Jetlag

I haven't dived to deep into him, so I mainly want OJ's opinion here. I was surprised to learn he has quite a bit of footage on tape, so I want to know if he's a contender. He has a really strong rep especially with the folks who used to watch him in germany but the footage isn't there. I really love him vs. Czeslaw and based on that I could see putting him above someone like Pete Roberts.

I think Jones is a wrestling genius. It baffles me that Dylan mentions his lack of subtitles, nuances and tactical approaches, because that seems to be his trump card for me. He's being touted as a forebear to the Regals and Finlays but those guys are far more erratic. Jones is a stone faced technician and doesn't do any of that posturing or grimacing at all. I may be seriously overinterpreting things but the way he carries himself, how he will dissect a body part or calmly set up a move off of the top and how he excels both at fighting heavyweights and lighter types in methodical/fast paced bouts makes me think of him as "the man" of british wrestling akin to a Misawa type. When he gets fired up at a heel its barely a change from his usual demeanour and yet he oozes intensity. I would add him vs. Alan Woods to the list of recommended matches. Not a perfect bout, but I love it for Woods' performance and how Jones fuels his mania. Jones also shows some real commitment there taking reckless bumps to the floor. The match also has some nice symmetries for you psyche-fans to spot. Jones/Rudge is epic. And Jones does so much in it. One thing I love about him is that he knows exactly how much offense to give and take, when to hit his spots etc. A 30 minute technical match is a perfect example of this, but he never loses his sight even in these rippingly fast paced go here-go there lightweight style bouts. I guess one criticism towards him is that he doesn't jump out the way some of the flashier technicians or outrageous characters of the era will do. On the other hand, he does enough nifty stuff like bust out a Santo-style tope or just slapping his man square in the face in the first round. Point is the main thing that keeps me glued to watching him wrestle is the stuff described above. Nuances and subtitles. Again maybe I'm just ranting, but in my eyes Jones beats the shit out of a loooooot of other guys nominated in this.

Nominating Caswell Martin, again via. OJ's euro thread.

Faulkner is one of those ultra-talented, slightly weird brit dudes you just come across. When he's fired up and pissed-off, he's blowaway great. What's interesting about him is that he was also able to do super fast paced, 70s-lightweight-workrate stuff. Even more notable is that unlike many other brit workers he has some tag bouts worth checking out, being in a popular team with his brother Bert Royal. I remember having problems with his more cliche doosie-doo "smiley technical brit comedy" stuff, but he's def. a guy I want to go back and study in detail before I complete my Top 100.

Really? I've never heard many positive words for him even from DG/Evolve fans. In fact the general opinion on him seemed to be that he was "Gabe's project" and not good enough to be poster boy. He has also worked several indies and never really set the world ablaze.

I think not being on the same level as the best rudos ever isn't a big knock against someone. It really may be your expectations. I'm not very familiar with Panther's rudo work but I really enjoyed his amusing bumping and stooging while working in Hamada's UWF. As far as placing Panther goes, he'll be about in my Top 20-30. He's had a loaded career with great mat performances, quality singles matches and that really great late career feud with Casas. And he's still been damn good in the last couple years. I guess you could make the argument that he's a bit of a one trick pony but when your trick is hitting the mat hard and being as awesome as he is I simply don't care.

I watched the recommended Austin matches that I wasn't familiar with. I think the problem for me is that Austin's image has been built up as this mythical asskicker, almost like a Stan Hansen or Vader type slotted into crazy overbooked matches. His 2001 run matches that image, as he is awesome as a psychopath there. The Attitude Era stuff shows him not quite as that asskicker, but rather as a pretty smart worker, which is a big plus. A negative is that the matches don't feel very violent even when Mick Foley is there killing himself. Sometimes the smoke and mirrors (as in the matches with Rock) gets a little overbearing. Overall I'd say the stuff is underwhelming but still ends up being a feather in his cap, if that makes sense.

Pirata Morgan: There's also a Complete & Accurate for Pirata here: http://segundacaida.blogspot.de/search?q=Pirata+Morgan Blue Panther:

I'm not really seeing that bit about Hash being a specialist. The guy has a huge variety of great matches under his belt, including several matches built around all the things you mention about Hase (well, except maybe for bumping and stooging, but doing something like that simply didn't fit his role). Including matches against other heavyweights, juniorweights, martial artists, guys from other promotions, jobbers, US style workers, etc. And he does those things as good as anyone I've seen. I could see it if you said Hase is a superworker due to being closer to an US guy, but that raises the question can only US style guys (or guys who are close to it) be superworkers?

I'm a little puzzled by Hase getting praised as a superworker. He's clearly the most talented NJ heavy after Hashimoto, but Hash will be in my Top 10-20, while Hase right now isn't a lock for the list at all. He has strong positives: quality amateur style matwork, great at bomb throwing, and knows how to create drama. Problems for him are the chunks missing from his career due to him being exiled from NJ and being a part timer later on. In the 2000s he is far overshadowed by other guys even in post-split All Japan. What is most puzzling about him is that he clearly understands wrestling very well as evidenced in his selling and expressiveness, but also sometimes mixes these Kurt Angle-ish tendencies into matches (throwing a dozen Uranages in a row, awkward pacing etc). I can only watch so many matches that build from indian deathlocks to Uranages and nearfalls before it gets old. His AJPW work, very good Akiyama match aside, was very underwhelming. His match vs. Kobashi wouldn't even make my Top 30 for 1997 and him vs. Misawa in 2000 is kind of painful. His best match for me is against Hashimoto and the gap between that match and the rest of his work is nearly as big as the gap between him and Hash.

He looks good in the little footage we have, but ultimately he's a guy who's legendary for his influence and vision rather than legendary matches. If you want to put him on your list based on him being a fun old man technician there's a lot of competition for him.

Szakacs is amazing. I don't think there's anybody who does the "crazy british hold escapes" better. Maybe it's because he's a heavyweight, but the way he moves is really fascinating to watch. The KO chop finisher is brilliant too and makes for really interesting bouts. The guy combines intensity and technical brilliance like the best of the british wrestlers. Also has that Volk Han-like charisma that only a former Hungarian army officer/refugee could have. The problem? He has about 10 matches on tape. But since Alan Sarjeant has a thread too, the name Tibor Szakacs deserves to be known. Recommended matches: vs. Big Bruno Elrington vs. Jack Fallon vs. Prince Kumali

Roach not being talked up much is a bit of a mystery to me. A badass giant with a black belt in judo, who wasn't afraid to rip guys heads off with forearms or just dump them hard in the middle of the ring. And it's surprising how well he works as a TV star in restrained british style bouts when you expect this guy to show up in NJPW and battle Hashimoto. I find it really amazing that I watch his matches to see him eventually knock the shit out of people, but then end up staying for the more technical stuff. I really love his graceful throws and surprisingly agile movements when locking in holds. Due to him being Roach, every match becomes interesting simply because he has it all over his opponent's in size and skills. Being quite a household name, he also has many taped matches including some brawls in germany (which I enjoyed more than OJ), so unlike some other british guys footage is not an issue with him. Also, I have soft spot for the guy because watching him as an unstoppable machine in Never say Never again is one of my earliest childhood memories. Recommended matches: Pete Roberts vs. Pat Roach (2/13/80) Pat Roach vs. Gil Singh (4/21/80) Pat Roach vs. Tom Tyrone (10/11/83)

Poor Pete Roberts. I don't think I've seen anyone really praise this guy except for OJ and Regal. Doesn't look like much, not flashy at all, but he has a real knack for slick, graceful technical wrestling (especially dig his takedowns) and creating intensity within the span of a few rounds wrestling session on TV. It's not just that he can throw a european uppercut, but really work escalation into his matches, even when they technically remain fairly harmless. For example, in one of his bouts vs. Pat Roach, he does this awesome half-boxer/half-Fujiwara-like ring positioning about to lure Roach into the corner and then kick the shit out of him. His big drawing card is his consistency as he has shown up on british TV for many years and never stopped being awesome even as british TV wrestling was on it's last legs. Apparently he has worked abroad aswell but somebody else will have to comment on that. Only seen him matching up really well with Fujinami in japan once. Regardless, give him a chance. Recommended matches: vs. Pat Roach vs. Wayne Bridges vs. Terry Rudge

He also did some really fun stuff in NOAH, working as a heel invader there.

Nominating: Tibor Szakacs, Pete Roberts & Pat Roach via. OJ's euro wrestling thread: http://z11.invisionfree.com/wrestling_ko/index.php?showtopic=2555&st=0

I like him and he's a guy with some worthwhiel matches under his belt but there's about a dozen other euro guys who deserve your attention more, and perhaps another dozen who deserve to be nominated just as much as him. Why bother with this guy when Franz van Buyten is right there? EDIT: Actually I just remembered all the Van Buyten matches I uploaded to YouTube have been deleted, so I guess he's not there actually.

Is it really? A lot of old school workers have these abilities. In fact, the combination of these is almost a must have for anyone in order to get into my Top 100. I'd say that right now there are 70 workers locked for my list who all have what you describe here and then I've got another 50 workers battling for the last 30 spots who aren't much worse.. I mean, since you don't seem to be considering post-2000 workers at all, you obviously have a smaller pool of talent to choose from... and granted, I like Ted a lot, but this argument about Ted being a rare combo (a total package?) isn't going to make me rank him ahead of 20 other workers.

Isn't the whole "Showstopper" gimmick centered around him being a superworker? The most obvious example would be that street fight with Jericho. They both come out in street fight gear, trying to look really tough and all that, then trade lousy punches. Their WM match felt like a pretty dire forced epic to me aswell. He also loved participating in convoluted matches with Triple H. Perhaps it is also lack of understanding his physical limitations (believability) and bad execution, for example when he works "seasoned veteran controlling a stronger, young opponent" against Cena and doesn't come across that well doing it. The thing is that watching post comeback Shawn I often feel that it's clear he still knows what he's doing, but doesn't have the physical tools/awareness to put it together into actively good matches. Slightly adjusting his style could've helped.

Post comeback Shawn is a pretty good example of someone who's not the all-capable superworker he thinks he is (similiar to Triple H) and was unable to adapt properly to age. Pre-comeback Shawn really liked to do that silly over the top bumping shit that rarely made his opponent look good and also fucked himself up good. Anyways I really can't stand post comeback Shawn (45 minute bout with Cena aside, through some miracle) and his pre-injurystuff, while often solid and sometimes great, is still below someone like Bret Hart. No chance.

I absolutely hate Minoru Tanaka. Absolutely one of the worst guys in the old BattlARTS stuff. Not that his junior shit is bad, but as a shootstylist he is insanely dull. Interesting moveset, but mostly he is just plain uninteresting with his silky soft kicks and light matwork.

I can't find Jaguar Yokota vs. Pantera Surena online anymore. Anybody still have it? FLIK? Sadly flik.theditch.biz seems to be gone.

I'm sure he has a hundred good matches on tape if you go through Cubsfan's channels. And he has that fucking amazing 2010 brawl against... I think it was Demus? That match had blood and flying and reckless punches and remains one of the better singles matches of the decade, no kidding. Pretty awesome talent and an ideal example of someone who doesn't need to be a star to be awesome all around.

Great upload, Bob Alpra deserves a medal. Hoffman wrestles pretty much exactly like he does in AJPW, even doing the same spots. That deadlift Fallaway Slam into a seamless pin was insane. I think Dave Taylor stole that?

For my money Kellett is an amazing character and a guy you have to see once in your lifetime but you have be pretty into that showman style of wrestling to put him anywhere near a Top 100. He could put on a pretty brutal match at times, picture 2000s Kikuchi except without the serious matches on tape. He has about as much of a case as Mitsuo Momota.