Ricky Jackson

I really wasn't trying to suggest that Vince and the modern WWE monolith have the amazing power to brainwash fans, and we at PWO are running some kind of underground resistance effort to save wrestling. But yeah, "youth is wasted on the young". I look back on who I thought were great wrestlers when I was in my early-20s and cringe sometimes. Shawn actually holds up a whole lot better than most (*cough* RVD *cough*). And I liked "I'm sorry, I love you".

The fact that Shawn was the one who got the serious main event push by Vince probably automatically puts him ahead of guys like Hennig, Martel, Garvin and several others in the eyes of many fans. The WWE has also created quite a myth around Shawn with "Mr. Wrestlemania" and all the nicknames, the Mania X ladder match, the first HIAC, 20 + years of service, etc. And while I have nothing to back this up, I think a lot of the "Shawn is #1" talk is a generational thing. Of the wrestling fans I know under 30, and who didn't start watching until well into the 90s, often anything pre-94 or so is considered the dark ages and unwatchable. A lot of them see Hogan as the antithesis of everything they like about wrestling (can't do moovz and was responsible for holding back guys like Benoit and Jericho in WCW), can't get into Flair or Lawler or even conceive that either was ever a great worker (especially Lawler), in fact, most of the guys we constantly praise on this board mean nothing to them. Shawn usually rates pretty high with these guys, although a lot of fans in Canada to this day still hate him solely for his role in the screwjob.

And what exactly is "French technology"? Minitel. (sorry, only French people could understand this one, but I garantee you it's funny.) That Canada joke is indeed quite funny by the way. Never heard it before, but it's a nice one.

My appreciation for Shawn probably peaked around 94 or so. Loved the Rockers. Loved the initial heel run. Probably my second favorite wrestler at that point (next to Bret). Soured on him in 96, as he replaced my hero and became a lame, forced babyface. Always liked him more as a heel (as a singles wrestler anyway). Missed most of his early-comeback during a stretch where I was off wrestling, but enjoyed his last few years, especially 07-09. I would still put him in my top 20, but he's slipping more and more with each passing year.

American culture, yes, but we definitely don't have British cuisine, unless you go out of your way to seek it out (and who the fuck would do that? ) . And what exactly is "French technology"?

As far as I know TV issues were a major reason for both eventually tanking and going out of business. LA lost its English language TV around 75/76 because of complaints to the FCC that their show was basically a 1 hour commercial for the house shows (which it was, but so were all territory era wrestling shows). This left the territory with only Spanish TV and an increasingly Spanish-only audience, which I guess hurt the business to a degree, but it seems like years and years of subsequent poor booking and a lack of star power are what really killed the area dead. The famous low point was when they basically booked the Frankenstein monster as a top heel around 1982 or so. San Fran lost their TV around 1979, I think because notoriously difficult promoter Roy Shire finally pissed off the wrong people one too many times. Shire continued to book the Cow Palace afterwards (the main arena in the territory), relying on other promoters to supply him talent. A deal with Don Owen fell apart (Buddy Rose cut a shoot promo on Shire at a Cow Palace show calling him out for being a liar and con man) which forced Shire to rely on the mediocre at best KC territory for talent, which proved disastrous, and a switch to Florida and Rhodes was too late to stave off the end. The territory was dead by 1981. This is just based on what I've read here and there over the years, a lot from Meltzer, so anybody with better info feel free to chime in.

I've only got a top ten in me tonight: 1. Hart 2. Savage 3. Flair 4. Backlund 5. Michaels 6. Cena 7. Hogan 8. Austin 9. Sammartino 10. Slaughter

Yeah, makes you wonder how many MSG cards were filmed by outside sources at the time. The comments on the video suggest Wolf showed MSG highlights often, so maybe there are a few more gems out there somewhere waiting to be discovered.

Just watched the Hogan vs Bossman 89 cage match from MSG a few nights ago and I thought Tony was pretty good here (as was Lord Al surprisingly enough), and I usually find him out of place in a WWF setting. For me, the downfall of Tony, and WCW announcing in general, was when endless discussion of the NWO infected every undercard match on Nitro and PPV to the point where it was beyond overkill.

Took me a while to find it again ("hulk hogan vs gorilla monsoon msg" finally did the trick) but here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2_N9Q36hNc

Going over the results on Cawthon's site, the MSG card with the Backlund vs Adonis rematch (2/15/82--a Texas Death Match with Putski as ref) really stands out as one of the most potentially interesting "lost" MSG shows, as there was also a Valentine vs Morales "Brass Knuckles Alley Fight" on the card I'd really love to see. What's the deal with the MSG shows, like this one, that weren't televised at the time? Were they still filmed? Are there examples of untelevised MSG cards showing up in trading circles? One example I can think of is the 6/16/80 card (Backlund vs Zbyszko, Hogan vs Monsoon), which wasn't televised but was filmed, as clips were shown with the sports highlights on a local TV station, and a video of that is on YouTube.

I've been a bit out of the loop---is Flair's return to WWE imminent? Also, looking ahead to MITB, who gets elevated this year? Off the top of my head it doesn't seem like they've been grooming anybody new recently. I could see Cena being in the Raw match, since I don't think he's ever been in a MITB before. Wouldn't be surprised if he won too. Edit: I guess Tensai is a good candidate. Maybe Clay?

Serious treasure trove of historical/Japanese footage on this YouTube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/CLASSiC1PW.

Hogan winning in 91 was the right call (send the fans home happy with USA triumphant on a night Slaughter won the belt), 90 maybe less so (could've ended the match with Perfect eliminating a brawling and distracted Hogan and Warrior), but you can't argue it wasn't what most fans wanted.

I kind of want to argue that Vince Sr was a better booker than Vince Jr (not promoter, although Sr has to be top 5 in that category) based on being able to come up with enough hot angles, stars, and match-ups to draw consistently well for around 30 years, with only a few cold periods (the main one in the late-60s due in large part to them losing TV in NYC), within the confines of the northeast. I can't pull a college-level thesis argument on the subject off the top of my head, but I think this isn't an outrageous statement to make.

It'll happen sooner or later, maybe as a hook for Mania 30 or something.

As far as I know he was a pretty big star in the 50's who basically used ballerina moves in the ring to frustrate his brawny opponents. I think he was mostly a babyface though, which is funny when one thinks of the stereotypical 50s homophobic crowd, but I'm not 100% sure about that. Edit: Not a ton of info on Starr out there (not even a wiki page apparently), but this blog looks to offer some good info on him: http://rickystarr.blogspot.ca/

I'm guessing he meant when they permanently go to 3 hours, which is sometime next month I think. So still a few more weeks of his unbelievable sadness with modern WWE.

Also, the King has never been more annoying than he is tonight, and I'm changing the channel to watch the Kings win the cup.

I've been away for three weeks and breezed through the topics I missed and all I have to say is that a part of me hopes the Punk/Bryan feud ends with a beard vs beard match. Seriously though, their feud seems fun (the promo segment right now with them, Kane and AJ is plain nutty) and I plan on watching their ppv match tomorrow.

Sounds like an interesting movie. I actually randomly stumbled upon that La Lutte movie mentioned in the article years and years ago on a Canadian cable channel one night. Missed the beginning and never caught the title, and had totally forgotten about it until today, so that's cool. What do you guys think of The Masked Man articles on Grantland? I've read most of them and some are very good, but I sometimes feel he pushes his whole "Reality Era" agenda a bit too much and gives WWE credit for coming up with meta-type narratives that just aren't there.

And according to Cawthon, Jake took time off after the DiBiase injury because of "legal issues dealing with charges of assault", with a "fractured disc in his neck" being the kayfabe excuse (although, didn't Jake suffer a legit neck injury from HTM's guitar shot and suffer life-long repercussions from it?). Jake's return bout didn't air until October 7th.

Don't remember this at all. A rare Mania to Mania feud.

The Jake/DiBiase feud did start in 89, right after Mania V. There was a match between Jake and Virgil on Superstars where Ted "injured" Jake post match, allowing him to take time off for either rehab or to recuperate from injury, maybe both. Jake returned post-Summerslam and the feud was rekindled, with matches at MSG in late 89, Jake being on the Hogan side vs DiBiase's team at Survivor Series, and probably house show matches around the horn. Feud ended, of course, at Mania VI.