NintendoLogic

All excellent reasons to induct the Matsunagas into the HOF. But given that the system was designed for the stars to have short careers and be easily replaceable, the wrestlers have a tougher case as draws. Selling out a bunch of mid-sized venues for four or five years is nothing to sneeze at, but it's not really HOF-worthy on its own. What puts the Crush Gals over the top is their ringwork and historical impact. As an aside, if the Beauty Pair were such a big deal, why isn't Maki Ueda in the HOF? And shouldn't the Black Pair be in as well?

For what it's worth, I don't know if any of the joshi stars merit inclusion based solely on drawing power.

Just to be clear, I'm not using the 10k thing as a hard cutoff (in fact, I think Farmer actually supports Daddy being in the HOF) but as a convenient shorthand. If you want to make a case for someone based on drawing power, there has to be tangible evidence of that person putting asses in seats. Just being famous isn't enough because it opens the door to guys like Ultimate Warrior and Goldberg. I clipped the part about the High Flyers because it's not really relevant to the conversation. Neither the Flyers nor the Midnight Express have a case based solely on drawing power. With Daddy, that's all he has. But when you compare him to similarly situated guys like Hulk Hogan and Billy Graham, he doesn't really stack up. Like I said earlier, if the Joint Promotions business model was based around a bunch of mid-sized houses that de-emphasized individual wrestlers, then anyone who worked primarily or exclusively for them is going to have a tough case based on drawing ability. Mick McManus and Johnny Saint at least have their in-ring ability to point to, and Kendo Nagasaki apparently drew decently in Calgary. I don't really have an opinion on Rose's overall candidacy, but I do think that his record as a draw in Portland shouldn't be enough to get him in. But he also drew in San Francisco, headlined in the WWF, and was a talented worker. If Daddy had some good matches to his name and got over in promotions that weren't owned by his brother, I'd be more sympathetic. Hey, I'm not saying that benefiting from nepotism is an automatic disqualifier. HHH definitely isn't as big a deal as the WWE makes him out to be, but he's still an easy pick for the HOF based on the numbers.

That raises the question of why wrestlers from the UK should be held to different standards than wrestlers from the US or Japan or Mexico or anywhere else. Qualifications for the WON HOF work on a sliding scale. The worse you are as a worker, the better you have to be as a draw and vice versa. With Daddy, his in-ring work is a significant detriment, so his drawing power is all he has going for him. If that doesn't hold up, he has no case at all. Actually, they did run Wembley on certain occasions, like for Daddy/Haystacks. It seems pretty clear that they would've run more shows there if they thought they would've drawn. That they didn't is a pretty damning indictment. If the product was a draw rather than any individual wrestler, then nobody from World of Sport has much of a case. All things considered, becoming a TV star when your brother owns the promotion and there are only three channels isn't that much of an accomplishment.

Brock did not look like just another guy. He physically dominated HHH in a way I can't recall happening since Hunter became a top guy. And he didn't need ref bumps, international objects, or Heyman interference to do it. To top it all off, he no-sold a Pedigree (!) and made HHH tap in the middle of the ring.

The big things are that the numbers don't support the notion that he was a HOF-caliber draw (you can count the number of 10k+ houses he headlined on one hand) and that he's universally regarded as a joke. Yes, he's a cultural icon and a household name. But so is Tinieblas. I suppose, if you consider his role to be a fat sack of shit who never bumped, sold, or gave his opponents anything. Moving on, here's a Dave post about his role in the voting process and luchador representation in the HOF.

I liked HHH/Lesnar a lot myself. Maybe I was just pleasantly surprised because I kept expecting HHH to make his big comeback and it never happened.

I understand the argument against him, but I don't see how he's a "horrible" candidate in a World where guys like Jericho and Saito are getting in I'm not going to make a case for Jericho or Saito, but they at least had lengthy runs as highly respected workers. Daddy was, by a huge margin, a worse worker than anyone currently in the WON HOF. To make up for that, he needs to be absolutely bulletproof from a drawing standpoint, like Hogan/Sammartino level. From what I've read, he was only a strong draw from 1977 to 1981, which is more than negated by his role in killing not just a promotion but an entire country. The more I read about Daddy, the more convinced I am he's a joke candidate.

Also, Big Daddy is a horrible candidate.

As I understand it, the top babyface tag team in the Carolinas was Johnny Weaver and George Becker. The shift began after Becker left the territory in 1971. In 1973, George Scott became the booker, and he brought in Wahoo McDaniel and Johnny Valentine, who completely changed the style.

So will Bastien get the death bump this year?

Resident Evil isn't around anymore to conduct a survey on the matter, so there's no way of knowing. In all seriousness, though, just about everyone with half a brain thinks Memphis is awesome. Cue the Meltzer quote comparing Memphis wrestling to indoor soccer.

When do Punk, Danielson, and Mistico become eligible? They're the only strong candidates coming down the pike I can think of.

I recently rewatched Benoit-Finlay from Judgment Day. I've been pretty critical of the match in the past, but it's starting to grow on me. The most striking thing to me is how Finlay-centric it is. Calling it a carry job may be going to far, but Finlay provides basically all the structure. All Benoit really does is throw some chops and hit his signature spots. Looking back, it kind of makes me wonder if Benoit was already starting to show signs of mental decline at that point.

The interesting thing about HHH is that he clearly has some grasp of his limitations, as evidenced by his preference for gimmick matches. On the other hand, his matches tend to be incredibly bloated. I'd be hard-pressed to think of a single major HHH match that wouldn't benefit from being trimmed by at least ten minutes. Maybe he thinks that long matches come with the territory of cosplaying as touring NWA champ. Regardless, it's an interesting blind spot.

When I tried to make a list of wrestlers who had a strong case for being ranked above Cena, Taker and Jericho were both on it. Not that they're definitely better than him, but it's close. Cena is clearly above Sting and Luger, though. Hart and Austin are clearly better. Rock is probably better, though he's hurt by so many Attitude Era matches being heavily gimmicked and/or overbooked. As for Hogan, the case can be made that peak Hogan beats peak Cena. But Cena has the edge in terms of week-in week-out performance and sheer volume of good-to-great matches.

While checking out WKO, I came across the following topic: http://z11.invisionfree.com/wrestling_ko/i...?showtopic=5078 This seems like it'd be a fun topic to discuss, so I thought I'd bring it over here. My initial inclination is to say most likely yes, but I'd have to give it more thought to know exactly where. I can say with absolute certainty that I would never in a million years rank him above Jumbo Tsuruta.

The people at the bar I watched WM28 at were laughing at Shawn's attempts to be dramatic in the Taker/HHH HIAC. I recall Dave and Bryan praising that performance as well. Maybe they just don't know what good acting is.

Dutch Mantell's granddaughter died in a car accident. Tragic.

Last night's Raw isn't the only thing leading me to believe that I like Shawn quite a bit less than I thought I did. I recently compiled a list of my 50 favorite matches, and Shawn was only on two of them. Then again, I've always kind of had the sense that Shawn's been in a bunch of quality matches but not that many essential ones. Like, GFBE is objectively a really good match, but there's plenty of matches I'd place above it.

I like how AW concedes that a joke about Sandusky or the Colorado shooting should be grounds for dismissal. I guess comedy really is tragedy plus time.

Shawn's performance on Raw tonight has made me question every single positive thing I said about him in this thread.

The Angle/Cena feud was when Cena really started getting booed out of the building every night. Despite the WWE's comically heavy-handed attempts to turn the crowd against Angle (having him insult the troops, giving him Daivari as a manager, censoring the "you suck" chants), he was still getting cheered over Cena. Eventually, they just gave up and turned Angle face. The poinf of the promo where Angle said he didn't like black people and wanted to make Jesus tap out was that people would still cheer him no matter what he said or did.

Not to my knowledge. But they really were playing with fire by doing an anti-American gimmick in the wake of 9/11.

Not if they actually do kill you.