, it still sucks even if it ages better than matches that were considered great. So I ask again: if that's the case, is there any value to watching old matches, to say nothing of discovering previously unknown footage?

I've rewatched Punk/Lesnar several times, and it's had such a profound impact on me that I've had to adjust my list. Sorry, Portland.

It's official. Punk/Lesnar is my current 2013 MOTY.