C.S.

Ibushi vs. Maluta was amazing. I'll even go as far as to say I enjoyed more than Finn vs. Nak, which didn't really get going until the final five minutes and had the bullshit WWE "let's kick out of finishers" crap that's so trite now. Nak is amazing - an elite wrestler and character - but Finn still leaves me feeling cold. Anyway, did I ever think Ibushi was going to lose? No. But a couple of near-falls at the end had me doubting just a wee bit. I also thought Daivari's brother was the best of the bunch at the heel/sports entertainment/playing to the crowd stuff, which will make him instantly more attractive to Vince than a lot of these other guys IMO. I wonder why Daivari's brother got the nod instead of Daivari himself though? I thought Mauro and Bryan were a phenomenal announce team. The people criticizing Bryan in this thread are nuts. Does he have room to improve? Sure. But in his very first outing, he was better than the majority of commentators the WWE has thrown at us over the last 30 years. BTW, is this thread safe from spoilers or should I avoid if I'm watching week to week and want to be surprised?

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not interested in it either - I just think it will be solid from an in-ring perspective. But I don't care about it, at all.

The obvious one that never should've happened was Nash beating Goldberg's streak and then losing it via finger poke to Hogan. Even at the time, I failed to understand why Nash was getting the coveted Starrcade World Title shot and main event spot. He was was somewhat over and got decent pops, I guess, but he wasn't nearly over enough to headline WCW's big year-end show, much less win it. After Goldberg beat Hogan for the strap, facing Nash seemed like and was a step down. What a disaster! I don't remember the roster well enough to suggest alternatives (which I guess kinda side-steps your question), but Goldberg vs. Nash did not excite me at all - and I don't mean that in a "smarky workrate fan" kind of way. It was just a shitty, unappealing match-up with about as much heat as a Slurpee. Edit: If anyone can point me in the direction of a WCW roster for this period, I'd be happy to suggest other people worthy of a title run. The obvious and logical answer, though, would be to keep it on Goldberg.

I read all three of these, and they were surprisingly good. I don't know if I necessarily learned anything new, or at least not much, but it was still a great reminder and travel down memory lane.

I feel the exact opposite. Him losing to Hunt would've left WWE scrambling after he beat the Streak and hasn't "made" anyone since. What would the WWE's next move have been after a Hunt loss? We'll never know, but that's a hell of a lot more interesting to consider IMO. Either way, we'll get a match and victory over Randy Orton. Talk about a pedestrian pair-up that very few people asked for or wanted, but at least it will be solid in the ring.

Yeah, I definitely responded before I saw your edit. But whoa whoa whoa, I never said I liked Meat, Terri's miscarriage, etc. LOL. I just said I thought the Beaver vignettes were entertaining, but the character died the minute he stepped onto a ramp and headed to the ring. The rest of that crap I definitely didn't like. Hacksaw's heel turn was the worst of the worst, because at least with Meat, etc. you could laugh at and/or ignore how bad it was. With Duggan's turn, his 20+ year persona as an all-American patriot was effectively ruined in the most nonsensical and illogical manner possible. Even when Sgt. Slaughter turned his back on his country, which was a stretch in itself, there was at least some semblance of a reason there, however flimsy. With Duggan, it was done only for shock value and nothing else, and the worst part was, no one cared. About the only interesting aspect of that was seeing Duggan with a haircut and shave, but that novelty got old after the first five seconds. You make a great point about DeMott. He really made chicken salad out of chicken shit with "General" Rection, and I think it proves how underutilized he was all along. He may be an abusive asshole as a trainer, but he wasn't a bad talent. Still, the one thing Russo does deserve credit for is putting DeMott in that spot to get the U.S. Title. That didn't happen by itself.

I'm arguing that those characters fit into Vince McMahon's "shades of grey" speech. Five years earlier, Austin would not have been a babyface with that character. I wasn't arguing this at all, but I agree with you that Bret Hart's anti-U.S., pro-World character was incredible at the time and will likely never be replicated. Yes, I'm agreeing with you about Koko. I'm happy to see Golden Truth, Social Outcasts, etc. get more to do, but it's still very inconsistent and you know it. I'm not secretly angry about Curtis Axel. Good wrestler but either miscast or needs a personality transplant - not really sure. Never said it was "Russo's magic formula" either, just that I'll defend him for trying to do something with everyone. Agreed about Meat, PMS, Religious Dustin Runnels (WTF was that?), etc. I will say, though, that Beaver Cleaver's vignettes did work for me, but it died an instant death once he actually had to walk down the ramp and wrestle as that character - similar to Sean O'Haire in the WWE a few years later. It may have been entertaining from a television standpoint, but not everything can translate to wrestling. I liked The Brady Bunch as a kid, but I wouldn't want to see characters like that in a wrestling ring. That's sort of the effect Beaver Cleavage, "Devil's Advocate" O'Haire, etc. had. The thing is, I prefer horrible gimmicks that are at least memorable to guys having no character, no spot, and nothing to do. Meat, etc. sucked, but at least we remember it - unlike, say, K.C. James, who no one remembers. (Recently watched No Mercy 2006 randomly, which is how I came up with that particular example. His partner was Idol Stevens, who later became Damien Sandow.) I'll also defend MIA, even though I wouldn't call it great or anything. Still, Bill DeMott never meant more than he did in that stupid gimmick (he even won his first and only singles title, and it felt like a good moment when he did). Overall, it was still better than what they were doing with those guys before, which was nothing. A weird example on your part, because there were so many worse gimmicks you could have brought up - like "Fat Chick Thriller" and "That 70's Guy" (poor Mike Awesome).

Then the "complete bullshit" is McMahon's. He's the one who made the "shades of grey" speech (video above). Plus, Austin was a babyface who acted like a heel. Ditto for Rock and a few others. That had never really been done on such a large level before, at least in the WWE. Five years earlier, the Austin character would have been a heel, period. Koko B. Ware had a character. He had a mascot. He had a (very small) push. Did he have feuds? I can't remember. But even if he was the lowest man on the totem pole, he still mattered in a way Curtis Axel does not. Vince Russo obviously didn't invent the concept of using every wrestler - that was the philosophy in the '80s too - but it got lost somewhere along the way, after Russo left, and it's been hurting the product ever since. Even in the horrible mid-'90s, which was as far from hot as it gets, even minor acts like Duke "The Dumpster" Drose and Sparky Plugg were given more of a character, personality, and spot than most of today's lower card in the WWE, and the fans felt something for them.

Just going by what he said in this speech. I am not a mind reader and have no idea what he actually believed and didn't believe.

I read the book years ago too, and I may be wrong because it's been so long, but I got the distinct impression that much of the "uncensored" stuff was still considerably neutered, with only a few remnants remaining. This is the one talking point I'll defend Russo on to the ends of the earth. Giving EVERYONE something to do is simply sound booking and getting the most value out of the ENTIRE roster - things that are sorely lacking today. This approach to booking does NOT mean that Gangrel is on equal footing with Stone Cold. That was never the case. Everyone was more over and the fans had a reason to care about all of the characters, but the cream still rose to the top - Austin, Rock, etc. Just to use one of many examples of two comparable wrestlers push-wise, D-Lo Brown was over in a way Curtis Axel has never been. Except, he was rebooking the Attitude Era, where the edict from Vince McMahon himself was that the era of the good guy and bad guy was passe - it was all about shades of grey. That was the philosophy of the time, and for that short period, even though it went against conventional wisdom, it worked. In retrospect, there were way too many face and heel turns. I think Russo (hopefully) has to know deep that down that Booker wasn't Rock and Jarrett wasn't Triple H, but when he was in WCW, they were (in his mind) the best he had to work with, so I see nothing wrong with him promoting them, hyping them up, and trying to get the most out of them.

SMW may have been "fun" but it lost money, ended up shutting down, and wasn't in the least bit influential. At least with ECW, it influenced the entire industry. Ah, but we're not debating their merits as "talent." It's irrelevant to this particular discussion. Of course Cornette wins by a country mile in this category. Hell, Russo's not even in the race. Very intelligent response! Depending on who you believe (and I won't pretend I was there or know for sure) Cornette fought against most of it and ended up being marginalized. The fact that everyone talks about "Russo and Ferrara" (and to to a lesser extent, "Russo, Ferrara, and Terry Taylor" when discussing this era tells me that Cornette was pretty much bounced out of the picture after a while. I'm still scratching my head and trying to figure out what the hell I just read. Er, I guess if there are third-party consulting jobs available, I can understand Russo going after it? Money is money, and you can't fault a guy for trying...or something like that? Does seem really desperate though, which it obviously is. This is a clear cash-grab on Russo's part. Again, man's got to make a living, but it is kinda sad.

Russo's booking was part (a part - not the whole reason) of one of the most successful money drawing periods in wrestling history, the Attitude Era. Cornette's booking didn't draw anywhere and lost money everywhere. I wouldn't hire either of them at this point, but if you held a gun to my head and forced me to open up an unsuccessful start-up wrestling promotion with one of the two, I'd go with Russo. At least he never slapped any of the talent like a redneck idiot hopped up on caffeine. For all of the talk of Russo going around to different feds and begging for jobs, well, places like Lucha Underground would want nothing to do with Corny either. This is really silly to debate. Two fat old fucks getting into a fistfight sounds about as entertaining as The Dicks being managed by Big Dick Johnson.

To be fair, George Lucas is apparently the same way. Now, you can all argue about Lucas's merits all you want, but you can't argue with Lucas's success - love him or hate him, he has been undeniably successful. All of this makes me wonder, though, if Russo has dyslexia or some other kind of disability. That would perfectly explain everything you described. Jim Cornette is like the meme "old man yelling at a cloud" to me. His bullshit almost makes Russo sympathetic. I said almost.

Not that I'm defending Snuka, but I have to imagine he has a ton of legal bills, and stuff like Wrestlecon helps him pay those bills. It might also be a strategic move from his defense. "Hey, he's an innocent man and he's going about his business and living his life." Didn't say it was a smart strategy, just that it may be a strategy.

Haven't read this yet, but it sounds interesting (especially since someone just asked for books about Japan). Ali vs. Inoki http://www.newsweek.com/muhammad-ali-antonio-inoki-mixed-martial-arts-ufc-japan-mma-boxing-wrestling-474502

Many of the ECW wrestlers in WCW - particularly Hardcore Hak (Sandman) and Mikey Whipwreck - seemed really out of place. Sabu in the early days of Nitro definitely didn't work. Come to think of it, Sandman and Sabu didn't work in WWE either.

People found it impossible to take Buddy Rogers seriously? Did you read my entire post?! Obviously not, so I'll quote myself... Really can't stand unwarranted snark, especially when it's this lazy. Come on, guys, read the entire post before commenting - not too much to ask, is it? (Wait, I forgot - we're on the internet, so yeah, it probably is too much to ask.)

Man, people's standards have really dropped if fucking Westley Blake and Buddy Murphy are considered good names now. They're awful names. It is impossible to take anyone with the names Westley or Buddy seriously. This ain't the 1960s when Buddy was a viable wrestling name. Dash Wilder is even worse. (I'll concede that Scott Dawson is a perfectly fine name - albeit boring as hell.) Sure, they're better than Oney Lorcan or Andrade "Cien" Almas, but that isn't saying much. I'm guessing you guys think Curtis Axel is a brilliant name too? (Well, compared to Michael McGilliciutty, it is.)

Dave is overreacting then. Bayley likely gets called up by SummerSlam or Survivor Series - the day after WrestleMania 33 at the latest - because she's currently going nowhere in NXT right now. She and Finn Balor (who I'm not even all that enamored of) desperately need call-ups.

I haven't seen Dave's tweet, but it sounds kinda silly because Bayley has evolved as a character from early days and will continue to evolve. The Bayley we see five years from now will not be the same Bayley we know today. One quick example: she will eventually, inevitably turn heel. That would be a catastrophically bad idea now, but it may not be five years from now.

Same kind of name as: - Westley Blake - Buddy Murphy - Dash Wilder - Scott Dawson - etc. For all of the great things NXT does, coming up with names isn't one of them.

ROH weekly TV will be available on FITE TV starting June 27th. FITE TV is an app for iPhone/Android. You can "airplay" from the app onto your TV with a Roku or another compatible device.

Pretty sure pot is only a fine now and not an actual Wellness violation. Only the "fake pot" that idiots like Evan Bourne used is part of the Wellness Policy.

Best PPV in a while!

What?! His gear's awesome. It's Roman's that looks ugly and bland.