DMJ

Not a team, but I love the name: The Alliance To End Hulkamania. It just sounded so official, like, you could imagine them getting together, electing a treasurer, having someone keep minutes, maybe even hosting a fundraiser...Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I think WCW dropped by the ball by not having hour-long episodes devoted to covering their meetings C-SPAN style.

Just read that Lucha Underground might get some sort of deal with Hulu. If that's the case, I think I'll be one step closer to cutting the cable cord. I already have Netflix, Amazon Prime, WWE Network, and HBO GO through my cable, but I think it'd be cheaper for me at this point to cut cable entirely, get Hulu and then see how much HBO NOW goes for.

Just saw this match for the first time. I really liked their match from a month or two earlier (Spring Stampede?), but I wasn't sure what I'd get with this - Savage is one of those guys that I'm a mark for, but will readily admit, his resume is far from infallible. I get the criticisms detailed above, but, man, I feel like this one works because it is just flat-out fun. Page sneak attacking Savage and going for the Diamond Cutter within the first 30 seconds? Savage destroying referees and a camera man? Dusty Rhodes commentary when they end up in the "VIP section"? Piledrivers galore, Macho attacking Page's injured ribs, all sorts of weapon shots and even an Outsider's Edge thrown in. When this match was over, I was ready to watch 10 more minutes of it. I wouldn't call it a masterpeice, but I have no problem calling it a 4-star match based on just how entertaining it was.

I'm with C.S - I'm not sure you can say "Oh, WCW wasted Liz" or "They ruined her gimmick" or anything when, by the time Macho got to WCW, his act wasn't exactly fresh, with or without Elizabeth. They did exactly what they could've done and should've done when they signed her, no more, no less. As beautiful as Elizabeth was, as tremendous as her chemistry with Macho was, it's not like she's a top 5 manager ever. I liked the way she turned on Savage in his feud with Flair in 95', but that was largely due to the tie-in with WM8, not because Elizabeth managing Flair was going to create some legendary promos. She was great arm candy, but she wasn't a "face version" of a Sensational Sherri, capable of getting herself or other talents over when not directly linked to Savage. I like Liz's role in the DDP/Savage feud, for another example, but that's probably because I really like that feud - not because I think Liz or Kimberly were particularly good in it.

Its not nerdy but I enjoy Austin's podcast for his discussion of craft beers and, on a recent episode, the Netflix show Making A Murderer. Like, as the "Bionic Redneck," you'd expect him to spend the opening of his podcast talking about football or NASCAR or hot chicks or something, but instead, he's more likely to share his thoughts on what IPA he's drinking and why Leonardi Dicaprio is a "bad ass" actor. Austin's awesomeness seemingly has no bounds - he really seems like a guy who you could bring to a big family wedding and, even if he wasn't a world famous personality, he would still be the guy everyone talked about like "Oh, did you meet that Steve guy? He was great."

^ Was gonna ask the same question. I know I could ostensibly look it up, but could anyone clarify which are available on a Roku or other device?

The Miz

Posted my full review on my blog. Was not a fan of the show. Too many "head-scratching" booking decisions. Namely: 1. No Lesnar/Ambrose confrontation. No Owens/Zayn segment, no HHH/Reigns segment, and no AJ/Styles segment makes sense because one half of each feud was on the other loop or recuperating from injury, but Lesnar and Ambrose were in the building. Why not at least have them brush by each other backstage? Or maybe have Ambrose and Heyman brush by each other? Or here's an idea - have HHH and Heyman or HHH and Lesnar brush by each other? Something, anything would've helped (and I'm not talking Rundgren albums). 2. Swagger/Jericho. You can argue that Swagger wasn't defending Canada, that the match was signed before Jericho bashed his home country, but this is pro-wrestling, a scripted reality where the writers/bookers have control over the universe they create. They had to know Jericho would get cheered in Toronto (or they should've) and if he was going to try to get heel heat, they had to (or should've) known that he was going to rely on insulting the crowd. Who should stand up for the crowd? Someone they like. Jack Swagger is not over, so, he was a bad call. How about sending R-Truth out waving a Canadian flag? How about sending out Neville, who at least is an "international" talent AND who has a moveset that lends itself to popping the crowd? 3. Booking Zayn's first spotlight match since his recovery against a stone-cold Stardust was also a misstep. You want Zayn to wrestle from underneath and get over as an underdog? How about booking him against a heel that the crowd doesn't like and who can dominate him but not look too bad in the loss. This is where (as much as I like him) Rusev or Del Rio could've been decent picks. Even a 3-on-1 situation against Slater and the Social Outcasts would've been better. I'm a Cody fan, but the Stardust character hasn't evolved at all and the crowd is less than interesting in it. Zayn had his work cut out for him to make this match good and, as much as it pains me to say it, he couldn't quite nudge it up high enough to even be average. 4. Back on Lesnar for a minute - I'd love to see a real Lesnar/Harper match and I'm not even opposed to a Wyatt/Lesnar match, but what we got was neither. It was a bait-and-switch move and that's rarely (never?) cool.

I think it's important to note too that the Ziggler Bandwagon is much smaller than it was at 6 months ago, let alone a year and a half/two years ago. Was it 2013 when Ziggler was getting cheered over ADR in their title feud? There was also Survivor Series 2014. Either could be seen as his peak popularity (and I might even say his "IWC peak" was the feud with Cena around Royal Rumble '13 (?). Just.a month ago, Ziggler got a mild-at-best response in his hometown - not exactly the sign of a guy that people are still behind. I don't think he's at Zach Ryder/Damien Sandow level of nobody caring about him anymore, but he's heading in that direction. It's not dissimilar to Ambrose. I think he was at his hottest around SummerSlam 2014 and it has just been a slow decline since. If Lesnar/Ambrose had been promoted in September 2014, I think it would've drawn huge interest, even from casuals as Lesnar was coming off the Cena squash and Ambrose was getting called "The Next Austin" (before all his in-ring flaws, inexperience, and bad scripts he was handed made that comparison laughable). In April 2016, the match is generating no buzz as far as I know.

Submitted my ballot. I, again, openly admit how limited my knowledge is of anything outside of WCW/WWE in the 90s and 00s and my list definitely reflects that. I do think it's a defendable ballot if you keep that in mind when/if you read it, but obviously, based on what I've read here about their work in the 70s/80s, I can totally understand why people would be appalled to read that Marc Mero/Ultimate Warrior/Sasha Banks ranked above Jim Duggan and Larry Zybysko. What I tried to do was really just stick to ranking wrestlers based on what I've seen - not on what I've read or heard. To me, doing that would be kind of dishonest and, to take a word from high school, acting like a "poser." Like, I know that prime Jerry Lawler was probably incredible, but the Lawler I know is the guy from WWF in the mid-90s and while I've enjoyed what I've seen, if you look at my sample size for a guy like Lawler and my sample size for a guy like Cena, it's a no brainer who I would personally rank higher based just on what I have personally seen. To beat a dead horse, if I was ranking the best 100 movies ever, I'd feel wrong putting Sunset Blvd. and The African Queen anywhere on my list as I've never seen them, while I'd probably have Raising Arizona, Rushmore, and Goodfellas in my top 20. I'm not excusing my ignorance as much as trying to own up to it.

Just watched it for the first time this morning. I agree that it doesn't stand as one of the best tag matches ever, but it certainly is better than average in every way. Hot crowd. Really good commentary out of Ventura and Schiavone. Oodles and oodles of "little things" that add up to tell a really deep story. For example, right from the start, you have Tully pulling Bret's leg when he makes a tag to Arn, allowing Double A to come in, grab an ankle, and then go up for a headlock, which Bret quickly reverses. The faces dominate, but it makes some sense because (a) Joey Marella is uber-suspicious of any of their tags (their reputation biting them in the ass) and, throughout the contest, the Hart Foundation bust out blatant heel spots - which, again, makes sense not only because, while they were faces, they'd still rely on successful tactics from their past, but also because they're essentially trying to outsmart the smartest, dirtiest team in wrestling. I do have a few criticisms. I wish Heenan was more involved, which would temper some of the Harts' trickery and make it more apparent that they're only doing it to keep things "fair." I also wish Anderson came off the top with some sort of weapon (even just a boot or something) for the finish because the Harts had so much momentum that an axehandle from the top isn't quite enough to make me think Bret would be out for a full count. Is it an all-time classic? I wouldn't put it up that high...but when I compare it to what else I've seen from this era, I can see why it's well-regarded. Unlike so many matches I've seen from this timespan, it's not slow, it's not just clubbing blows and stomps, and it's not just a shine-heat-comeback pattern. I can see people rating it somewhere between 3 and 4 stars, but not any higher.

Bossman is one where I had to stop and ask "He's not already in there?" Very worthy induction. I've also never heard anyone say a bad word about the guy in any of the hours and hours of podcasts/shoots I've listened to over the years.

I've read this thread and I'm 99% sure I know the answer to the question of whether or not I should submit a ballot, but, and I hate to be that guy, I must ask... Should you still submit a ballot if you haven't actually participated in any of the watchings and are completely lacking in any and all knowledge outside of mainstream US wrestling?

I like how instead of promoting stars of the future to their youngest demographic, they opted to promote 2 of their executives, 1 guy who is retired 362-364 nights a year, and a diva who I think I've seen on a milk carton more recently than I've seen on TV. Cena makes sense, but no Reigns? Is this part of the political hit?

Definitely. It's what they did in 2006 with Cena in Reigns' current position. Cena was just much better equipped and better established to handle the blowback. Plus, the company a decade ago at least had some strong heels being groomed for Cena to work with after the Triple H program was over. What would we even have in 2016? Reigns vs Owens? Reigns vs Jericho? I half bet they'd do Reigns vs Show or Kane. I'm not saying any of these guys have been built-up as well as Edge was in 06', but just looking at the heel side of things, you do have Owens, Rusev, Del Rio, Wyatt, and, based on last week, Ryback. Fortunately, none are even super necessary when you also have Rollins, Orton, and Cena coming back this spring/summer. Throw in a rematch with Triple H in May (maybe a 3-way with Dean?) and a WM31 rematch with Lesnar down the line... Are all these ideas fresh? Not exactly...but I count at least 3 real strong challengers (Brock, Cena, Rollins), 2-3 really passable Network Era challengers (Orton, HHH in a rematch, Ambrose), and at least 1-2 "It will take work, but they can get there" challengers in Owens and Rusev before the names Kane and Big Show will ever need to be uttered.

Can joining a website ruin a match for you? 2-3 years ago, I probably would've given this much a fair amount of praise. I mean, it has it all, right? Dramatic story, weapons, plenty of blood, a hot crowd...but after spending time around these parts, I feel like I've changed as a viewer and critic, especially when it comes to individual workers, such as Shawn Michaels. Now, I'm not going to bury this match as it is still a highly entertaining spectacle, the kind of bout that casual fans would likely call incredible - but it really only works if you're willing to turn your brain off. Like a Fast & Furious movie. This is not the first nor the last time an Unsanctioned Street Fight has been criticized for featuring the usual entrances with full ring music and a referee, but it does bear noting that Shawn Michaels at least comes out dressed for a street fight. Triple H does not. Shawn, despite nearly being killed a few weeks prior, starts the match by lazily resting on the top turnbuckle to, I guess, re-establish that he's a bit of a "silly goose"? Things improve dramatically when the action starts, especially when Triple H takes control and goes after Michaels' back. Its a logical, super heelish thing to do and the crowd gets behind Shawn even more. ...but things fall of the rails once Shawn kips up. I'm not against him kipping up, but could he at least put his hand on his lower back after doing it to sell the 2 backbreakers, abdominal stretch, and 2 sidewalk slams onto a steel chair that HHH hit him with it? The no-selling continues for the rest of the match as Shawn, at various points, dances, prances, and even gives an "I'm crazy!" gesture to drive home the point that this match isn't about winning and losing, its about Shawn showing that he can take all the crazy bumps he took 4 years earlier. This is a total 1-man show, maybe the most Shawn Michaelsest of Shawn Michaels matches ever. Finally, the post-match. Remember how I said Shawn didn't sell anything after the kip-up? I was wrong. If it is possible to oversell a sledgehammer shot, Shawn does it here, inexplicably falling into a coma after taking two shots from Triple H's weapon of choice. Again, maybe it wouldn't come off as bad if Shawn wasn't, moments earlier, full of life and showing no ill effects from any of the multitude of weapon shots he had been hit with in the previous 20+ minutes. The best way to describe Shawn's performance is "bungee cord-esque" as he bounces from complete, perfect, superman health to ready-for-the-crematorium dead at least 3-4 times capped off by him getting carried off on a stretcher in one of the most overdramatic finales I can remember, obviously trying to "steal the show" from the main event.

I'm guessing Vince tells Taker that if he loses, he must retire. This will give Taker the incentive to win *and* potentially still make sense if they find their way into having Cena replace Shane.

Yeah, I was at Fastlane and they promoted a SmackDown taping in September. AJ Styles was featured prominently, right alongside Reigns, Ambrose, and Wyatt in the video promo. To me, considering he's only been in the company for a month and they've already edited him into promotional materials says a lot. People can talk it away like "They just put anyone in those things," but the fact is, someone designs promo packages and is given marching orders as to who should be put in and who should not. Those marching orders included "feature AJ Styles," not "feature Cesaro," not "feature Kalisto," not "feature the Usos," not "feature Ziggler." AJ will get an opportunity, I think, especially if they eventually do concede that Reigns is a heel in the summer/fall. Styles as the "savior" against Reigns isn't completely out of the question, though, if they do go that course, I'd be surprised if Rollins isn't shoe-horned into that role.

Let's not forget that as much as wrestling purists may despise Shane for being booked as a legit threat to trained wrestlers like Test and Kurt Angle among others, a huge portion of the older audience thought he was a "good worker" because he was willing to take stunt bumps, get tossed on his neck a bunch, and do a Van Terminator. I know that, growing up, I thought he was awesome.

Seems like a silly induction to me. Calling him "one of the 5-10 most over guys of the Attitude Era" is a bit of a stretch too. Sable, Goldust, Shamrock, the Hardys, Christian, and Mark Henry aren't in the Hall yet either and were definitely bigger stars in that same 98'-00' era. On the other hand, I expect them to play up the Papa Shango stuff big time because the one thing the aforementioned talents *don't* have that Charles Wright does is a resume that dates back to the early 90s. When you look at things that way, and you run down the rest of the roster in 92'-95', he's not the absolute worst choice.

I double-checked and at the 2014 TLC PPV (the last PPV in Cleveland), Ziggler was announced as coming from Cleveland. He got a massive response for his entrance that made last night's very modest reception even more glaring in comparison.

Went to the show last night, so here's a "live report"... * Packed house. Not a legit sell-out, but the majority of quality seats were filled up. Lots of New Day chants before and after the show, which is really something considering that the last show I went to (MITB in Columbus last July, I think) had the same chants going on. New Day have been over for a long, long time. * Surprised so many people on this board enjoyed the divas tag match. Tamina looked awful out there, I thought. Fans definitely wanted to see Sasha turn on Becky. * Ziggler was announced from Hollywood, FL, which confused just about everyone. Is he just a heel now or what? Not getting announced from Cleveland (actual birthplace) seemed like a purposeful attempt to make sure he did not get as much crowd support as he usually gets…or Lillian screwed it up. Either way, crowd seemed 60-40 in favor of Dolph, but there were sizable Kevin Owens chants. * AJ/Jericho got a half-hearted "This is Awesome" chant but lacked a real story. The crowd desperately wanted to love this match, but it was just good-not-great. Also, as over as AJ was/is, there were just as many Y2J fans. Maybe it came across better on TV... * During the 6-man, it seemed like a quarter of the audience went to the bathroom, to the smoking patio, to get food, or to buy souvenirs. * Lots of confusion about why Truth/Axel happened. Nobody saw it coming or enjoyed it. * Edge & Christian and New Day had a great segment that crowd was enjoying until League of Nations showed up. It also seemed to end awkwardly with E & C and New Day being buddy-buddy after just hurling insults at each other moments before. After the League showed up, I think there was a feeling that some baby faces were going to come and help E & C clean house, but that never materialized. * Brie Bella gave Tamina a run for sloppiest in-ring performer of the night. Flair got lots of Woos, but crowd was pretty much dead for the actual bout. * Crowd woke up big time for main event - especially for Lesnar and Ambrose. I was genuinely surprised as to how loud the boos were for Reigns as Cleveland is generally not a "smart" town, usually giving Cena huge ovations with very little mixed reaction. I feel like last time WWE was in town, Reigns got plenty of cheers…but on this night, he was just positioned poorly against Ambrose (somewhat of a local guy as he's from Cincinatti) and Brock Lesnar (the absolute biggest star on the active roster). I'm not sure how it came across on TV, but Triple H's arrival got a mixed reaction of some cheers and some boos - but the boos weren't pro-Reigns as much as "This shit sucks" boos. I was one of those people that felt like Reigns was only getting jeered in places like Chicago and NY and that he was over like gangbusters in the midwest and elsewhere and that, essentially, the WWE just needed to ride things out, but after last night, I'm not sure I feel that way anymore. Last night's crowd was full of little kids, full of families, full of casual fans and die-hards and while Reigns had his supporters, Ambrose and Lesnar had more of them. It'll be interesting to see what they do with Reigns post-Mania because feuds with Ambrose, Lesnar, or a returning Cena or Rollins are only going to get him booed more. Hell, I'm not sure Owens wouldn't get 50% crowd support against him at this point. Leaving the show, I don't think people were happy (shades of last year's TLC show). I think there was an expectation that there was going to be some sort of Mania build and there wasn't. I think everyone knew that Reigns would win, but didn't want to see it happen. I think there were fans expecting Taker, Cena, or Bryan to be there. I think there were fans, like myself, expecting The Miz to come out because it was his hometown and he was heavily involved in the AJ/Y2J feud. I think certain fans were surprised at how little Bray Wyatt did as most expected him to be involved in the main event. The inclusion of the Social Outcasts match made the show seem thrown together and not like an important special event. The match order was whack - the fans I talked to agreed that ADR/Kalisto, a US Title Match, deserved to be on the show over the 6-man or the Truth/Axel match or even the divas tag. There were just a lot of bad tastes left in people's mouths as they exited the show, many openly complaining about it.

Pretty psyched for tonight's show, largely because I'm going with a bunch of buddies coming in from Columbus. I think the hanging out/pre- and post-show conversations will be light years funner than the actual event, but when is that not the case when you're with friends? Back on topic - as much as some have been talking about how lame this show is going to be, I still think I'm getting my money's worth (especially compared to WrestleMania, which is way more pricey and currently seems like its going to be a 4-hour death march headlined by a Triple H "epic"). I think tonight's main event will deliver. I loved the Lesnar/Cena/Rollins Triple Threat from last year's Rumble and while I don't expect this match to meet that bar, I still expect that we get a worthwhile effort. I also think the crowd will be hot for this. I predict involvement from the Wyatts to take out Lesnar (though I don't want it) and chicanery from Triple H in some form or fashion because, if Lesnar gets taken out, the crowd will be 100% behind Ambrose...and in order to keep the heat off Reigns, you have to think they'll need to input Trips to get the crowd to boo the bad guy and not the "next Cena." Elsewhere on the card, we get New Day in a segment with Edge and Christian. I'm guessing this is to set-up a TLC bout for Mania between New Day, the Dudleys, and Usos? I'm a Christian fan and find New Day entertaining, so, personally, I prefer this segment to a recycled New Day match. AJ/Jericho, Owens/Ziggler, and Kalisto/ADR are solid in my book. I can totally understand some people viewing these matches, especially the latter two, as stale replays...but for me, this is where I reap the benefits of *not* watching RAW and SD every week. While I've seen these bouts once in the last month or so, I haven't seen them over and over like others so I'm not nearly as down on them as a more avid viewer could reasonably be. Everything else gives me opportunities to grab more beer and maybe sneak a smoke. What I'm most curious about though is if we'll get an appearance from the Undertaker or the Undertaker's challenger, whoever that may be. If we get one of those two things (or an even less likely appearance from Daniel Bryan in Brie's corner), I think this show will come off as a pretty good all-around event.

I'm really surprised this match doesn't please people. Sure, its a bit of a clusterfuck - but considering WCW's track record of convoluted multi-mans (i'm thinking Doomsday Cage, BattleBowls, World War 3, basically anything besides the 3-4 good WarGames matches) - this match is easily one of the best they ever produced. Here's some of the pros: * The first "5 minute" round is really fun as Giant destroys everyone, including Hall taking some good, motivated bumps. * The Giant's elimination makes absolute sense and raises the suspense as Team WCW is now down 2 members before the match has truly even begun. * Nearly everyone gets their signature offense in, which is not always the case in a Rumble, for example. Only Mongo and Scott Steiner don't get any real chance to shine. * Piper and Savage brawling and Piper eventually going after Rodman. I don't recall, but was the plan for Rodman to wrestle Piper ala Mr. T/Piper? Piper's promos at the time were still good enough to sell terrible matches (his series with Hogan), so I think it would've worked just fine. * Benoit looks tough as hell, surviving the match the longest before finally eating a Razor's Edge before getting tossed out. * The nWo taking a breather and huddling to figure out how to eliminate Luger makes sense to me. They had the match won, but as cocky, arrogant heels, they shouldn't be in any rush to finish off Luger, who essentially plays possum. He back body drops Nash and puts Savage in the rack and it makes sense that Savage would submit quickly - I mean, he doesn't want to risk injury when, even if he submits, they're up 3-on-1. Then Luger knocks Nash over the top (the best way to get rid of a big man) before locking Hall in the rack as well. Hall, having been the first entrant in his team, is the most tired guy in the ring and Hogan The Coward isn't going to make the save. In the end, Luger has Hogan right where he wants him, but the nWo doesn't follow rules and has to cheat to win. Cue garbage getting tossed in by the crowd. * The post-match. Not only is it a great moment storyline-wise, but the actual production of it is really good - Sting not making his entrance until the show is seemingly over and the nWo is making their way out of the building. Iconic moment as Sting points the bat at Hulk and the two come to blows for the first time and just after he hits him with the reverse DDT, Schiavone tells us we're out of time. Great way to sell watching Nitro the next night. As for the rest of the show, I think UnCensored 97' is underrated, especially for fans, like myself, who often seek something nostalgic and fun to watch. Mortis/Glacier overachieves. Guerrero/Malenko is a good opener. Between every match there's a purposeful segment or cool/funny video (Steiners getting run off the road, the Spring Stampede commercial, and the absolutely awesome DDP/Savage segment where Savage unveils Kimberly's Playboy spread). Very few shows tend to "fly by" when I watch them, but this one absolutely did, the only matches that lag are Dragon/Psychosis (which is still a pretty good watch) and Harlem Heat/Public Enemy (which is still probably one of the most watchable matches these teams had in WCW). Recommended for sure.

Here's the review I wrote of it for my blog... "The WCW World Championship is on the line in our next bout - reigning champion The Rock defending against Chris Jericho. Coming into the match, both guys are babyfaces, though Jericho would tease his heelish nature in small bits throughout the contest. Unlike The Rock's matches with Booker T at the previous two shows, The Rock looks a bit more comfortable working with Y2J. Meanwhile, Jericho comes into the match, built on the idea that he couldn't win "The Big One," energetic and eager for the spotlight. Aside from his clashes with Shawn Michaels in 2009, I'm not sure there was ever a time Jericho was as confident as he appears here - you really get the feeling that, at this time, he believed he was the best wrestler in the world. As for the match itself, it's hard fought and well-paced, a good example of WWE "main event style" but with significantly more athleticism than The Rock or Austin would have been doing two years prior. While the finish is a bit cheap, everything leading up to it and after packs an emotional punch that's impossible to ignore. Very, very good match. (4/5)" I don't think its a Top 30 of all time and, as a matter of fact, I gave the show's actual main event (Austin/RVD/Angle) an equal score of 4/5.