WingedEagle

Tony Salazar vs. Herodes (3/2/1984) Randomly came across this today as I squeeze in some wrestling before the Curry show. Had never seen either man once before, but was blown away by this. The first fall is very quick and simple with clean, logical action. Second fall sees Herodes adopted by the Andersons as he decides to remove Salazar's arm and even fucking hits a senton backsplash to the arm. Great, basic psychology with a single-minded purpose where everything looks brutal. What's not to love? Again, a very quick fall. Then comes the bloodshed and hopeful quarantining of both men. You've got Herodes posting Salazar and then clawing at his face like an absolute savage, until Salazar turns things around on the outside and opens up Herodes with a bulldog, then bites at his massacred face and spits the blood in the air. Yeah, tell these gents not to go on vacation because of the Zika virus. I dare you. Herodes looks to me like a Mexican Harley Race. He would also make a great penultimate boss in a prison movie who Van Damme or a similar gringo babyface needs to overcome. Except lucha Harley Race happens to throw an awesome tope out of nowhere. With a better finish, it would've been a classic in my eyes. As it is, still an incredible, incredible brawl. I know it'll be sacrilege to many, but I found this much better and more violent than MS-1/Chicana. That's a great match as well, but this bowled me over.

Honestly, if his TNA work keeps on delivering like it did the first year, AJ could get dangerously close to my top 10. Eddie is not even close at this point. Exactly. I still haven't made it through the bulk of his TNA work yet and it was still enough, along with the ROH, NJPW and indy work, to get him that high. Dude is vastly underrated. He's a very, very different worker from Bryan and not as endearing or naturally charismatic in the same way, but when you sit down and examine their work and the matches each have put together, AJ came out a whole lot closer than I ever would've thought possible.

If you take away the last 2 years, what you probably remove is what brought a lot of eyes and attention to AJ. The bulk of his case is in ROH, TNA and the years before New Japan. Viewed outside the context of awful TNA television and booking, his runs in both promotions is remarkably strong, as I couldn't believe how blown away by I was by what he was doing at such a young age and then with such consistency for so long. I don't get top 10 either, but there have been a lot more ludicrous names thrown out at that level. I think I ended up ranking him top 25 or so, and frankly, with more time, could've been sold on going even higher.

Thanks, much appreciated.

Dylan, is the Danielson/Rave/Kyle Matthews match you mentioned online? Looks like some highlights of Danielson vs. Matthews are there but if its available in full would rather check that out.

You're right, I forgot about the Kalisto match. Very different matches but both were good. Probably preferred the dynamic of the 2/3 falls match because of how they used the booking, but can't go wrong with either.

So the Smackdown falling in this thread (4/14 air date) featured a pair of really good television matches. Emma vs. Paige was probably the best TV outing from the women in some time and held back solely because they only had a few minutes to work with. I get that Charlotte is the lead heel, Sasha apparently the house favorite and Becky the the charismatic babyface, but 3 chicks does not a division make. These two should absolutely be pushed enough so that they can credibly be slotted into a second women's match on a PPV as they can hold their own and probably ensure a solid, 8-12 minute undercard to further storylines, build card depth and avoid repeated matchups. AJ vs. Del Rio was the best thing Del Rio's been a part of since his return and better than every single match in the Jericho feud, plus it featured a well executed and very much non-standard WWE finish. Leave the rest of the show in your DVR abyss, but I was pleasantly surprised to find these two matches on there before clearing it out.

Savage needs to be edited into the list a week or 2 ago. My absolute favorite as a child, but impressionable young me who drew over his face on WWF magazines when he turned heel did not vote. Then again, maybe that kid is the one who voted and left him off.

Tough to argue you're anti-AJPW there. I'm just of the mindset that that crew is responsible for the best wrestling ever and ranked them accordingly, even if irrationally so. One thing I love about these podcasts is hearing the case for wrestlers I haven't seen enough of as it gives me some references for things to eventually watch. But you know its a good show when it makes me want to go back and watch the names I *am* familiar with and comfortably didn't rank, and that is the case here. Agree with this. Every time I listen to a chunk of the show, it leaves me excited to go watch some wrestling. Can't do better than that. The AJPW thing really didn't strike me as a big deal, because Dylan said most of the same stuff I'd say (did say) about those guys. He just ranked most of them lower. And I love pretty much everyone he ranked higher, so it's really just a matter of shuffling the same 20 or so wrestlers. At this level, the differences in order are razor thin margins of personal taste or valuation. Of course. We all just want to champion our guys

When Too Cold Scorpio and Scott Steiner are called the greatest ever and Brian Pillman gets a top 3 vote, Brock Lesnar can claim to be Flair, Misawa and Thesz rolled up in one as far as I'm concerned.

Interesting point from Dylan about voting potentially swinging too far away from Japan. We'll see how the top 10-20 shake out, but that certainly looks to be the case.

Thanks, much appreciated!

Basically where I am on Finlay as well. Just never connected with me. Always solid but just never special unless in with Regal. He's a common favorite of many people who's tastes are often similar to mine, but for some reason I've never been able to see the light here.

You can agree or disagree with his point, but its pretty clear that it was not a call for unpredictability.

William Regal in 2013. Amazing. I don't want to take anything away from Hero here as his strikes were on point, he sold the hand very well and, perhaps most importantly, was always in the right position. But this was the Regal show. He paid tribute to Isamu Teranishi vs. Fujinami in the '84 Gauntlet by viciously working the hand with stomps and just tearing at his fingers. Not sure that Hero is an ideal sympathetic babyface, but he did his best to play the part there and you can't take anything away from him. After Ohno cut off that attack with a big knee he went to work with kicks and stomps to Regal's head, and the selling was just fantastic, glassy-eyed in the immediate aftermath and then firing up through Ohno's big onslaught at the end before a finish that while sudden, fit the match very well. Really amazing work by Regal and yet another example of him having some of the very best ever facial expressions.

What 88-89 (or earlier, if available) Dandy do I need to watch? Hoping to do that this afternoon before heading out for the evening.

I think the Flair/Jumbo draw is not only one of the finest performances for both Ric Flair and Jumbo Tsuruta, but legitimately one of the greatest matches of all time. Jumbo is definitely part of a few tags I'd rank higher, and I know this sounds like hyperbole, but I could make a case for it over the '89 Tenryu match as his GOAT singles match.

Tough to argue you're anti-AJPW there. I'm just of the mindset that that crew is responsible for the best wrestling ever and ranked them accordingly, even if irrationally so. One thing I love about these podcasts is hearing the case for wrestlers I haven't seen enough of as it gives me some references for things to eventually watch. But you know its a good show when it makes me want to go back and watch the names I *am* familiar with and comfortably didn't rank, and that is the case here.

Dylan's #27 was a huge Superkick through the Barbershop window. Starting Part 2 tomorrow.

Lesnar benefits from several things:1)WWE 2)recency bias 3)uniqueness I didn't rank him. The long term damage of having him work versus Angle is showing now. He makes people feel something in an age where it's hard for people to feel anything. He feels special in a world where nothing else does. That says a hell of a lot more about the world than it does about him. He certainly didn't make my list. I think that's way off base. Lesnar was very different and had a completely unique presence and aura about him from day one. Renewed, yet different, upon returning in '12 after his UFC stint, but attributing that to the current environment disregards what a freak he was on the first go round. Absolutely never felt like one of the pack, even when they tried to make that happen through booking.

Love that they did it at a house show. Hoping Balor shows up at Payback or Raw the next night.