NintendoLogic

The thread title should be self-explanatory. My picks: WWF/E title: HBK/Mankind, Mind Games NWA title: Flair/Funk, 89 Bash WCW title: Vader/Sting, 92 Bash Triple Crown: Misawa/Kawada, 6/3/94 GHC title: Kobashi/Takayama, 4/25/04 WWWA red belt: Kong/Kansai, 8/30/95 WWWA white belt: Devil/Chiggy, 8/22/85 WCW/WWE cruiserweight title: Eddy/Rey, Halloween Havoc IWGP junior title: Liger/Sano, 8/10/89 WWF/E tag titles: HBK/Diesel vs. Ramon/Kid, Action Zone AJPW tag titles: Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue, 6/9/95 All Asia tag titles: Kobashi/Kikuchi vs. Can-Ams, 5/25/92 WWWA tag titles: Toyota/Yamada vs. Ozaki/Kansai, Dream Rush This is what I could come up with off the top of my head. But any belt from any promotion is fair game.

I would say that talking about control segments lends itself to macro rather than micro analysis. To me, the best matches are the ones with a clearly defined narrative arc where things happen for a reason and each segment logically follows from the previous one. Discussing how a control segment works is part of the big picture. It's quite different from talking about how someone pulled the fingers back while applying an armbar or had a really hateful facial expression while throwing a punch.

I thought it wasn't so much that Jericho and RVD were stiff as they were stiff while looking like they were barely touching the other guy, which is the worst possible combination.

If there are going to be two world title belts, I think they should have separate identities. Make the WWE Championship the sports entertainment belt and the World Heavyweight Championship the workrate belt like the Intercontinental title was in the 80s and early 90s.

The proper term is oudou, you baka gaijin.

You've actually heard someone not on Vince's payroll use the term in a non-derisive manner?

Haven't you guys heard? He's Steve "Steve" Borden.

Hasn't Cyndi Lauper said that she regrets getting involved with wrestling because she thought it hurt her career? And Wendi Richter made some anti-WWE remarks when she got inducted into the Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame earlier this year. So it could just be Vince holding a grudge.

That's precisely it. I was curious about your threshold for greatness. Not trying to be adversarial.

You think there were 100+ really great matches in 1995 alone?

You don't need highspots to work a non-boring control segment. Watch some old Rick Rude matches for a primer.

There isn't a thread up at DVDVR yet, so I'll post my thoughts here. Like I said, Dolph was kind of exposed tonight. He's good at delivering fun TV matches, but it's tough to be a main event heel when your only tools for working a heat segment are chinlocks and facebusters. He'd certainly benefit from a face turn. I also don't like Sheamus' current hierarchy of finishers. Using White Noise to set up the Brogue Kick seems backwards. Christian/Cody was my MOTN. Christian is basically what a babyface Dolph would look like. Cody was also much more effective at delivering a heel beatdown. It sucks that they've killed Cody's credibility, because I think he has the tools to be the top heel on Smackdown. I expected the tag match to be a clusterfuck, but it ended up being a pleasant surprise. The WWE definitely has the personnel for a quality tag division, but they need to get behind more than one team so you don't end up with an Air Boom situation where losing one guy causes the whole division to fall apart. Also, the Prime Time Players are entertaining enough without AW. Are Epico and Primo faces now? The triple threat had a few nice spots, but overall it was a waste of the talents of 2/3 of the guys in the match. I continue to maintain that Ryback is only as entertaining as the jobbers he squashes. Cena/Show was comically overbooked, but it wasn't like they were setting the world on fire before that point, so I didn't mind. I legit LOL'd at Cole immediately turning on Johnny after he got fired. Overall, the show wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, but not enough for a thumbs up.

Dolph was kind of exposed tonight, I think. He just doesn't have the offense to work a heel heat segment in a PPV-quality match. I thought it was pretty telling that Christian worked basically the same match but was vastly more effective simply by virtue of being a babyface.

I've been horribly negligent at working on this, but my plan for a while now has been to review some 1994 matches to go with the yearbook. Before I get to them, though, here's another one I've been wanting to do for a while. Giant Baba vs. Billy Robinson AJPW July 24, 1976 First fall: We begin with some chain wrestling ending in a stalemate. Baba gains the advantage on a knuckle lock, and Robinson has some difficulty negotiating an escape. After Robinson escapes a Baba headlock, he goes for a gutwrench suplex, but Baba blocks. Robinson then goes for a test of strength to open Baba up and starts going to work on Baba's left leg with some kicks and a legbreaker. Baba works an armbar, but Robinson reverses with a single-leg takedown. He works his way out of a Baba bodyscissors and starts applying pressure on Baba's leg by bending it over his own head. Well, that's certainly unique. The two end up in the ropes, forcing a break. Baba takes exception to Robinson's continued assault on his leg and the match turns into a slugfest, with Baba throwing chops and Robinson elbows. Robinson tries to whip Baba into the corner, but Baba reverses. Big boot from Baba only gets two, but a follow-up back suplex gets the pinfall. Second fall: Baba comes out swinging, blasting Robinson with chops and a Russian legsweep. More chops from Baba, which Robinson sells like he's on the receiving end of a Vader beatdown. Neckbreaker gets two. Whipping Robinson into the corner set up Baba's victory in the first fall, so he goes for it again. This time, however, Robinson blocks and blasts Baba with a big elbow smash. After taking a minute to regain his wits, Robinson goes on the offensive, hitting a dropkick, a running elbow smash, and a neckbreaker of his own. He then goes back to work on Baba's leg. Baba manages to kick him away when he gets too aggressive, foreshadowing the turning point in the third fall. Knee drop gets two. Robinson keeps trying for a double arm suplex, but Baba blocks each time, so he settles for a half crab and gets the submission. Third fall: Robinson is like a shark smelling blood at this point, and Baba's leg is his target. He starts the fall with a couple of sweep kicks. Robinson's satisfied smirk after the first kick is too awesome for words. Baba unleashes a desperate flurry of strikes, but Robinson blocks all of them. It's almost as if Robinson is toying with him, which is further reinforced when he gets in Baba's face after a rope break and dares him to do something. After Robinson gets a single-leg takedown, Baba kicks him away as in the second fall. This time, though, Robinson lands awkwardly on the back of his head. He's been knocked for a loop, and he needs to roll out of the ring and take a breather. Once back in, he goes for a shoulder block on Baba's leg, but they both tumble to the outside. Note that since this match is for the PWF title, it's contested under PWF rules, meaning that they only have a ten count to make it back in the ring. As a result, there's a bit more urgency when they're outside than in the typical Japanese match. Back in, Baba goes for another back suplex, but Robinson blocks by kicking off the ropes. I've never really understood how that's supposed to work. This time, it's Baba who has to roll out and take a breather. Robinson tries to follow him out to bring the fight to him, but Baba fends him off and makes it back in first. Once they're both back in, a backbreaker from Robinson gets two. Baba sends Robinson into the ropes for another big boot, but Robinson blocks and hits a dropkick. He then hits a shoulder tackle and a crossbody, but when he goes off the ropes again, Baba hits the flying neckbreaker drop for the win. Holy Hannah, that was awesome. The psychology in this match was just off the charts. This is pretty much the epitome of thinking man's wrestling. I'd rate this the best match of the 70s by a fair margin. Final Verdict: Epic

I like mainly 90s All Japan and mid-90s WWF (mostly Bret Hart), but I'm not blind to their faults by any means. I've heard the various criticisms of King's Road, and I'm in basic agreement with most of them. They just don't bother me all that much in practice. Wrestling is entertainment, not a math equation. Just as different people are entertained by different things, different people are bothered by different things. I suppose that's true in theory, but I can't think of a single match that was actually hurt by too much body part selling. See, this is useful context. It's not ideal, but it's something. It may sound like I'm down on joshi, but I'm really not. There are plenty of joshi matches that I like a lot. I think it's easier for me to outline what I don't like than what I do. Beyond that, I enjoy breaking things down as much as possible to figure out what I like and why.

A new low?

He dislocated his elbow back in February.

That poll has Murphy only getting 79% of the Democratic vote, with McMahon getting 15%. I don't think that's going to hold.

I'm probably the only one who rates it so highly, but this is the best US tag match I've ever seen. Just a classic Southern-style tag without any of the conventions of the genre that annoy me. Having Ramon play Ricky Morton seems counterintuitive, but they make it work. Ramon and Kid had some pretty cool big man/small man double-team maneuvers as well. The one sour note for me was the hot tag that the ref disallowed because he didn't see it. I dislike spots that put the heat on the ref rather than the heels. But it set up the heel miscommunication that knocked Diesel out, so it worked out in the end.

I was in the middle of a long reply a while back, but I got bored in the middle of it. I'll just post the truncated one. I was under the impression that Jaguar was one of the main drivers of the style becoming more fast-paced and athletic. And I would say that completely blowing off targeted body part work is both lazier and less compelling from a dramatic standpoint. Why even bother going after a body part if it isn't going to go anywhere or lead to anything? And it's not just limb work, comebacks in general are too easy. When someone gets worked over for ten minutes and then reverses an Irish whip and becomes a house of fire, it's difficult for me to get invested.

The issue of unionization in wrestling might be worth a topic of its own, but there's a piece in The New Republic that discusses a lot of the same issues in UFC. http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/magazi...p-bill-culinary Of particular note is the following passage: I can only imagine how they'd react to a WWE contract, particularly the death clause.

Dylan hit the nail on the head. There is literally nobody in TNA who I would pay to see with the possible exception of Samoa Joe after extensive rehabilitation. Whenever I try to watch Impact, the only segments that hold my interest are comedy segments with Eric Young. Come to think of it, comedy is the only thing TNA does better than WWE.

Vince was leveraged up his eyeballs that first year. The WWF expansion wasn't catching on in a lot of places, and he was months behind on payments to his creditors. It was mainly payments from Antonio Inoki that kept him afloat.

I don't have the exact numbers, but Dave has said that Sting barely moved any merch at all and that it was a running joke in WCW about how the little Stingers didn't actually exist.

New Japan owned the rights to the name Big Van Vader, so he had to change it when he left. He was Super Vader in UWFi.