Superstar Sleeze

I don't really agree. I agree that those matches are very good to great, but I don't agree that he's working a different style. He's working one style. He carries the match with Hogan but he does it by forcing Hogan into his match. He works Patera the same way he worked Patterson, Valentine, and Inoki. He can be pushed into a bomb throwing contest (see Great Arab Hussein match), but even then he's doing it a very particular way. Backlund works on top more than just about any guy I can think of. He's more dominant in his matches than Hansen or Vader (I truly believe that). He shows less vulnerability than basically any major babyface I've ever seen. I said this on an upcoming show, but I want to say it here too: Backlund has too much struggle in him. I don't like Inoki for the same reason. It may be 20+ years' worth of being programmed to expect a certain unwritten rule of selling: if a guy is kicking another guy's ass, I expect the other guy to sell it. Backlund doesn't sell it, ever, ever. He's always struggling. Always fighting. Always doing some shit to show he's ... not getting his ass kicked. This is why the the matches with Inoki fucking suck for me, because there's Inoki doing exactly the same thing. "But Jerry, in an actual fight, that's what happens" Well I don't watch pro wrestling for its verismilitude, I'd watch UFC if I wanted that wouldn't I! Backlund is the only guy I've ever seen who will carry another guy by kicking their ass. After years and years of watching guys like Flair, it's very hard for me to adjust to that. I see it as a basic limitiation of Backlund's style. Flair can go in there with ANYONE and he makes them good look by showing ass and bumping like a muthafucker. He can work the proverbial broomstick. We've seen Backlund work broomsticks. We've seen him in there with some really shitty guys and with some more mediocre ones (e.g. Duncum). In fact, Duncum is a good case in point. Here's a guy who is taller than Backlund and heavier than Backlund and billed as a "big man". Backlund just kicks the shit out of him from bell to bell. But Duncum is not Ken Patera or Pat Patterson, so surprise surprise, he's not selling Bob's shit that well and the match sucks. This is why for as many great Backlund matches as there are, there are at least as many that are totally shit. I'd argue that Backlund simply doesn't change up his style to fit the opponent. He works the same way regardless of who it is. You could put that fucker in there with Superman himself and he still won't show you an ounce of vulnerability. Bob is in the business of getting Bob over. That's why I don't like him. In the best matches of his, the MVP for me has almost always been the opponent so far. Backlund or Valentine? Valentine Backlund or Patterson? Patterson Backlund or Patera? Patera I don't think it's a coincidence. This isn't just blind prejudice on my part -- Backlund sucks as a promo, I don't like and possibly still don't even understand his basic character -- it's a view I've built up of seeing a lot of Backlund now in different situations, against different opponents. He never changes. Flair is a heel. Backlund is a face. Backlund is supposed to look strong and he is the champion. He kicks out at one. He is constantly struggling. He makes people work for every inch. I conceded that Backlund is not going to win any awards for selling, but you make it seem as if heat sections are non-existent. I remember plenty of times, Hogan and Valentine worked on top in their respective matches with Backlund. I can think you work a ton of different styles and still be true to yourself. We all agree that a Flair match with Steamboat is different from one with Luger or one from Garvin, but Flair was still a big bumping, underhanded heel. He adjusted for his opponents, but he was still Flair. This is why I think people think there is a Flair formula, just because the spots are the same don't make it the same match. When I listen to Motley Crue, I think it is great that they vary their songs form glam rock, heavy metal, punk and ballads, but they still sound like Motley Crue. They are true to themselves. In his matches with Inoki and Valentine, he works great holds based matches. With Slaughter, Muraco and Patera, he works great brawls. With Hogan, he works one of the best power tit for tat matches ever. Yes, he is still Backlund and true to himself. The matches are a different style, but he works one style. I don't see how heel Flair works a different style in his matches. When he chops Luger or Sting it gets no-sold. When he chops Steamboat or Garvin, he ends up in a chop war. Flair is not deviating from his gameplan, but the matches are different because the opponents are different. If he could bully Kerry Von Erich like he did with Ricky Morton, he would. Backlund is out to prove he is the best in every style. Hogan is a power wrestler. I am going to out-power you. Inoki is a mat wrestler. I am going to best him on the mat. Slaughter is a brawler. Well I can do that too. That's Backlund's MO. He believes he is the best all-around wrestler. He is going to beat you at your game to prove it, but by still being Bob Backlund the scrappiest wrestler ever. Scrappy Doo sounds about right to me.

WCW US Champion Dustin Rhodes vs "Stunning" Steve Austin w/Col. Robert Parker - Starrcade 1993 2 Out Of 3 Falls "Well we certainly cant call her The Natural" - Jesse The Body Well that was anticlimactic. They gave the Nasties vs Sting & Hawk almost 30 minutes, but only let these guys have 15-ish for 2 out of 3 falls? Some of this has to be on the wrestlers as both where wrestling like they were going to go long, but then just went home. It was a really lo-fi match even by Austin's standards. I have no problem with a fundamentals-based match, but nothing seemed to connect. Austin would break Dustin's rhythm by going to the outside. Finally, Dustin said fuck it. They let loose and Dustin chucked Austin four rows deep into the stands. The crowd and I thought this where we were going to get going. Outside of some wicked sweet Dustin rights there was really not much to pop the crowd. Austin's work was real basic used ref's break or a Parker distraction to gain an advantage. Still he did not have the extra gear yet. Rhodes could always rely on his crowd to pop the crowd. Austin did not have an equivalent to garner heat. Rhodes makes his comeback punctuated by a bionic elbow. However, he chucks Austin over the top rope into Parker triggering the DQ finish. Austin blades off a post shot. It was a perfectly adequate first fall, but they seemed to be setting themselves up for some sweet stuff in the subsequent falls. Rhodes starts the second fall on fire, but he Beyonces the house lights. WCW is forced to use spotlights to light up the action. Rhodes goes for a nice series of 10 count punches in the corner when Austin double legs him in the corner to win with his feet on the ropes. WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?! It really did feel like an incomplete match. I am still shocked that was the finish. The '91 Halloween Havoc match blows that out of the water. It was really disappointing because you know what they can do on the mat and brawling, but the you get such a by the numbers match with a dogshit finish just sucks. I would say Dustin had more tools in his arsenal at this point, but Austin had more charisma.

I actually disagree with that assessment, but I have seen more of his Stone Cold work than his Stunning Steve work (which is the whole point of this project). Don't get me wrong I think it is pretty close. In WWF, he put it altogether. He knew how to work smart not hard so to speak. In WCW, he was a good dance partner, but it was always Windham, Pillman, Steamboat, and Rhodes leading him through the dance steps. By late '93, he was putting it altogether and was poised for a big run. In the WWF by late '96, he was Bret's equal in the ring, which is such a vast improvement in my eyes because I hold Bret in pretty high regard. After the injury, he was still working the most compelling matches in '98-'99 WWF because he had such a strong understanding of self and wrestling. To me, he always understood Stone Cold better than Stunning. Stone Cold always had a purpose and knew exactly what he wanted to do. Occasionally, "Stunning" Steve would meander and lose his way in a match. I don't always think he knew who "Stunning" Steve was. It is as simple as Stone Cold is more closely who he is. -------------------------------------- WCW World Champion Vader & "Stunning" Steve Austin w/Col. Robert Parker vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - WCW Saturday Night 11/13/93 Just three days after the Clash, Flair continues his feud with Vader originally with his partner, Sid Vicious. However, Sid had a mental meltdown and attacked Arn Anderson with a pair of scissors in real life this getting his ass fired. They write out Sid by having Harley's henchmen, The Colossal Kongs attack him and Vader hit his big splash. Flair ain't going to let the bad guys one-up him as he gets best friend, Arn Anderson to step in and a melee ensues. When I originally watched this match, I thought the AA FIP was insufferably long and made some jokes about it. As I was watching it again, I was like what I was talking about this has been great so far. Then it kept going and going and going. It was the fuckin energizer bunny of face in peril segments. The Horsemen always prided themselves on going all night long, but I hope it was not like this. In their defense, the opening was just downright explosive. Ric Flair was on fire and moving at the speed of light. He was supplying enough energy in this match to power the city of Hotalnta, GA. His exchanges out on the floor with Vader were awesome taking a jaw-first bump on the railing, Vader taking his chest-first bump hell even using a chair on Vader. That's how you do a TV brawl. Flair balling up his fists and ready to lay one on his opponent is one of the best things ever. Austin seemed overshadowed by the other three all-time great workers in this match. It is not that much of a slight against him. When Flair is supplying that much energy, he is a magnet and it is hard to take your eyes off him. Vader is such a force in the ring and Anderson was given a 15 minute FIP. Austin just did not standout. The short Flair FIP was pretty good as Austin was able to catch him and the back of the neck and the heels unloaded. I think the problem with the match lies that they went right from the Flair FIP to AA FIP, where they could have went more AWA style and had The Enforcer kick some ass before taking an ass-kicking. The first half of the Anderson FIP was actually pretty damn good. It was actually pretty good back and forth with Vader, who took a front suplex onto the railing. After a while the energy was sapped from AA and the hope spots just ended. I thought after Austin did Anderson's knucklelock spot that Flair would get the tag, but instead it kept going. By the end, everyone was running out of gas and the match, which started off with a bang was going out with a whimper. Only to add to my irritation, they wait until there is only 2 minutes left in the show before tagging in Flair. The place explodes for Flair, who rushes to get the figure-4 on Austin. Parker rakes his eyes and we go off the air with Vader attempting to land the Vaderbomb. WCW never did change. Given its length, I will probably not watch this match again. If they just did the first ten minutes as an out of control brawl to build to Flair/Vader and maybe use Dustin instead of Anderson that would have been perfect for Starrcade. I realize these shows were taped pretty far in advance so maybe they had not booked Dustin/Austin yet in their minds. The first ten minutes of this are absolutely great. I wish more TV matches from nowadays had this chaotic feel and used the outside so expertly. Everything seems so sanitized now. As for individual performances, I thought Flair was off the charts good. Vader was his usual badass self. Anderson is a weird FIP and he is definitely better on the heel side of tags. Unlike Flair, he does not have a babyface persona of himself. He comes off as stoic and unexpressive, which hurt him in such a heated environment. Austin came off a little bland in the match. His problem in this match and the Pillman match was he would take this wicked chop and he hit a weak ass chop back. Austin just did not work a heated style yet. He was better at mat-based championship style matches at this point. I would be remiss to mention he took a couple sick reverse elbows from Arn. He was definitely willing to take punishment, which I admire. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Stunning" Steve Austin w/Col. Robert Parker vs. 2 Cold Scorpio - WCW Power Hour 12/11/93 WCW TV was always good for pairings like this allowing you to see wrestlers against a variety of opponents. Even though Austin is getting pushed heavily he is pretty unselfish in the ring letting Scorpio take the lion's share of match, which is what you want out of a heel. Scorpio is a really good athletic, exciting midcard act. He hit one early highspot (reverse sunset flip) followed up with perfunctory armwork into a fast flurry of roll ups. Austin is able to break his momentum with some rough housing. Austin was definitely missing some spots in the ring, just some go to offensive moves to garner some heat. The jumping jack thing was not doing it for me. He needed more stuff like that, but better. Scorpio is able to connect with a strange cartwheel like splash from the top rope, but Parker distracts him from hitting the 450. Austin reverses a Scorpio rollup to win. Austin carries himself well in these matches and he is willing to give the babyfaces a lot, but he still missing spots in his arsenal to take him to the next level. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WCW US Champion Dustin Rhodes vs "Stunning" Steve Austin w/Col. Robert Parker - Starrcade 1993 2 Out Of 3 Falls "Well we certainly cant call her The Natural" - Jesse The Body Well that was anticlimactic. They gave the Nasties vs Sting & Hawk almost 30 minutes, but only let these guys have 15-ish for 2 out of 3 falls? Some of this has to be on the wrestlers as both where wrestling like they were going to go long, but then just went home. It was a really lo-fi match even by Austin's standards. I have no problem with a fundamentals-based match, but nothing seemed to connect. Austin would break Dustin's rhythm by going to the outside. Finally, Dustin said fuck it. They let loose and Dustin chucked Austin four rows deep into the stands. The crowd and I thought this where we were going to get going. Outside of some wicked sweet Dustin rights there was really not much to pop the crowd. Austin's work was real basic used ref's break or a Parker distraction to gain an advantage. Still he did not have the extra gear yet. Rhodes could always rely on his crowd to pop the crowd. Austin did not have an equivalent to garner heat. Rhodes makes his comeback punctuated by a bionic elbow. However, he chucks Austin over the top rope into Parker triggering the DQ finish. Austin blades off a post shot. It was a perfectly adequate first fall, but they seemed to be setting themselves up for some sweet stuff in the subsequent falls. Rhodes starts the second fall on fire, but he Beyonces the house lights. WCW is forced to use spotlights to light up the action. Rhodes goes for a nice series of 10 count punches in the corner when Austin double legs him in the corner to win with his feet on the ropes. WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?! It really did feel like an incomplete match. I am still shocked that was the finish. The '91 Halloween Havoc match blows that out of the water. It was really disappointing because you know what they can do on the mat and brawling, but the you get such a by the numbers match with a dogshit finish just sucks. I would say Dustin had more tools in his arsenal at this point, but Austin had more charisma.

Bob Backlund or Owen Hart? Bob Backlund or Brian Pillman? Bob Backlund or Steve Austin? Bob Backlund or Bret Hart? Bob Backlund or Jumbo Tsurta? Bob Backlund or Tito Santana? Bob Backlund or Tully Blanchard? Bob Backlund or Kurt Angle? Bob Backlund or Harley Race? Bob Backlund or Rick Rude? Bob Backlund or Scott Hall? Bob Backlund or William Regal? Bob Backlund or Triple H? Jumbo is definitively better than Backlund. Backlund, Austin, Bret are all in the same area. I need to rewatch a ton of Regal and watch more Blanchard. Backlund is better than Owen, Pillman, Tito, Harley, Rude, Hall and HHH. Having just watched Austin/Pillman, I feel like I am overrating Austin and underrating Pillman. Backlund is around #25 for me if I remember correctly from when I threw up my top 50 in response to Dylan and Musgrave's podcast. I have not even seen one of his '82 matches, which are supposed to be amazing. Backlund works so well against a variety of opponents in different type of matches that it is hard to deny his awesomeness. In May of 1980, he wrestled ****+ classics against Hogan, Dusty (NJPW) and Patera all of which are incredibly different. His May of 1980 maybe one of the best months in wrestling history. He is an absolute beast.

I think what I love about Austin is that he is not a prodigy. He works fuckin' hard and smart. He got a head because of effort. I love when a hard worker gets rewarded. Don't get me wrong, I think he always had it, but he did not always know how to convey "it" to an audience. What you see him in WCW is him putting together the whole package in terms of ring presence, timing and showmanship. He never had the biggest arsenal, but he always knew to make the most out of it. For now, I am going to focus on the tail end of his WCW career: his post-Blondes period and WCW US Championship reign. Flair seemed to have big plans for him in January of '94 before it kind of fizzled. He had a solid feud with Steamboat before being on job duty for "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan. WCW US Champion Dustin Rhodes vs "Stunning" Steve Austin - WCW Halloween Havoc '93 At this point, Austin is still being billed as a member of the Hollywood Blondes (the breakup would happen on 10/30/93) and he did not have Col. Robert Parker. Dustin Rhodes was coming off a lackluster feud with a broken down Rude. I feel that Dustin seemed like the bigger the prospect, but Austin had closed the gap considerably since their '91 Havoc match. It is hard not to compare this match to their awesome '91 Havoc encounter and it does fall short of that match. However, this match had different intentions as they were looking to milk this over the course of a couple PPVs thus they could not go for broke. The biggest issue was a pretty dead New Orleans crowd, which just was not biting on their highspots. In the crowd's defense, this was not the world's most exciting match. Austin has a clear grasp of heel psychology, but has not figured out how to put it all together to have carry a great match yet. I liked his use of the slap early and milking it with a stroll around the ring. Unfortunately, when Dustin went to get his receipt he fell too early and it did not have the sound to make the crowd pop. That sequence encapsulates the match. There were great spots, but they were either missing transitions or just were timed well. The match finally kicks into gear when Austin misses a high knee into the turnbuckle and spills to outside. I like when they turn a conventional story on its head with the heel having the injury. Unlike a face valiantly overcoming his injury, Austin kicks Dustin's balls. It is just self-preservation, baby. Another cool spot is Austin tries to pick Dustin up, but Dustin overpowers him. You think Austin is going to eat turnbuckles, but instead he propels himself off the turnbuckle to land a kneedrop. Tony and I were quite impressed. Dustin starts mounting a comeback with his sweet punches, but Austin blocks the bulldog by crotching Dustin on the top turnbuckle. When watching Dustin felt like the better wrestler, but Austin was doing all the spots that really stuck with me. Dustin was better at fundamentals, but Austin was working some good high spots. Dustin is able to counter the Stun Gun with a Thesz Press. I am a sucker for symmetry. Austin thinks he wins with his feet on the ropes, but ref waives it off. Dustin wins with a roll-up due to the confusion. What a fucking lame finish. Austin lets us know this is not over by pasting Dustin with the US Title. This match had plenty of good highspots, but all the glue was dull. The beginning was especially boring and aimless. I felt they were trying to consciously save something for Starrcade instead of going balls to the wall like in '91. The commentators put over all that Austin had learned from Pillman and I think Austin did learn a lot about psychology from Pillman, but he was not putting together complete matches. Dustin felt ho-hum when I know he can be a lot more engaging. It was a disappointing match, but still overall featured solid work and some innovative spots. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Stunning" Steve Austin w/Col. Robert Parker vs Brian Pillman - Clash of the Champions XXV I blame WCW for this not being one of the all-time classics in wrestling history. Due to the hotshot booking of the Blonds breakup, Pillman & Austin were forced to work two really great matches in one basically. The first half of the match is a heated grudge match style Donnybrook bridged into a counterwrestling style (playing off being former partners). Each section is worked at a sprint pace and it does not feel too disjointed. However, I think each segment could have stood as it is own 15-20 minute classic if WCW pushed this as a lengthy, blood feud. The Battle of the Blonds begins at a break-neck pace and they are just at each other's throat. Brian Pillman is in his element throughout the beginning working a violent, hate-filled fight. He lets his anger toward Parker cost him, but ultimately it is a high-risk splash onto the ramp that eats a foot that does him in. Austin is able to chuck him off the railing for that always sick bump. Pillman does not know how to quite, but eats a stun gun. I love that this match was setup by a seemingly random segment where Pillman took exception to Parker taking interest in them and Austin signing with Parker. These guys wrestled the first five minutes liked the other slept with their woman and took their house. Nowadays, we have the disconnect in the other direction all heat in the buildup and none in the ring. Pillman is so scrappy and losing none of his heel edge even eye-rakes Austin to keep him away from the bad knee. Austin applies a half-crab, but gets caught holding the ropes for leverage. Thus begins the counterwrestling. I am pretty sure they counter every single one of each other's spot to prove how well they know each other. For example, Austin get crotched on top rope, but Austin counters the superplex with a front suplex, but Pillman counters his move off the top with his dropkick spot. It was just fuckin' fantastic work and so well-executed. Austin countered Air Pillman with a powerslam. Pillman countered the Stun Gun by holding the rope to land on the apron. However, the one thing Pillman could not account for with his time with Austin was Parker, who hooked Pillman's leg and Austin drove Pillman's head to mat for the win, what an excellent finish. Unless, I find something in 1994, this is Pillman's last Godly performance as a babyface. He absolutely rules this match and I thought he came off as the star to watch. Austin was a good heel. He just was not bringing the hate like Pillman. Once, it got into counter-wrestling he was with Pillman every step of the way. The match is a little disjointed because it is basically two halves, but it is an excellent match that does not get enough praise. Break this into two matches with each getting 15-20 minutes, you have two classics on your hand and one of the best feuds of all time. It is just too bad.

I do NOT miss when you all would be talking and all of sudden some rapper would fucking yell "FUCK DISCO! COUNT OF MONTE CRISTO! FUCK CISCO! JACK AND JERRY BRISCO!" The volume change and anger always spooked me while driving.

HEY! They are not that long!

I didn't even know Austin stuck around this long in WCW. I thought he got fired after jobbing to Duggan a couple times in '94. "If you don't want your tights pulled, don't wear tights" - Classic Heenan Austin's ring presence, his swagger, and the intangibles are all there plain to see for anyone. I didn't like his offense that much in this match. He is never one to work snug, but I thought his strike looked awfully weak. Everything he did at least built to the Boston Crab. I thought the headlock stuff was a bit more tepid this go-around. I did like that Austin's headlock ended up with the press slam. I got a kick out of Parker fanning Austin when he took a powder. El-P is right as Sting just decides to end the heat segment with a clothesline out of the corner. The missing dueling splashes was cool if only to see Austin actually off the top rope with a splash. I don't think I have ever seen that. The tombstone piledriver reversal should have been the finish, but hey what are you gonna do. Sting wins with an Oklahoma Roll. There is a lot of political bullshit and injuries that are fucking with Austin's mind and body at this time. It is not a great performance, but again it is interesting to see him develop his unique charisma in the ring. This is a more complete match than '94, but they could have had better. It was a decent TV match in a pretty lackluster era for WCW.

I can't believe Austin went from this to jobbing to Duggan around the horn by the end of the year. I have not really seen "it" with Austin yet until this match. He definitely conveyed a greater sense of being self-assured in this match than the previous encounters I had seen. His style for 1994 was so different than pretty much everyone else beside heel Doink The Clown. He was not a big bumping heel. He would stooge, but he felt a lot more understated than yesteryear's heels. He mocked Sting, but also was credible on the mat. He drew his heel heat from frustration rather outright cowardice or cheating. Eventually, he would add a level of roughhousing and meaness to his character that finally took him from potential star to superstar. Having Parker for a manager was good for him because he needed some to display weakness and to draw more heat. He could look strong and Parker represented his faults. Plus the "KFC" chants were hilarious. This was the best mat wrestling from Sting I think I have ever seen. He has come along way from those shitty, loose armbars of 1988! Sting is really good at showing up heels. It is the best part of his babyface character. Whether it is his Sting holler, outwrestling or overpowering his opponent thats where Sting shines. Austin uses the superplex to transition into a nice spinning armbar, which Sting fights outta from his back. Sting sells the arm, while punching his way back into it. Pillman decided he can not stand looking at the Colonel's mug on TV any longer and chases him. He gets in the ring and Pillman hits Austin. This triggers a DQ and the ref stops Sting from putting on the deathlock. In his promo, Austin gets it. Austin huffing and puffing says he can go another 30 and was ready to be the first man to reverse the Scorpion before that nefarious Flyin Brian robbed him of the opportunity. It is a great match to chart Austin's progression, but you never get the full story in this one.

Brian Pillman vs Johnny B. Badd - Fall Brawl '95 Pillman's "Blonds Have More Fun" is an excellent slab of pop metal. Nice to see pop metal still had home somewhere in 1995. Before the match, the crowd is already firmly behind Johnny B. Badd. The winner of this match receives a mandatory US Title shot against then holder, Sting. In this snippet of Pillman's career, he was not often paired with someone he had to carry. unfortunately, I did not have access to his GAB '95 match as a comparison point. Both were ostensibly face vs. face matches against an carryable opponent where Pillman chose to play the heel in that match. You can tell how much Pillman hated being a face at this point in his career. The first 5 or minutes are filled with lackadaisical, slow-motion hold work. They do the obligatory dropkick each other at the same time. One of my pet peeves in wrestling is when a wrestler just drops a hold for no reason and that happens more than once in this portion. Business picks up with a Billy Robinson backbreaker into a Boston Crab by Pillman. He lets go to punch Badd with a closed fist and Pillman starts to jaw with the fans and the camera. I was pretty underwhelmed with the match until that point. Badd hits a tilt-a-whirl backbreaker. Shoving exchange is won by Badd, which gets a nice pop. Pillman backs him into a corner and hits a hard reverse elbow. Pillman goes full-on heel at this point taking the walk up the aisleway, the facetious handshake and biting Badd. They have a sick collision on a double Thesz Press attempt, where was this fire earlier. At this point, it just turns into a bombfest, which is so strange for 1995 WCW and I was totally caught off guard. I enjoyed it a lot. Badd had a lot more aerial moves in his arsenal than "Flyin'" Brian. I always felt that was a misnomer that got him pigeon holed in places he did not belong when he should be having violent brawls because watching the footage he was so well-suited for that. Badd hits a powerbomb and Pillman hits a tombstone piledriver. Are we in the Budokan? They trade finishers (Tutti Frutti & Air Pillman) as the time limit expires. Nick Patrick says there must be a winner so we go to sudden death! Heenan wonders when he is going to get a chance to shave, which I thought was hilarious. Pillman chops the fuck outta Badd on the outside. YES! That's the Pillman I want! Badd counters a Pillman missile dropkick with a dropkick a callback to Pillman's counter-dropkick spot. They trade sleepers. Misawa counters Kawada's powerbomb with a headscissors takeover. I am sorry, I meant Pillman counters Badd's powerbomb with a headscissors takeover. I find a out a Badd Day is a Top Rope Frankensteiner and Pillman takes a great bump for it. He follows up that bump with always sick-looking railing bump. I find out a Badd Mood is a crazy somersault plancha. Lets Go Badd! I might have to explore him further. Badd does a reverse slingshot splash and eats knees. Pillman looking to prove why he is "Flyin Brian" and keep up The Badd Man whiffs pretty bad on a suicide dive. In his defense, Badd should have closer and to add to the complexity the stairs where right up against the apron there so he had to clear that too. At 30 minutes into the match, they fuckin sprint against the ropes and collide mid-ring with Badd falling on top for the win. Pillman-san and Badd-san had quite the match that night that hitherto was rarely seen in America. Unfortunately, this style was copied and stripped down missing the transitions to hold together the big spots. Yes, the beginning of the match was lackluster, but once Pillman effectively turns heel it gets a lot better. I wish Pillman had a better transition to turning heel rather just kind of just snapping his fingers and saying I am going to heel it up. To that point, Pillman bumps like a heel, but does offense like a babyface, which I feel hurts how the middle of the match connects to the amazing finish. It is a very disjointed match, which I hate rating. The beginning was some of the lamest face vs. face wrestling you'll ever see. The middle was an interesting period where Pillman was heeling it up and Badd was playing the hero well in their mini-battles. Then finish they just go balls to the walls and Pillman stops cheating and heeling. There is no glue. Within the finish stretch, the transitions are great and they have plenty of callback psychology. I just can't fit the three portions of the match together. I hate rating matches like this. What I have found interesting about this match is a lot people just throw out **** and don't say why it falls shy of ***** (not this group, but those who review for other sites). The finish stretch, which is incredibly long for an American match, is friggin' good that I will agree with the consensus and give it ****. I am trying to do star ratings to keep everything straight for future lists and projects. ----------------------------------------- Loss, I agree with you to extent, but I think I may disagree with some modifiers. It was not that it was un-physical to me. It felt like they were in slow-motion for the longest time. That was actually some pretty poor wrestling at the beginning. They were getting up and out of holds at will. I agree Pillman goes heel in the middle, but he totally departs from that for his big Japanese finish stretch. It is a weird match. I am not surprised it has a big rep based on the incredible home stretch both in length and quality, but at same time I don't feel like it is a classic. To me it is a really interesting experiment.

Before the dream conversation fades away, I had a dream where Chavo Classic and I went looking for footage of his old matches in a supermarket. It has never crossed my mind to ever watch old Chavo matches, but now all of sudden I have quite the urge.

That is some heavy shit. The ex-wife suicide is just batshit. I could never imagine dealing with something like that. You wish that he could have accepted a non-ring role and lived his life, but it was just not how we wired. Just a tragedy. Brian Pillman & Arn Anderson vs. Sting & Ric Flair - Halloween Havoc '95 WE WANT FLAIR! WE WANT FLAIR! WE WANT FLAIR! I liked this crowd's style. Flair was mysteriously "attacked" and Sting is going it alone for the time being mirroring Flair's rolling solo efforts on Nitro. I really liked the babyface shines in both matches a lot. Anderson and Pillman were really effective in getting Sting over, bumping their asses off for him. I loved how the Horsemen altered their game plan upon each failed attempt to double team. When trying to pin Sting in their corner failed, they moved to being in the ring at the same time, then Pillman slapped Sting to goad him to the floor and still Sting saw it coming. This is new and improved Sting. He will NOT be emotionally compromised. From the slap, Pillman now offers a handshake. It is best hits of heel tag teaming! Sting press slams Pillman. In a great spot, Sting catapults AA into Pillman's crotch. Subsequently, Sting chucks Pillman onto the railing for his signature bump. Pillman manages to pull himself up to the apron, but only the top rope is holding him up. So Anderson cracks Sting's skull off of Flyin' Brian's and finally the heels gain the upper hand. That is how you work a face shine sequence. The heels went through their arsenal of tricks and each time Sting either outsmarted or outpowered them only to falter to the numbers game. I love how it was just conventionally two guys caught up to Sting it was actually AA using an out of his feet Pillman like a prop. It was a tremendous transition spot. Here's come The Man! The crowd goes bezerk and I just have a mile wide smile. I am total sucker for babyface Flair. He is just too much fun. The heat segment is effective, but not as fun as the shine. Flair gets involved, but never really grabs a hold of the Horsemen. He lets himself be goaded by Pillman into giving chase, but again does not wrangle him. How convenient? The spinebuster is the one heel highspot, but the entertainment is derived from the Flair as a cheerleader and the constant cutoffs. All the drama is what will happen when Sting gets that damn tag. He gets his knees up on a Pillman splash, but AA cuts off with a back suplex. They keep this up until finally Sting gets a double noggin knocker. TAG TO FLAIR! TAG TO FLAIR! TAG TO FLAIR! NOW WE GO TO SCHOOL! HE CLOCKS STING! That never gets old. Horsemen beatdown and a good chunk of the crowd is still cheering for Flair. This is a really good match and one of my all-time favorites. I wished they explained some of the timeline better, but hey I enjoyed all of it. At the end of day, it is as simple as blood is thicker than water. I love the insane loyalty and devotion they have to each other. It is Flair & The Enforcer against the world. That's how it always has been and always will be. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Pillman vs Alex Wright - Saturday Night 9/10/95 This is the rematch from their GAB '95 match. If anyone has that match, please hook a brutha up. I have sent out some feelers and so far have come up dry. You can see how much experience matters in a match like this. Pillman knows exactly what he can and what he wants to do. He is very sure of himself as he goes to the mat or does a dropkick here and there. He lets Wright shine, but Wright just isn't there. Wright has some cool ideas. He does some slick European chain wrestling, but occasionally lets go or misses a connection. I don't if he ever put it together, but I appreciated the attempt even if it was no Pat O'Connor vs Lorenzo Parente. Wright vs. Regal could have be interesting and I will have to check it out. Things eventually heat up as they trade chops and European uppercuts. Wright gets a nice headscissors in and a belly to belly. He definitely had a lot of potential. They do a bridge sequence into a backslide and Pillman gets the win. It was a nice little face vs face encounter. The next night Pillman was turning heel so I don't think he minded making Wright look like the about to go in a completely different direction. You could really see the difference between a seasoned veteran and a rookie in this match. As Pillman was simple, but very effective in his execution, while Wright's reach sometimes outstretched his grasp. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Pillman vs Johnny B. Badd - Fall Brawl '95 Pillman's "Blonds Have More Fun" is an excellent slab of pop metal. Nice to see pop metal still had home somewhere in 1995. Before the match, the crowd is already firmly behind Johnny B. Badd. The winner of this match receives a mandatory US Title shot against then holder, Sting. In this snippet of Pillman's career, he was not often paired with someone he had to carry. unfortunately, I did not have access to his GAB '95 match as a comparison point. Both were ostensibly face vs. face matches against an carryable opponent where Pillman chose to play the heel in that match. You can tell how much Pillman hated being a face at this point in his career. The first 5 or minutes are filled with lackadaisical, slow-motion hold work. They do the obligatory dropkick each other at the same time. One of my pet peeves in wrestling is when a wrestler just drops a hold for no reason and that happens more than once in this portion. Business picks up with a Billy Robinson backbreaker into a Boston Crab by Pillman. He lets go to punch Badd with a closed fist and Pillman starts to jaw with the fans and the camera. I was pretty underwhelmed with the match until that point. Badd hits a tilt-a-whirl backbreaker. Shoving exchange is won by Badd, which gets a nice pop. Pillman backs him into a corner and hits a hard reverse elbow. Pillman goes full-on heel at this point taking the walk up the aisleway, the facetious handshake and biting Badd. They have a sick collision on a double Thesz Press attempt, where was this fire earlier. At this point, it just turns into a bombfest, which is so strange for 1995 WCW and I was totally caught off guard. I enjoyed it a lot. Badd had a lot more aerial moves in his arsenal than "Flyin'" Brian. I always felt that was a misnomer that got him pigeon holed in places he did not belong when he should be having violent brawls because watching the footage he was so well-suited for that. Badd hits a powerbomb and Pillman hits a tombstone piledriver. Are we in the Budokan? They trade finishers (Tutti Frutti & Air Pillman) as the time limit expires. Nick Patrick says there must be a winner so we go to sudden death! Heenan wonders when he is going to get a chance to shave, which I thought was hilarious. Pillman chops the fuck outta Badd on the outside. YES! That's the Pillman I want! Badd counters a Pillman missile dropkick with a dropkick a callback to Pillman's counter-dropkick spot. They trade sleepers. Misawa counters Kawada's powerbomb with a headscissors takeover. I am sorry, I meant Pillman counters Badd's powerbomb with a headscissors takeover. I find a out a Badd Day is a Top Rope Frankensteiner and Pillman takes a great bump for it. He follows up that bump with always sick-looking railing bump. I find out a Badd Mood is a crazy somersault plancha. Lets Go Badd! I might have to explore him further. Badd does a reverse slingshot splash and eats knees. Pillman looking to prove why he is "Flyin Brian" and keep up The Badd Man whiffs pretty bad on a suicide dive. In his defense, Badd should have closer and to add to the complexity the stairs where right up against the apron there so he had to clear that too. At 30 minutes into the match, they fuckin sprint against the ropes and collide mid-ring with Badd falling on top for the win. Pillman-san and Badd-san had quite the match that night that hitherto was rarely seen in America. Unfortunately, this style was copied and stripped down missing the transitions to hold together the big spots. Yes, the beginning of the match was lackluster, but once Pillman effectively turns heel it gets a lot better. I wish Pillman had a better transition to turning heel rather just kind of just snapping his fingers and saying I am going to heel it up. To that point, Pillman bumps like a heel, but does offense like a babyface, which I feel hurts how the middle of the match connects to the amazing finish. It is a very disjointed match, which I hate rating. The beginning was some of the lamest face vs. face wrestling you'll ever see. The middle was an interesting period where Pillman was heeling it up and Badd was playing the hero well in their mini-battles. Then finish they just go balls to the walls and Pillman stops cheating and heeling. There is no glue. Within the finish stretch, the transitions are great and they have plenty of callback psychology. I just can't fit the three portions of the match together. What I have found interesting about this match is a lot people just throw out **** and don't say why it falls shy of *****. The finish stretch, which is incredibly long for an American match, is friggin' good that I will agree with the consensus and give it ****. I am trying to do star ratings to keep everything straight for future lists and projects.

I don't think there is a consensus great match from the WWF for Pillman. He was pretty fucked from the accident. That being said that's why you have to watch ALL the footage.

Brian Pillman vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 11/20/95 Ric Flair is originally scheduled to face Guerrero on Nitro, but he tells Pillman to "take care of my light work". Pillman mocks Guerrero's Mexican heritage by using his jacket like a matador would. They two have some excellent chopfests that are as intense as Pillman/Flair, but don't get quite the same reaction. I love Pillman's use of the slap and Eddie makes sure to get a receipt to punctuate a nice flurry of offense. Pillman uses his midair dropkick to gain control and then it is dirty tactics to maintain. The crowd is not hot for them even though Pillman spits on Eddie, but Eddie's double leg gets a bit of a reaction. Pillman is definitely in Loose Canon mode, but the audience is just not there, but they would get there. Pillman takes his railing bump missing a double axehandle to outside. Eddie follows up with a huge dive from the top turnbuckles and then a brainbuster. Pillman struggles a bit more, but eventually eats the frogsplash to give Eddie a huge win. Bischoff seemed intent on pushing Benoit, Guerrero and Malenko at this point as important midcard players. Pillman was very entertaining throughout the match. He was such a despicable human in that ring. There were some slow spots and I would put the Malenko match over this, but this was a great Pillman performance. Eddie was also on fire. He is the newcomer and he earned every bit of that crowd reaction by standing toe-to-toe with Pillman in the chop exchanges, big dives and dishing out the punishment. Good TV match. Brian Pillman & Arn Anderson vs Sting & Lex Luger - Nitro 11/27/95 This match was more of a back drop for the Lex Luger angle. Luger is a heel for turning on Hogan & aligning with Jimmy Hart, but he is friends with Sting. Will he turn on Sting? Can he be trusted? Sting has issues with the Horsemen since they duped him at Havoc. Luger was late to the match, but makes up for it with a blind knee while AA runs the ropes. This is in perfect symmetry with Pillman high kick/AA spinebuster combo. I love Luger, but trying to out-heel AA & Pillman is going to be tough. Sting hits facebusters on everyone. Press slams by both. Anderson gets sent into Pillman on the apron, which causes the Pillman bump to the railing. Luger kicks some ass heel style with moves like rubbing Anderson's face across the ropes. Stinger Splash and Scorpion Deathlock on The Enforcer. Pillman ascends the top turnbuckle to save, but Luger pushes him off right into Sting's knee. Was it intentional? The heels have a decent heat segment. Pillman goads Luger away from his corner so that he misses a tag. Luger finally has enough and comes in to clean house. Sting negotiates an O'Connor roll on Pillman to win. Flair is out to beat down his two opponents for Starrcade, but Hogan makes the save. Hogan goes to clock Luger, but Sting restrains him. Whose side is he on? Pillman was hardly in this match. He still jawed with the fans or camera when he got a chance. It felt like he was just in the match to eat the pin. Anderson was good to get over the angle and stooge for Sting & Luger. Sting & Luger was just such a great angle and this match really established where they were going forward with this angle. Early Nitro was really good at using 5-10 minute matches that also sufficed as angle development segments. I would like to see that style incorporated better in the modern product.

I need to listen to the Austin/Meltzer podcast yesterday, but I just cant find a set amount of time to listen to all of it. I know once I start, I wont be able to stop that one.

That post was getting long will wrap up the rest of Pillman's WCW '95-'96 run here. Brian Pillman vs. Ric Flair - Nitro 9/18/95 You know whenever these two get together it is going to be a fuckin' barnburner. They did not disappoint. Pillman interfered and helped Anderson beat Flair at Fall Brawl '95. Flair cut a promo early stating that Anderson should not have brought outsiders into the family feud and now he was going to beat Pillman all over Johnson City, Tennessee. I just love the little bits of babyface Flair you get everyone once and a while. His babyface strut that ends with his fists balled up always makes me mark out. I loved their chopfests throughout this match. The heat was just off the charts and the crowd was all about babyface Flair. He even hit a big double axehandle from the top to the floor on Pillman. Pillman was still honing in his new heel persona, but he feels so much better than the stuff I was watching him earlier in '95. Flair ducks the clothesline while running the apron and hits his own. Babyface Flair rules! Pillman catches him with a dropkick off the top, which is his best '95 spot until he developed his heel spots. Flair hits snake eyes on the railing and Pillman Flair Flops. This is a great TV match. They surprise me as Flair takes a press slam off the top. It looks like Flair is going for the kneecrusher, but hits a back suplex. Pillman submits to the figure-4 and ends this way too early. O God in Heaven, why could we not get a Pillman heat segment! This is nowhere near their '90 or '91 encounters, but still it is a very energetic and heated affair. Flair looks awesome in this and Pillman looks refreshed and on his way to something big. -------------------------------------------------------------- WCW US Champion Sting vs Brian Pillman - Saturday Night 9/30/95 This should be Johnny B. Badd's title shot, but he mysteriously disappeared and conveniently Brian Pillman received his US title shot (Badd and Pillman fought for a US title shot at Fall Brawl '95). Pillman is starting to come into his own as the Loose Canon. He knocks down the railing and jaws with the fans. Pillman is always down to clown in his matches, which I appreciate. Modern heels should not be so afraid to look foolish in the ring. Finally one of his heel tricks works as he does the old Hollywood Blonde's trick knee gimmick and he chop blocks Sting's knee. He works on Sting's knee for a bit with a single leg crab. Sting makes his big comeback with a press slam and then catches Pillman with a powerslam to win. After the match, the hot angle was Flair looking for a partner in his fight against AA & Flyin' Brian and Sting shut his ass down. No way, Jose! Abbreviated match, but Pillman was pretty enjoyable. Too bad, he was never given the time to have an all-time classic as the Loose Canon in WCW before the accident. He had all the heel tools to really deliver a big time match. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Pillman & Arn Anderson vs Ric Flair & Sting - Nitro 10/16/95 Ric Fuckin Flair, BABY! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! The objective was to efface any doubt in Sting's and the fans' minds that Flair is on the up and up and sell the big Havoc '95 tag match. Well everybody still probably figured Flair was turning on Sting, but hey this was a fun, fun match. Flair was just amped throughout this match. I wish they could bottle Flair's energy because I could use some during the week, Pillman and Flair had some great chopfests. I loved that as soon as Pillman got the advantage he whipped Flair over to Anderson and Flair still would not stop fighting. The babyface Flair strut ending with his fists balled up is my favorite thing in the world right now. He kicks ass on the floor and even chucks Pillman from the apron to the railing chin-first. I missed the Pillman bump. Flair slaps on the figure-4 on AA and he moves out of the way of Pillman's splash. Im lovin it. AA gets an eye-rake on Flair while he applies on the figure-4 on Pillman. Pillman with his blind kick to Flair's head and the spinebuster swing the match in the favor of the Horsemen. NOW, Sting makes his entrance and the crowd is pumped. Flair hot tag to Sting and HUGE POP! Stinger splashes for everyone. Sting clothesline The Enforcer over the top rope and Sting chucks Pillman onto the top rope. Sting & Flair stand triumphant winning by countout. They cement their newfound friendship with a high-five. The Brain is gonna puke. This was 90% babyface offense, but it sure was fun. Pillman was taking huge bumps. AA was awesome making Sting & Flair look great. Flair and Sting were on point. Anderson and Pillman were really banking on Sting not showing up and now they have to replan. While Flair and Sting look like they are going to exact some revenge, but this Ric Flair after all...

Brian Pillman vs Eddie Guerrero - Clash of the Champions XXXII Tony: "Given the actions that just transpired, I think it is safe to say you want Eddie to win." Bobby: "Oh no! I still like Pillman's style. Just keep him away from me." Classic Heenan. This match is infamous for adding the cult status of Pillman's Loose Canon gimmick. During one of his strolls around the outside, he decided to try to take off Heenan's jacket. Heenan, with a very fragile neck, was unnerved and explicitly said on air "What the fuck are you doing?" He composed himself and continued to be a proponent of Pillman. What is interesting is that before Pillman did that to Heenan, he kinda shoved Tony in the head. That sort of freaked the Brain out as he stated "Your head whipped back and forth" in a nervous tone. That comment could have been subtle foreshadowing. Was Brain in on the deal? The match was short and more focused on getting Pillman over as a character. I liked Eddie not backing down from Pillman's four fingers in his face. Pillman was a really effective heel. He cheats, cowers, and is proud of his Four Horsemen status. I don't know if everybody has to go as far as Pillman would with the cheating, but I would like some modern heels to actual be heels in the ring. An eyerake never hurt anyone. Eddie had some cool offense to pop the crowd like a tilt-a-whirl backbreaker or the tornado DDT. Also, he got his receipt for a Pillman slap with a paintbrush of his own. I liked how Guerrero and Malenko did not back down from Pillman and each had their own spots. They did not have feel like generic faces, but wrestlers contributing to a match. After a double leg takedown with the feet on the ropes did not work, Pillman hit a nice cross body and grabbed the tights for the win. You could only wish that there was no accident and that Pillman could have gotten 20 minutes with these guys because he was such an excellent heel. He was combining the heel tactics from his mentors, Flair & AA, with maniacal tendencies that created a unique blend of heel hitherto unexplored.

Brian Pillman & Chris Benoit vs Bart Sawyer & Buck Quartermaine - WCW Pro 01/13/96 The recently formed Four Horsemen had a healthy heaping of squash in this match, but it was the best type of squash: the type you work for. They actually worked a straight, short tag match that focused on heels dominating, but it still had a shine, heat and comeback. I think Pillman & Benoit looked better for it. I have been trying to get Brian Pillman's haircut from this era forever. Giving it another whirl on Saturday. This Pillman was so different from the one just 4 years ago. He works smarter and it able to use every heel trick to get his character over as volatile and violent. Ambrose has a lot of Pillman in him and he needs to continue learn from Pillman. Benoit is just a total prick and his offense is crisp as usual. They work Sawyer in a heat segment only for him to crawl through Benoit's legs to get the hot tag. Quartermaine is able to get a dropkick before being planted by a Benoit powerbomb. Benoit's powerbomb may be my favorite powerbomb ever. Pillman then dropkicks Quartermaine into a dragon suplex. This was a very high-end squash. Pillman and Benoit complemented each other well. They are total pricks, but different kinds. Pillman is off his rocker and focuses on tried and true heel offense like raking the face and cheating. Benoit is a violent prick with badass offense. They could have been a great tag team if Pillman stayed on. -------------------------------------------------------- Brian Pillman & Arn Anderson vs Steve & Scott Armstrong - WCW Worldwide 09/23/95 The freshly turned heel Brian Pillman does not have his Loose Canon persona developed nor the bitchin' hair he would later have. This is the first time Anderson & Pillman has teamed since Pillman aided AA against Flair at Fall Brawl '95. This is a competitive match, but the finish was never in doubt. There was some decent spots, but it felt a bit underwhelming and lackluster. AA is willing to give the Armstongs a lot at the beginning. They outsmart him and then he begs off into the corner saying "Are you insane?". He definitely went over the top in trying to sell the Armstrongs as a threat. Pillman did plenty of heelish things in the match, but he was not vicious as he would become. He worked more in the vein of a AA-style heel with lots of stooging like crawling away on his knees from Scott's chops. He did this leapfrog spot that with better execution could be awesome. He leapfrogged Scott and then expected to leapfrog him again and instead he lands on a well-placed Scott knee. With better execution, they could have really had something. Anderson get a blind tag and plants a knee in Scott's back. Pillman closes the gap with a wicked clothesline. Scott has one of the most jobbererfic looks ever with an awful mullet, plain blue singlet and a lanky, skinny frame. They do abdominal stretch cheating spot. This match feels like the best hits of Arn Anderson, but done at lukewarm. Pillman eats knees on a rocket launcher. Steve comes in and he looks and wrestles way better than Scott. He runs through the usual babyface comeback offense. He climaxes with a clothesline off the top. Pillman makes the save. Pillman hits Steve in the head with a kick while he runs the ropes and AA plants him with a DDT for the win. It is a perfectly good match and I love the best hits of The Enforcer. It just felt like Pillman was wrestling as an Arn Anderson clone and he could have be so much more. Also, I think the heels could have made the lowly Armstrongs earn more. They underestimated them then Armstrongs gain the upper hand and we get the freak out moment rather just out of the gate "Oh Shit!". I would not go out of my way to watch this match as Pillman would grow more into his own in this role and AA has had way better TV tags than this. --------------------------------------------------------------- WCW World TV Champion Arn Anderson w/ Ric Flair vs Brian Pillman - WCW Main Event 4/16/95 Flair has been reinstated and he back with his old pal, Arn Anderson. I found it amusing when Dusty speculated that Flair and Anderson may actually be family to explain their closeness. I was expecting Tony to say well they are cousins. Pillman had apparently been out for late '94 and was doing squash matches in early '95. He was being revamped as California Brian with the theme of Blonds Have More Fun. Cowabunga, dude! In some ways the booking is what I am really finding fault with in this match. He is still playing the plucky upstart against a champion just like in his Luger '89 and Flair matches. However, I think some fault has to be laid at his feet for how lukewarm this match was. In those matches, he was contributing to the match with a unique presence. In this match, he feels like he retrogressed to a vanilla challenger. Before, he was mixing aerial tactics, stiff chops and scrappiness to create a distinctive force in the ring. Now, he is just a hammerlocking, one early nearfall, reverse elbow-eating, Flair whipping boy on the outside, back body dropping, clotheslining, losing to an illegal sunset flip, generic babyface. Wright protests that Anderson had his hand clasped with Flair during the sunset flip. Flair and Wright spill out to the floor. In classic WCW fashion, they restart the match, but tell nobody. Flair intervenes and kicks Pillman during a cover to draw the DQ. I smell a rematch. Anderson looked fine here. It was just Anderson by the numbers. Anderson always looks like a star and a champion. I liked how he cheated early on and Pillman was still able to negotiate back into hammerlock. It was their best stretch. The best part of the heat segment was Flair's beatdown on Pillman. I can't believe how interchangeable Pillman felt in this. It may have been some rust and disenchantment with the system. Lets see what happens in the rematch. --------------------------------------------------------------------- WCW World TV Champion Arn Anderson vs Brian Pillman - WCW Worldwide 5/28/95 Who the fuck thought those hair extensions were a good idea for Pillman? Anderson has just helped Flair beat up the elderly Angelo Poffo at Slamboree, which sets up one of my all-time favorite matches, Flair vs Savage at GAB '95. Anderson is booked against Renegade at GAB and Pillman who continues to be totally directionless is booked against Alex Wright. When I first saw this series on paper, I had high hopes it would be as good as the Pillman/Windham series of '91. I thought this match was much better than the first match, but still didn't get to the place I feel like they could have due to an abrupt finish. The big improvement was in the heat and home stretch. The beginning saw Pillman use the headlock as his base, which was fine. Things picked up once The Enforcer hit a hotshot on Pillman. Both wrestlers worked hard from then on out and Pillman started to look like the Pillman of old. He was peppering in chops forcing AA to do cutoffs like hitting a swinging neckbreaker, which Pillman sold like a million bucks bouncing himself to the outside. They do the Arn-staple of the heads colliding in the corner. Arn attempts to hit a move off the second rope only for the Pillman to hit a dropkick on the button. I like when the babyface transitions by combining 2-3 spots together. Pillman is way more into this match and trying way harder to get the crowd involved. They blow a crossbody roll through, but Pillman makes it up with a sweet second rope bulldog and a great flying headscissors. The finish is lame as Anderson rolls to the apron and just snaps Pillman across the top rope. He at least has the courtesy to put his feet on the rope. Pillman was on quite a roll before the match ended abruptly. Anderson looked good was playing a great foil for Pillman. He made Pillman look good and when he went on offense he always transitioned in an underhanded way. They definitely put a lot more effort in this match and it shows. It is too bad they never got 20 minutes together. This series was pretty disappointing. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Pillman vs Jushin "Thunder" Liger - Nitro 9/4/95 This is the answer to the trivia question, "What was the first match in the history of Monday Night Nitro". It is a statement match and how WCW was going to distinguish itself from WWF: International talent, smaller talent, lots of action, no selling and botches. Pillman seemed awfully sloppy at times and was still a couple weeks away from the heel turn that would take him from missed prospect to cult legend. Liger is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time, but he knew his job here: BRING DA MOVEZ~! Kappo Kicks, Mexican Surfboard (take notes, Das Wunderkind), Somersault Senton off the apron, superplex, top rope frankensteiner, powerbomb. They worked a tit for tat symmetry match, but Pillman was having trouble matching each of Liger's loves with his sloppy headscissors. Sometimes, Pillman was be too far pigeon-holed in that aerial light heavyweight role when he excelled at toe-to-toe fights with Flair and Windham. Pillman hits a tornado DDT and then negotiates a cradle to win. I thought Liger came off as the bigger star. Not only did he have the bigger moves, he was more expressive (he is masked!) and vocal with crowd (shouting "One more time!" for a top rope frankensteiner). Pillman looked like a guy who could not give a shit. His best move is his one stiff chop and splash to the floor. Still this match accomplished what it set out to do. It was totally different than the 1995 WWF product and heralded that American fans would have a choice in their wrestling products. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Pillman vs Dean Malenko - Nitro 01/22/96 Pillman is in full loose canon mode. I remember his stuff around this time where he was so focused on getting the gimmick over that the matches would suffer, but damn if this match was not a sweet little sprint. It has been his best TV match of the '95-'96 stretch in WCW. Early on, it is all about getting the Loose Canon over with the idiosyncratic behavior, jawing to the crowd and Malenko and inside comments "Im the real shooter because I got a Full Metal Jacket!" (a play off Malenko's ECW moniker). It does make Malenko out to be a bit of a chump because Pillman is controlling him at will. Pillman is actually pretty good on offense laying in some stiff chops and punches. Then he slaps the taste out of Malenko's mouth and Malenko is fuckin hot. The Iceman kicks some Pillman ass and Pillman sells and stooges for him. Malenko looked awesome in this match. Pillman had a great knocked out sell off a brainbuster. Pillman hits a tornado DDT and a huge chop. Malenko came back with a Tiger Driver for 2. Nitro really ushered in the emphasis on offense and getting in spots due to hyper-compression. Pillman uses the railing and some eyerakes to regain control. Pillman goes to the well once too often for a tornado DDT as Malenko throws him off. The Gutbuster get a big pop so Malenko follows it up with a drop toehold into a leg lace? Malenko sometimes just did not get it. Pillman unloads a massive forearm as Malenko falls his foot gets caught in the ropes and is pinned. The one problem is that Pillman fell off the apron and thus the ref plainly saw Malenko tied up. Ugh. Botched finish aside this was a fun Nitro sprint that was able to get over Pillman's character and showcase some great action. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Pillman vs Eddie Guerrero - Clash of the Champions XXXII Tony: "Given the actions that just transpired, I think it is safe to say you want Eddie to win." Bobby: "Oh no! I still like Pillman's style. Just keep him away from me." Classic Heenan. This match is infamous for adding the cult status of Pillman's Loose Canon gimmick. During one of his strolls around the outside, he decided to try to take off Heenan's jacket. Heenan, with a very fragile neck, was unnerved and explicitly said on air "What the fuck are you doing?" He composed himself and continued to be a proponent of Pillman. What is interesting is that before Pillman did that to Heenan, he kinda shoved Tony in the head. That sort of freaked the Brain out as he stated "Your head whipped back and forth" in a nervous tone. That comment could have been subtle foreshadowing. Was Brain in on the deal? The match was short and more focused on getting Pillman over as a character. I liked Eddie not backing down from Pillman's four fingers in his face. Pillman was a really effective heel. He cheats, cowers, and is proud of his Four Horsemen status. I don't know if everybody has to go as far as Pillman would with the cheating, but I would like some modern heels to actual be heels in the ring. An eyerake never hurt anyone. Eddie had some cool offense to pop the crowd like a tilt-a-whirl backbreaker or the tornado DDT. Also, he got his receipt for a Pillman slap with a paintbrush of his own. I liked how Guerrero and Malenko did not back down from Pillman and each had their own spots. They did not have feel like generic faces, but wrestlers contributing to a match. After a double leg takedown with the feet on the ropes did not work, Pillman hit a nice cross body and grabbed the tights for the win. You could only wish that there was no accident and that Pillman could have gotten 20 minutes with these guys because he was such an excellent heel. He was combining the heel tactics from his mentors, Flair & AA, with maniacal tendencies that created a unique blend of heel hitherto unexplored. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Brian Pillman & Arn Anderson vs Kevin Sullivan & Hugh Morrus - Nitro 2/5/96 The Dungeon of Doom & Four Horsemen had a loose alliance to destroy Hulk Hogan & Macho Man, but due to Pillman's shenanigans and seemingly his lack of respect for the Taskmaster there was a falling out between the two stables. The previous week on Nitro, AA was ready to dispense some tough love onto Pillman using a belt, but Sullivan & Morrus hijacked the segment and beat up the Horsemen. Sullivan whipped Pillman like the dog he is (love that phrase) to set up their infamous SuperBrawl Respect Strap match. The Horsemen ran them off and challenged them so we ended up with this match. I actually really liked WCW's booking at this time. I think this is the good version of shades of grey booking. You have Jimmy Hart managing Flair, Sullivan and Luger. However, Luger and Sting are pals and Flair's best friend Anderson is having issues with Sullivan. It is interesting and complex for wrestling booking. The Dungeon of Doom are de facto faces because Pillman is working his darndest to get himself over as an ultra-heel and Bischoff is pushing him hard on commentary as absolutely looney tunes. They feed Morrus some basic press slams. Pillman does his blind kick and AA takes over with a spinebuster. Things get really good when Sullivan and Pillman throw hands. They try to get it over as a shoot. The crowd comes alive. Sullivan hits his Tree of Woe. AA/Taskmaster pair off to outside and a mystery man hits AA with a broom. Was that ever revealed? Pillman takes Morrus' moonsault (his only move) and then gets whipped with the belt before escaping. It was a pretty boring match until the worked shoot between Sullivan and Pillman. It was a good angle to get heat on the "Respect" strap match for SuperBrawl. You really felt like Pillman was becoming a big deal in WCW. However, this would be Pillman's last week in WCW.

I gotta know, Brick, it is you and long-time forum poster, jdw in a flame-war. Who is calling this thing? Are you calling it as you go? Is it 50-50? God, I love Austin. :D I don't know what the straw was that broke the camel's back, but it is a damn shame. I enjoyed doing a podcast with Brick the one time I did. I hope all is well with him. When I was thinking about what I was thankful for, I gotta say this place ranks high up on the list. I love it here. Hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving! I am going to watch some wrestling now.

One of those people is not like the other. One of those people just does not belong. I am honored but I am a ways away from becoming that level of wrestling analyst. After calling me out a couple times, Matt, about the Colossal Connection matches, they are the best babyface Demolition matches because Eadie respects Andre enough to sell for him like a face in peril. Still no face Demolition matches come close to how good heel Demolition could be against the Rockers, Bulldogs and Hart Foundation. Do you agree that heel Demolition >>> babyface Demolition? To me it is not even close, but I would like to hear your thoughts on that. Probably best if you put it in the Demolition thread.

The problem with a WON-style HOF from my vantage is that the tag divisions were not used very effectively as box office draws in North America, but rather as springboards to singles success. Obviously there were tag territories like Mid-Atlantic in the 70s and it feels like the AWA was kind of a tag territory in the 70s, but for tag teams that I am familiar with and can watch I don't feel like I apply the same criteria to tag teams. Tag team gold is just not the end-goal in the post-Hogan world. It is just one of the stepping stones. Yes, most of this preface stems from the fact that I think Rockers are one of the best tag teams of all time and think they belong in the tag HOF, but cant justify it from a WON criteria point of view. On The Rockers, from what I have gleaned from the other threads on HOF and the Wrestling Culture podcasts on the WON HOF, I agree they should probably not go in because they do not have a money feud. They have a great blood feud with Rose & Somers, but no money feud. McMahon used them specifically as a midcard act to energize the crowd and to deliver great athletic matches to the fans. Just like any company, everyone needs to perform their role in order to make sure the company worked smoothly. The Rockers may have not been moving the needle at box office, but I have watched enough matches to know they were over like rover. I would still contend they are a Top 5 North American team of all time based off excellent work in a variety of matches that all feel very different from each other. The Rockers are truly amazing for excelling at a breadth of styles. I am going to write up the big review when real life stops interfering. I agree that they probably should not go into a WON-style HOF. Dylan, mind elaborating on why MNM would be a better overall act instead of the Rockers. They were pushed as the No.1 team on Smackdown and I remember some good matches with Hardys. Being the No. 1 team on Smackdown is pretty much the No. 1 team in the AWA in '86. Then add that the Rockers had 4 more years of kick ass matches. I don't even see how this is close. It is not like MNM was ever box office. British Bulldogs weirdly enough do have a better case than the Rockers in my mind because they are very influential. The WWE style feels very close to the style that the style the Bulldogs worked. Benoit modeled himself after Dynamite and Benoit had a massive impact on the workrate of the business. His style emphasized offense over selling, which is what we see on the Indies and how crowds react to WWE matches. It is all about offense. Demolition are mortal locks in my mind. From Wrestlemania IV-Summerslam '90, they ruled the WWF tag division at the height of the tag division's importance in that promotion. They did as both babyfaces and heels. They wrestled some great matches and were the actual box office draws of that tag division. You cant have a Tag Team Hall of Fame without Demolition. Hart Foundation is a no way for me. I would put the Bulldogs and the Rockers way ahead. Cold, mechanical work coupled with an almost non-existent 1988 & 1989 pretty much renders unfit. From there, the 1990 title run was a lameduck reign to get Bret even further over for his singles run. The 1987 run was just the Bulldogs feud and that felt like the Bulldogs were more the stars than the Hart Foundation.

So Im a little tardy to the party, but I thought I throw out my live thoughts. It was fuckin' cold that night! My Dad was dragging his feet saying he rather watched the Pats/Broncos, but ended up having fun. I thought the Garden was like 80% full with all the empty seats being around the hard camera. The balconies were pretty packed. The Miz/Kofi was just there. I understood the match they were going for, but I have seen so many people do tit for tat matches better than that. Zeb has gotten way better now that he is a bit more of a clown. At the beginning with the Del Rio/Swagger feud, he was a snoozefest. Now as a cranky old man, he is much better. I loved the opener and I would probably give it match of the night honors. Goldust was over like rover. We were chanting "We Want Goldust" at the outstt and "Goldust" once he got in. The eliminations were flawlessly booked. Ambrose got eliminated because he is over-aggressive and has a temper. Swagger's elimination was excellent babyface shine work that put over Rey especially. Cesaro made Cesaro look like a hot dog. He was focused too much on impressing us fans rather than winning a match and it cost him. The WWE has been surprisingly adept at booking heels against the odds and still making the match work. Reigns was of course the bigger winner of the match, but I thought this was some of Rollins best work. I like the curb stomp finish for him, but I would have liked to seen the flying knee, but I guess Daniel Bryan is using that now. My brother and Dad took a break for the Big E & Curtis Axel match. Then they gave me the phone call of a lifetime: Bob Backlund was right next to them!!! O FUCK YEAH! I raced up there and they said $40 for a picture. I didn't have any money, so I said fuck it and went to talk to him anyways. I am a tall dude, but Backlund is a big man still to this say. His handshake is a like a vise-grip, but he still complimented me on mine. (Dont like to toot my own horn, but I do work out my forearms for tennis TOOT! TOOT! Thanks for noticing Bob). Then I try to launch in about how awesome his matches with Patera, Valentine and Inoki were. Instead, he just wanted to talk about how he could still go in the ring. So what developed was this weird conversation where I was trying to ask him questions like what it was like to work with these guys and he would ignore me just talk about how we could kick everyone's ass today. I gave up and told him of course you could best headlock ever. Then I pantomimed how he would do a headlock. He finally smiled and said thats how to headlock. I wished him luck in getting back into the ring and that was a fan for life. He told me to stay in school. Well I finished that, but I am still paying back Michigan so I guess that still counts. O what a night! Something involving women happened, but who gives a fuck I just met Bob Backlund! I am a huge Ryback mark and I love Mark Henry. We popped huge for the entrance. The match was underwhelming and disappointing. The fans were getting restless. I know most people hear where down on the Cena/Del Rio match because it is lacked sizzle and that Del Rio is fucked as a character and I agree. However, this was the most fun match of the night for me. There was a 6 year old kid who is the greatest wrestling fan ever. I would watch the match and then watch his reaction it elevated the match. Eventually him and I against all the Cena haters in our section. It made for the most heated match from our perspective. I would not say this was molten heat, but it was definitely the hottest match of the night. Cena doing his Backlund tribute on the cross-armbreaker had me popping like mad and I rallied all the Cena supporters at that time. I just thought that was a great moment. I thought it was a very good Cena match who just has his extended comeback down at this point. It is my choice for second best match of the night. Punk/Bryan vs Wyatts was a weird match. It felt like Boston wanted to blow the roof off the place for Bryan & Punk but never got there. We seemed out of sync with the flow of the match. I like Harper a lot. He is up there with Reigns and Ryback as my favorite hosses. Punk was boring as fuck. Bryan was his entertaining himself. When people starting chanting "This is awesome", my Dad goes "What the fuck are these guys watching? Where was that chant for the last match?". My brother succinctly responded "Smart marks suck." It was a totally forgettable match. Orton vs Big Show was first met by silence and then mocked. They tried chanting a "This Match Sucks!" in our section which I dont know if that came across on TV. I didnt think it was a horrible match. I thought they wrestled a smart match, but not one that plays well with modern audience. Plus they blew the top ropehanging DDT, which never helps. It is a match that I would rate as average than a total turd, but hey average don't cut it on a PPV main event. They should have known better. Cena vs Orton seems dumb to me. It is played out. The Authority vs Internet Darlings makes way more sense. Let Cena fight some upper midcard heels like the Shield and the Wyatts while Orton faces Punk and Bryan. All in all, I had a fun night with my Dad and brother. I saw two pretty good matches and met BOB FUCKIN BACKLUND~! I'm a happy camper.

I MET BOB BACKLUND TONIGHT!!!!!! TONIGHT WAS SO FUCKIN BITCHIN!

My excitement for Survivor Series peaked when I first found out it was in Boston. I was really looking forward to the direction of the company post-Summerslam. However, in November I have found the storyline direction to be lackluster to say the least. I feel like all the heat from Summerslam and September has dissipated. First, Boston needs to bring our A-game to match that raucous Nashville crowd. I have not heard a crowd so pro-babyface in forever. They were even doing Uso callback chant. I was digging it. I think Boston crowds are in the top 5 WWE crowds and we definitely be there in force. Like I said in a post in the Current WWE thread, if I was not going to this event I would be perfectly fine with Randy Orton vs Big Show. Even though, the money is clearly in Big Show vs Triple H given the crowd reactions for their confrontations. I would still say this is a perfectly logical progression for the story of Big Show. In addition, if Orton loses, it could set up for a new heel ace or Triple H to come back under the guise "If you want a job done, you got to do it yourself." or if he wins, he gets a much needed win to further consolidate his position before dropping the belt to Punk or Bryan. Still, Orton vs. Big Show reeks of 2010 mid-card and I am just not terribly interested in this match-up. As much as I like Harper, the Wyatts do Jimbo-Diddly-Squat for me. I am excited for the match, but in a "This will be a great RAW main event" way not in a "PPV match" way. I think it is smart to pair the smark darling together as they have been/will be over like rover. It should be a good popcorn match. Cena/Del Rio got the much needed shot in the arm after Del Rio's beatdown two weeks ago. I think this will give them a good psychological base point to build off and it is my prediction for match of the night. The match I am most excited for is the Elimination match with Rhodes Family/Usos/Rey vs Real Americans/The Shield. I pretty much dig all 10 men in this match and I think it has a real shot of being match of the night on a shallow card. The Shield has been my favorite gimmick over the past year and I am pumped to see Cesaro for the first time since I saw him face Tyler Black at an ROH show in Detroit. No Ryback and Dolph Ziggler makes me a sad Superstar Sleeze. I really liked Ziggler's effort in the Sandow match and thought that was one of the best finishes they have had in a while in a gimmick match. Ryback is just a beast. At least, Roman Reigns is on the card. I love live wrestling and I will be hanging out with my Dad and my brother so it will be tons of fun. Realistically this is not one of their best cards on papers, but that's why they play the game.

Thanks for inviting me onto the show and I am sorry I could not make it. I shouldn't have to work nights for a while so let me when the next one is. You guys were hilarious and insightful as always. To the point about gauntlet style handicap matches, they were common in the 20s & 30s (probably earlier too) to match the world champions (Lewis, Stetcher, etc...) against up and comers (Londos and such) for them to prove their mettle and cheat gamblers out of money. Another version of this, which happens from time to time still, is set a time limit that the challenger would have to compete with the champion. Since wrestling used to be gambled on, they could book the non-obvious finish in these gimmick matches, which allowed them to cheat out all the gamblers of their money and build a star in the process. My reference for all this is Steve Yohe's excellent Ed "Strangler" Lewis biography, which can be found at Hisa's titles website, wrestling-titles.com. I agree with Pete's ranking of the Von Erich brothers. I went through a phase where I could not get enough Kevin Von Erich. He was such a friggin dynamo in there. I remember I watched a couple of his St. Louis matches against Patera and Murdoch (though Kerry may have been in one) and enjoyed the Von Erichs in St. Louis. Kerry at times was a better version of Lex Luger. As of now, I have Luger ahead of KVE, but that could change when I watch more Kerry, It is too bad we don't have the Kiel stuff because all of this stuff is really just a tease.