WingedEagle

I really wish people were so forgiving when WCW was around. Man, WWE gets a free pass so much of the time. They've definitely earned more leeway though. Even when slogging through months of never-ending TV, you eventually get rewarded whether its the Rumble/Mania main events this year, Mania or Summerslam last year, Rock's return, Bryan at Summerslam in '13, etc. The hits may be fewer and further between but after let's say the build to Starrcade '97 and Goldberg at the Dome, how many big, satisfying moments did WCW provide?

Lock the thread. This wins.

Don't always have to be different. With the right brawl they can be very similar. But Lucha can give the vibe of being a drunk cirque du soleil, whereas PR feels more like a drunk alley fight. Massive generalization? Yes, no question. Just the vibe that each gives off at times. The only real difference I can think of is that they bleed more in PR and do more gimmick matches. The styles seem like cousins to me. When they do the brawling I get it. But lucha has more to it than that. Haven't seen much else out of PR so can't comment there. Sticking with the brawling then, since "lucha" is the name for professional wrestling in Mexico and in fact made up of various different styles, I can't really understand how anybody who enjoyed Hansen/Colon so much, or thinks Colon is a guy worth investing more time in, would overlook or ignore the great lucha brawlers. That is the plan. I've loved some lucha brawls as much as if not more than the best of Hansen/Colon. Outside of brawling things I've loved in lucha have been few and far between.

I like lucha brawls. Those very much resemble PR brawls. its other lucha that does not connect as well.

Don't always have to be different. With the right brawl they can be very similar. But Lucha can give the vibe of being a drunk cirque du soleil, whereas PR feels more like a drunk alley fight. Massive generalization? Yes, no question. Just the vibe that each gives off at times. The only real difference I can think of is that they bleed more in PR and do more gimmick matches. The styles seem like cousins to me. When they do the brawling I get it. But lucha has more to it than that. Haven't seen much else out of PR so can't comment there.

Can you cut that down to 10?

Awesome. Do you have the match listings for it?

Don't always have to be different. With the right brawl they can be very similar. But Lucha can give the vibe of being a drunk cirque du soleil, whereas PR feels more like a drunk alley fight. Massive generalization? Yes, no question. Just the vibe that each gives off at times.

Feb 12, 2012 June 16, 2012 Jan 4, 2013 Apr 7, 2013 Aug 10, 2013 Oct 14, 2013 Jan 4, 2015 That's all of them in chronological order. If you only want to try a couple I'm happy to recommend some over others.

Stan Hansen vs. Carlos Colon (10/12/86) Hansen going crazy early, murders the ref right away then goes to work with the bullrope. Sodas and such thrown at Hansen. Chairs, cowbell, barricade. Going after crowd with police chasing as they presumably hope to keep him alive. Finally the chaps come off. Loved tracking throughout this madness how long it took him every time to get down to business and remove the cowboy gear. They tease an early Colon comeback off of a missed corner charge but that's not happening yet as Hansen cuts it off with a low blow. Hate this as a finish, but its not a finish in Puerto Rico but rather a signal for the crowd to sharpen their weapons. Hansen with corner lariat but pulls Colon up at 2 to lay in more punishment, which leads to Colon's comeback and his apparently trademark cartwheel / flip deal. Colon's offense is some of the weakest stuff you'll find which may prove problematic for some people but doesn't hurt this at all. His timing is spectacular and can carry an entire stadium through his comebacks even if its never more than punching and biting. This was a terrific brawl that didn't waste a moment of its near 10 minutes and left you wanting more but not shorted. Double juice, a top of his game crazed Hansen and a willing victim in Colon gives this feud a super hot start. **** Stan Hansen vs. Carlos Colon (11/9/86) This time Colon jumps him out of the gates as Hansen enters the ring, using the bullrope on him before taking it outside to throw Hansen into what I guess is a a bullpen or dugout wall. Colon goes down after Hansen sidesteps the weakest running kneelift you'll ever find and goes on to attack the knee with kicks and stomps. Finally the chaps are off. Hansen now using the fence around the field and we've got double juice again. Colon works the arm after Hansen posts it on a missed lariat but has given up selling his knee. Colon still getting by almost entirely on charisma, energy and punching/biting. I could see this resulting in some awfully long and dry matches against lesser opposition but it works great against Hansen's wild aggression and selling. Colon appears to take this by DQ after outsiders get involved trying to load Hansen's lariat arm again. Post-match is the set-up for the upcoming tag with Hansen laying out I guess Castillo, piledrives Colon and then lariats Castillo on the grass. More great madness. Hansen jawing at the crowd probably isn't brilliant. This match also under 10 minutes. Love it. ***3/4 Stan Hansen and Chicky Starr vs. Carlos Colon and Hurrican Castillo Sr. (12/21/86) More brawling before it officially starts, with Hansen/Colon paired outside and Starr/Castillo inside. Chicky has a nice rat tail and seems pretty scummy, but he's not Stan Hansen. Chicky takes a nice over the top bump from a Colon kick low. That brings in Castillo for some dancing before unloading while Colon controls Hansen with punches in the corner. Chicky is the first to bleed. But not the last as Hansen with color almost immediately thereafter. Hansen returns to save a bloody Chicky from a 2 on 1 with the bullrope and hangs Colon over the ropes with it. He lays out the ref who tries to break it up and we've got a pretty hot angle leading into the bullrope match. But not the hottest of this feud. Fans look rabid as Hansen & Starr bail to avoid other faces in for the save. Another sub 10 minute brawl. More angle than match here but you can't argue with something so hot and effective. ***1/4 Stan Hansen vs. Carlos Colon (Bullrope Match 1/6/87) A little slower start with them attached here as we don't have the typical before the bell attack. But that doesn't last long and Hansen is bleeding pretty quickly from punching and rope work. I like that Colon used the cowbell so strongly hear with clear shots as opposed to relying on the rope. If you have metal, use it. Really strong offense for Colon early with Hansen putting him over big. This probably isn't mic'd as well as it could be as the noise does not match the frenzy you can see in the crowd. They teased touching the four corners a few times here in good fashion to build the stip and finish. At one point Hansen is choking Colon with the rope and Carlos was tapping as though to legit let Hansen know he couldn't breathe. Nice use of the ball to break a choke before using it for more offense and then kicking it into Hansen's head. VIOLENCE! Hansen is really working his tail off here -- he's much more aggressive when in control while selling and stooging like a boss every time Colon is on top. Carlos may be the seasoning here but without Hansen providing the meat you're going home hungry. The violence as this progresses was top notch. Neat spot with Colon leaving the ring to stop Hansen from touching all 4 posts. More great brawling with both on the floor. The finish sees them go to the common trope of both men touching the corners but we get a nice wrinkle with the backdrop leading into the finish. More post-match brawling to the back serves as a great cap here. Okay, Stan Hansen is the best. Colon's offense doesn't even really look threatening but Hansen is just incredible putting it over as a world class beating. There's not a single aspect of wrestling he doesn't deliver here. Quick take is I can't put this above Vader-Sting as far as the gimmick goes because of Colon's offense. Curious if I feel differently on a second look down the line. ****1/4 Before this next match we get the angle in Chicky Starr's Barber Shop. I can say nothing here that Parv already didn't. Classic. Not just the best hog tying angle I've seen, but a great one of any kind. Loved Chicky alternating between English & Spanish. Stan Hansen vs. Carlos Colon (2/28/87) Colon starts things out here which makes sense after the angle, unloading on Hansen before the vest & chaps are off once again. Let's see how quickly they bleed. Colon whipping him with the rope on the floor. Colon how bashing Hansen's face against the floor and punching, then throwing him into the railing at the building. Colon breaks out out his cartwheel too early here as Hansen uses the opportunity to hit a bodyslam, but Colon right back with punches bookending an actual armdrag which may his first non-punch/bite/stomp offense of this feud. The chaps have their longest run of the series here and we also get probably the longest start until there's blood. Colon goes after Hansen's knee here, with the highlight being Hansen selling it as though he's in surgery without any drugs. Long spot with the figure-four in the ring, and I actually dug the footage here as it looked like the cameraman climbed the turnbuckles to shoot it. Hansen selling the knee throughout and after this is really something to see. They're in the hold forever as Parv noted, but Hansen keeps it compelling throughout. Weak finish with Hansen DQ'd for a crutch shot but the post-match with him getting in a few more shots before bailing on the bad knee makes up fo rit. Colon is hot and taking out refs and officials afterwards, chasing Hansen to the back. I loved how they mixed things up here with the knee work on Hansen and Colon controlling much of the way without sacrificing the brawling and bloodsport element of the feud. **** Stan Hansen vs. Carlos Colon (Steel Cage Match 3/14/87) Colon pulls Hansen into the cage and again has a super hot shine with punches, headbutts and of course biting. Hansen ends that with a low blow as Colon climbs in the corner. We have an early double juice job which is only appropriate for these gents. Colon is quickly a bloody mess as Hansen drops great knees on his face. The Colon cartwheel and comeback comes shortly thereafter and he's on fire with punches, dancing and a jumping headbutt. Colon also works the knee here and Hansen again puts it over with fantastic selling. Great, treat teases of escapes here as a crimson Colon stops Hansen from escaping over the top and through the door. Colon with an awesome series of slams that drop his body weight on the knee. The crowd looks like a World Cup crowd when Colon locks on the figure-four as everyone at the bull ring? stadium? is on their feet. We then get a scene straight out of Oz with someone trying to break into the cage but babyfaces are out to stop the interference and there are mini brawls everywhere surrounding the ring. Meanwhile Colon is working the figure-four this entire time. Was that always his finisher? He finally lets it go and runs out of the cage to win and join the fracas outside. Someone on the floor is really bloodied and the faces help him back. Colon working the mic afterwards sends everyone home happy. One of the best cage matches I've seen and a fantastic close to a great feud that cements Hansen as a magician in my eyes given what Colon brought to the table. Is this really the end though? No later matches between these two before he left PR for good? ****1/2 Finally, another shout out to Goc for making this available in a neat 90 minute package on Youtube. Hopefully many other great feuds or series are packaged together in such a fashion.

NXT ladies debut: Pros: -- Everyone got their own intro. During a quarter hour that's usually reserved for marquee segments. Clearly trying to position them as a big deal. -- Crowd took to everybody like a legit player from the intros to Charlotte's chops. Banks got a true major player reaction. -- Sasha Banks looked like a goddamn star. I've liked her in NXT. Perhaps the setting caused me to view everything there as the minors, but her presence is incredible and someone who can be a star on a 3 hour wrestling television show, as long as you have others in the division that look at least competent. Cons / Open Questions: -- Steph. From setting the table for the intros to the cutaway to her look of approval standing on the stage it felt like this was more about her moving pieces on the chessboard than those pieces themselves. Hopefully now that she's birthed this she can slip away and let them take center stage. -- Becky Lynch - minor quibble, but it looked like she didn't realize just how far the ring was from the stage as she had to adjust her run and entrance a bit. Means nothing big picture, but stood out. -- Aligning Sasha with Naomi & Tamina? I know Alicia Fox is with the Bellas because diversity and such, but why is Sasha lumped in with the 2 divas of color despite having zero background with them? Hopefully its just a quick springboard for whatever they do at Summerslam but it was the one thing that prevented Sasha from looking like a standout here after coming out last. -- Timing: Seemed odd on the go-home for Battleground with no match announced. Why not wait for next week to start fresh and build for a hot match at Summerslam? High hopes, but as hammerva noted, if this just switches out some characters in the same segments and matches we've gotten it means nothing. But have to think they'll at least try to change that based on the positioning tonight.

Parv, can you bold or otherwise mark new additions to your list if you're updating it? Nice to see what's new.

Hayabusa, from El-P

Stealing this one from Goc -- Stan Hansen. The Colon feud. Watch it. Make another video or playlist for someone else that is this awesome. Share it.

Should add I'm more than open to changing my tune on Colon, as I haven't seen enough of him to close the book on him at all. My takeaway here was simply how damn great Stan Hansen was when not working against a HOF talent. No doubt Colon sweated charisma and could control a PR crowd though.

If you've locked Hansen in to a particular spot this won't change your mind. If not, I think this is a terrific example of him producing high level matches and arguably a classic or two with someone that didn't resemble any kind of all-time worker. Super, SUPER charismatic. I didn't come away from this regarding him as this hidden treasure. I did come away asking how many other all timers could pull this off.

Will post my thoughts on the matches later, likely from home. But a HUGE shout out to Goc for making this available in such an easy fashion. We need a thread here or playlist on youtube that compiles these kinds of references so that they're easy to track. Just great work. MAKE IT HAPPEN! Perhaps a GWE-related resource? That just came to mind as this is clearly a must-watch for anyone not sure where to put Hansen.

Oh wow that's you? Consider it done.

+1 for Goc. That's what I'm doing after dinner now. Only 90 minutes?? I was sure that was Parv's version of "we wrestled broadways 8 times every week" or Hogan's 400 matches in a year.

I loved Bret growing up and bought into his catchphrase hook, line and sinker. Rewatching him over the last few years -- whether through yearbooks, WWE dvds, youtube, wherever I came across it -- he was very good. But by no means anything GOAT. Will place a whole lot lower on my list than I ever would've thought even 5 or 10 years ago.

How many average matches did Ogawa have against people who aren't top 10 GOAT candidates?

Here we go, the end of the road as far as it goes with Ditch's hosting. I kicked back and enjoyed this with a beer. Why don't people talk about this more? Everyone talks about the 8/93 bout, but you never hear anything about this. I'm with you. 8/93 is good, but not in the same league as 2/94.

Color me beyond shocked if Cena has any financial need to wrestle. He loves it. But he sounded there like someone with an endpoint in mind. He may never retire like a Flair or HBK, but perhaps that day is sooner than we would've otherwise imagined. Hopefully not.

Immediate reaction from the gut without ANY thinking whatsoever is that Casas is more dependable, could make for a longer highlight reel and is much more versatile -- but Santo wins because of higher highs. But I'd want to think more on it before putting pen to paper.

Curious where people put him. Some terrific stuff in the first run. Cena match. Then some solid stuff on the next go round leading into the Cena series last year followed by a couple classics at Rumble and Mania this year. Arguably not much more greatness here than a Volk Han, but on the other hand probably a lot more than some people touted recently like Gino Hernandez, Pat O'Connor or others with limited assets on tape. I could sell myself very highly on him and probably just as easily make a case against him, which means we'll likely go top 50 but it remains to be seen.