Jmare007

I think that would've been the more interesting/fun scenario to watch, but I don't think Bryan's level of support after his return would've sustained either. I don't believe hardcore fans see him as "their wrestler" anymore, he's a legend/icon now, so there's no "us (with Bryan) vs WWE" feeling. I also don't think they see the company holding him down either - at least not nearly to the level of outrage of 2012 to 2014 - and those were the kind of things that made him teflon to WWE booking. As you said in another thread, he can still be "Shawn Michaels, the icon" level over if pushed right. But for him to transcend that again, he's gonna need a bunch of stuff to happen, and just like 5 years ago, luck is a big part of that. I do think he's gonna get more momentum eventually though, he's still the most popular male on his brand.

Here's a video of him at last weekend's Starrcast (got to 14:55 if the time video doesn't load there). To be honest, I have no clue why Dave taking any PED (if he did/does) would matter to anyone. If Bischoff said that on Twitter as an insult, that's a pretty lame attempt at one imo.

Not in that sense. They have been losing fans with their current system/booking. Last two years even RAW has suffered from really poor attendance. Ratings haven't gone up in looong ass time - in a significant and consistent way - and they will be more important than ever for the company. But I don't think the number of fans they lose (and will continue to lose) is significant enough to hurt them. For the last 15 years WWE has built a business model whose purpose is to not rely on 1 or 2 people and to make the quality of their product hurt them as little as possible no matter how bad it can get. And this year I think they finally "won" that battle. I think the majority of us thought that their inability to book a proper "Ace" after Cena, plus all the other problems their booking has, plus heavily relying (and spending) on part timers could bite them in the ass at least in some way. But nope, 2018 comes around and they land two monster TV deals - even if FOX "demotes" Smackdown to FS1, it's gonna be their most watched show (besides a big live game here or there) - and a big international deal with Saudi Arabia that has them pretty much set for the next 5-6 years at least, unless a catastrophe of epic proportions happens. And I don't think even the XFL can fuck them over again. In that sense, yes, "it doesn't matter" anymore. I actually joked in another board after the USA and FOX deals we were entering the "I doesn't matter, they got their money" Era. It's worthwhile because it can lead to interesting discussions, but I don't think arguing about WWE's future based on their product is relevant. Not until we see a crack in the business. Which hasn't happened in forever and it doesn't look likely it will happen anytime soon. As you stated, it's more about aesthetic value and quality. The "it doesn't matter" talking point is pointless,I agree, but it will happen anyway because it's still kinda true. If you are asking for a courtesy because it's annoying or something then that's just not how the internet works I mean, you get people using the same "well, they are making money" argument from New Japan fans all the time when people rightfully critique their booking. Gotta roll with the punches I guess.

The Passion of the Shawn part II

Pretty much. Braun was probably the strongest babyface in forever and he still looked like a chump against Lesnar last year and he eventually turned heel again

I feel like people are taking "cooling off" as something else. I mean, nobody has said Bryan is as over as when he returned.

Is anyone arguing against that though?

What' the backstory on this?

To be honest, I didn't think Bryan's comeback was as big of a deal as some people made it out to be. We were all super happy about it, but it was never a "YES movement" level of overness. His return speech was amazing, and of course the crowd ate it up, it was a special moment and WWE barely has those anymore. But even during Mania he didn't feel like this huge superstar coming back. I've loved almost every TV match he's had since he came back - and even the ones with Cass were decent/good enough - but we gotta realize that not a lot of what made him super over is there right now. Hardcore fans see his return more as a blessing than "our champion is back!", the funny stuff with Kane that made him over with every audience is past him, AND he doesn't fly around, goes 100% speed and kills himself every match, which was also a big part of his momentum swing as a babyface in 2013. Even if he was treated as a respected icon, I don't think he would be that much over than right now. His feud with Miz is dope, that's what matters to me tbh.

Overall a fun show. I always saw All In more as a celebration of indy wrestling than "show of the year" and I got what I expected. Some fun flippy shit, some ridiculous and funny fuckery, a shitty overbooked mess that had a very nice moment (Cody's win) and a lot of decent/good matches. I'm tired of these events running so fucking long though. After Omega/Pentagon I had forgotten we had Okada/Scrull left and they made that shit ran so damn long it fucked the main event over as they had to cut it short by a lot (at least it seemed like it, Knox was calling for them to go home like 2 minutes in).

Yes they did.

This is not a critique of the match...it's just that seeing the ROH World Title being defended on a match were the most over parts of it were both wrestlers doing cosplay of 80's gimmicks/wrestlers was weird as fukk to watch.

Janela vs Page was the most indy shit ever, so was Ryan's return - felt like some shit DDT would do - perfect for this kind of show.

First time I really felt Cody as a legit star. Shitty and overbooked match with Aldis but that was kinda expected, very dope moment though.

Nah, Miz should be getting the belt from AJ Styles (or Joe) at Survivor Series.

Well, Braun became a fan favorite by doing heelish things and beating the shit out of Roman Reigns. He's gonna do exactly that for the coming months.

This is an escalation from their match in May. It's only 9 minutes long so it's a sprint in every sense of the word. The big veterans don't waste any time and go straight at the young boys before the bell rang but it doesn't pay off for them as Nomura and Abe quickly turn things around with their speed and stiffness. Similar to their first match, the action mainly focuses on Suzuki having to fend off these two cunts that have no issue kicking and slapping the shit out of him. The big difference here is that Sekimoto IS NOT FUCKING AROUND this time. My dude got pissed QUICK and did not want to take any shit from the small kids. I loved and laughed my ass off when Nomura slapped him straight in the face and then got away as quick as possible, pissing Sekimoto even more. This lacked a more dramatic ending to reach another level, but everything that happened in this match was awesome. It's less than 10 minutes, go watch it an enjoy.

There's no 90 day no-compete when the deal expires, just when you get 'deavored.

Da hell?

Oh man, a Miz run with the belt from Survivor Series to Mania would be fucking incredible. The promos of him boasting about defeating two indy darlings to get there and him having to fend off people like Joe, AJ and Jeff Hardy would be money. It's also cool that SD has such a strong roster. Even if you have to keep Bryan waiting till the Rumble, there's a bunch of interesting programs he can do until January. He might get the Nakamura match he's been wanting to have for so long., and he's the only one I can see forcing Shinsuke to have a dope match.

I guess it depends on how long Gedo wants to run with Okada's current angle. At some point he's going to comeback to form and win big matches. Doing it at Destruction and then at WK again would serve the purpose of telling that story and ending it with him as the big Ace again. I don't think it will happen though. People have been saying this for a long time and it makes little sense to me. New Japan has bent over backwards to please Ibushi ever since he was a Junior. Even when he hang them (and DDT) dry by taking that year off, he was brought back ass soon as possible, given a big gimmick (Tiger Mask, just when the anime was back) and then put in big programs as a heavyweight as soon as he dropped the TW persona. Ibushi has shown countless times he can draw, and New Japan has always treated him well, but he has a really weird booking ceiling that I've never figured out why it exists. And the "well, he might leave at any time" argument has never convinced me. We are talking about a company that gave it's secondary belt to a guy that flat out told them he wasn't going to work in the US and that he was good for 1 or 3 more dates (in the span of a year), but fucking Ibushi is "too risky"?. It's a promotion that gave the IWGP title to a gaijin that wasn't likely to stay long term (AJ Styles). New Japan tends to take full advantage of people that might leave soon, hell they might be doing it right now with Omega too - though he'll probably not go anywhere before he finishes up his anime-like Golden Lover story with Kota -, so the fact they have never done it with Ibushi, even with an IC title run, has always been puzzling to me.

I agree with Boss Rock, I've seen plenty of people in different places make fun of ratings and how silly some of the love for New Japan has gotten.

There's zero chance Jay White gets that title shot if Kenny Omega is still champ. They are not doing a gaijin vs gaijin title match on the biggest show of the year when they don't really have a hot angle or feud to put on top of it and sell tickets.

That sounds like a dope ass main event, haven't regretted watching a RAW main event in forever. Good shit.

Wait, are we talking about WWE or New Japan?