dawho5
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Everything posted by dawho5
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Here is my dilemma after watching this. People can't watch Benoit matches because he murdered his family. I get that. But they can watch Lawler promos where he is flat out racist, which could be the truth of it, without batting an eye? I understand that racism is not murder. And I can separate performance and the human being behind the performance. It's just afterwards that I start wondering how much of what Lawler says is nonsense to get over as a heel and how much he actually agrees with. All that said, he is absolutely brilliant here in the role he plays. Marlin and Brown do great as well, but they've both been in their respective roles long enough that it's no surprise. I suppose the reason Cobra was champ had a lot to do waith a. race-baiting by Lawler to get him over as a heel and b. not many guys are going to sit through that for the kind of money they would get in Memphis.
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I liked Lawler missing the bit where Cobra bought into the match because he was on the phone also. Played off of the earlier segment so damn perfectly. Not sure of the racism from Lawler is funny or a little disturbing, but it makes him a great heel. Also, count me among the impressed on the "scentless" exchange. Wrestling needs way, way more on-the-fly promos.
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Being a Kawada fanboy (proud to say I am still one) I missed a lot of the Fuyuki hype on earlier watchings of Footloose. He is clearly at least as good as Kawada at this point and I'm wondering when he fell off a cliff. This match is one of those great AJPW midcard workrate matches that didn't necessarily need a lot of psychology to do it's job. Just some guys out there killing themselves to put on a show. Kada, Fuyuki and Fulton killing themselves to add some hate to it was just a bonus.
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I liked one exchange with Yamazaki stopping himself from going after Anjoh so he got the "down", then Anjoh getting pissed and not doing anything of the sort. So once Yamazaki gets back in charge he does the same, beating down Anjoh with headbutts. Anjoh seemd to have learned from this and settles down to get is own " down" on Yamazaki moments later. Good stuff. I don't mind shootstyle and these guys did a good job of structuring things.
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I enjoyed Tenryu as much as most here. Seeing Misawa as the plucky FIP was great also. Fuyuki helping Tenryu get the upper hand on Jumbo after the hot tag was an interesting twist. Jumbo having to fight through the superior teamwork was the wrinkle that made this match really pop for me. The ending was interesting with Tenryu eventually causing Fuyuki's doom and then walking away in disgust. What a glorious asshole move.
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I thought this was a great competitive squash. Sullivan missed his calling as a commentator unless he started working somewhere I'm not aware of after he retired from active wrestling. Cactus looked great, so did Lee Scott when you think about it. Sullivan's comment about Foley's health was prophetic when you think about it.
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That is a tough one. I can still watch matches with Benoit, Invader 1 and Snuka and see what they are as workers, etc. But somewhere in the back of my mind I realize what they did and somehow manage to separate the performer from the human being. I don't in any way condone what they did, it's just the same as watching the Naked Gun movies and buying O.J. as a sympathetic, comedic character despite the reality of the man. I think it's part of the suspension of disbelief while something is being viewed. Outside of that, it's hard to see even somebody like Benoit, who obviously had some psychological issues and needed help he didn't try to find, in any kind of positive light. But there is something to be said for separating somebody's art from their horrible low moments that got the light of day shone on them. Imagine if the media/internet were as pervasive as it were 100 years ago. Would somebody like Babe Ruth or Lou Gherig, Sandy Koufax, Dick Butkus, Lou Thesz....the list goes on and on, would they have had massive character flaws? Shit, I know he's not any kind of sacred cow but take a look at Kensuke Sasaki. He killed a kid trying to learn to wrestle in the dojo. Sure it was probably an accident, but murder, intended or not, should be treated as such. And Sasaki's case was not all that scrutinized that I remember. Did some of the heroes of yesteryear have the same kinds of (or worse) skeletons in their closet that just never were uncovered? I'm not saying it makes murder in any way okay, but to me there is a separation of what a [performer did in their chosen field and who they were away from that profession.
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On this one I'm not sure. I go back to when I would listen to co-workers tell me about movies and how this or that movie was really funny. Then I'd watch the movie and not think it was funny at all. If a certain person reviews matches and consistently likes matches that you don't it's probably a good bet their opinion is going to carry less weight for you. It has nothing to do with the validity of their opinion, just more a matter of their taste not at all matching with yours. That being said, the Hart vs. Khali argument is a tough one to swalllow. Is it safe to say that there are a certain amount of quantifiable factors that have a big effect on how opinions are formed? I could watch two wrestlers (I'm on disc 7 of PNW so let's go with Billy Jack and Rip Oliver) and tell you a lot about the differences. Billy is definitely more explosive and probably stronger, as well as really looking the part. But he's incredibly limited and struggles to stay away from headlocks for any amount of time. Rip has a lot more tools to work with and seems to know when to employ which tool to it's fullest more often than not. These are things that it's very hard to argue against, but it's possible to prefer Billy Jack in 1983 to Rip Oliver. I went with a closer (but not as much as you think) comparison to highlight the more grey areas of the argument.
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There is a certain charm to Don Owens. Some wrestling terms, like "tag team," he just refuses to utter. It's always "team" or "relay team". And he's always got that annoyed-sounding dad tone when he's dealing with anyone that's the least bit heelish. Either he's a TRUE old-old-old-school wrestling guy who refuses to use all the flashy new terms or he never was into wrestling and doesn't care to learn the jargon. Either way he comes across like a crotchedy old bastard who doesn't care one bit about what you think, which I can dig. Far as the match goes it is more of the same from the previous match between Rose and Borne. Good pacing, lots of blood and guts and...yeah Borne almost no-selling the chain which was pretty bad. So a step below, but still one of my favorites on the set so far.
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So this match...yeah. Buddy starts off by assaulting Borne as he's taking off his sweatpants. Borne finally lands a good shot and Buddy goes into bump-and-feed mode which is incredible with Borne knowing exactly what to do. The earlier Borne/Rose rivalry had a very inexperienced Matt Borne and it showed. This time around Borne is way less green. Quick (very well executed as well) counter sequence and Borne puts Rose away. Buddy starts off the next fall by knocking Borne into a ringpost. A chairshot follows and Buddy distracts the crowd while Borne blades by menacing a few people in the front row with a chair. Brilliant stuff that, you forget Borne is even around while Buddy is making like he's going to hit a fan with a chair. Rose destroys Borne with a big chairshot from outside in and gets the second fall. Borne makes a comeback in the third and bloodies Rose. It's payback time and the crowd is loving it. I love how they are re-establishing Borne as a face with this match. Shows a wonderful grasp of how to work a crowd. Match spills outside and we get a countout, but it doesn't end there. They continue brawling and Buddy starts swinging a chair at anyone who comes out to stop the fight. Dutch Savage comes out and after ducking a chairshot or two informs everyone that Don Owens is PISSED. Next week is a lights out match where anything goes. With lumberjacks. BUT NOT ON TV???? FUCK YOU!! As it turns out, my completely valid (and not over) reaction to this not being on TV is too soon as Borne and Rose are hooking it up in a lumberjack match two weeks later that wasn't supposed to be on TV. One aside here is that this was only 13 minutes long in it's entirety. I like the style, but a lot of the 2/3 falls matches could benefit from shorter falls. There's a lot of meandering and just back and forth stuff to keep things moving. It works, but it takes a condensed and hate-fueled brawl like this to make me wish ten minutes had been cut off of most of the TV main events. You throw in even a good headlock or armbar sequence and it kills the momentum these guys kept all the way through. Imagine if a few of the Piper matches had been this length!
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When is overbooked getting his backing? I'm looking forward to that promotion.
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I would agree that yes, you could make a case for shootstyle with pins involved for just the reasons mentioned. You force your opponent to leave openings for you by kicking out. So early attempts at pinfalls become more a strategy against an opponent who is countering your attempts to improve your position well instead of just something to do to kill time. It would also place emphasis on the different ways a wrestler can get out of a pinfall attempt, i.e. which shoulder they choose to roll, which direction they kick themselves up, in an effort to protect against a pass or an attack on a wounded body part. I also think that effective use of strikes and selling of strikes, both initially and progressively can make a big difference in a match.
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That match was one of my favorites in the Japan 2000s watching. Ogawa from around 1998 to 2003 is something I need to watch a lot more of because I think he may be one of the more underrated wrestlers of that period. He's definitely a dickish little shit who needs to be put in his place. But as Matt touched on, he's also got this quality about him that is admirable. He refuses to stay down even in the face of impossible odds and finds whatever way he can to make you believe that he actually has a chance. Which is completely and totally ridiculous to think would even be possible. But he manages it in very convincing ways and that's something huge in his favor.
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Also, that six man has some serious talent involved. When Invader 3 and Ron Starr are the "weak links" for their teams, it's hard to imagine bad things happening in the match.
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Most of this was covered by elliot above me, but I'll be damned if I don't have to stress one thing: The CROWD!!! I'm not certain how they managed to drown out the fucking horns during Colon's comebacks, but they did. I agree that in a set full of amazing crowd reactions, this one is just the biggest and best. Fans almost pegging Chicky in the head with chairs from the front rows is possibly one of my favorite things ever happening outside the ring. Sloppy as shit and Strong is nowhere above decent, but this somehow ends up being a classic match.
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Some awesome stuff so far, I'm almost at the end of disc 7. Invader 1 is great with the exception of a lot of his offense. It's just a bit lacking compared to Colon, Abby and Invader 3. His selling and BLEEDING are ridiculous. I can't believe that was all his blood after that match tagging with Invader 2 against Ron & Chicky Starr. I'm pretty sure losing THAT MUCH blood from your head would kill you dead. I will say the blatant punt to the balls when the chops aren't knocking a guy down is a genius bit of fiery babyface offense. As mentioned above, Invader 3 really impresses with the offense. I don't know that he's in the same ballpark as Invader 1 on selling or getting the crowd behind him, but damn is he fun to watch when he gets going. I'd seen the Colon vs. Hansen feud, not the Colon vs. Abby feud. I still prefer the Hansen feud, but it's really impressive how much Colon and Abby vary things up between their different matches to keep it fresh. Ron Starr is a really, really good worker. I don't know if I'd give him great, but I'm right up next to it. Doesn't seem to matter who he works, he brings the goods. Also, HUGE points for crowd brawling in the stadium against Invader 1. Ballsy move there. Chicky is pretty damn incredible. His stomps look really weak, but I can forgive that just the same as I do Invader 1. He is such an energetic bumper and stooger. And I love how much he completely commits to the chickenshit heel stuff, no thought of saving face whatsoever. He also will get vicious at times when he gets the upper hand. Somebody made a comment on Satanico's promos for the lucha set that I think applies here. I don't understand Spanish, but damn if I don't have to pay attention when Chicky Starr starts talking. Dan Kroffat is nowhere near as good in PR as Japan. He's just...missing something. It's like he lets Jaggers bring the douchey heel persona and just goes out there and wrestles for the most part. Jaggers is not bad, but nowhere near a highlight unless he's on commentary. Colon is great at working gimmick matches. He never seems to ignore the gimmick for very long, always making the match, the stip, the circumstances seem more relevant than anyone I've ever seen. He gets how to make things mean something and that's probably part of his mystique with the fans. I dig the idea also that nothing is off limits even for the tecnicos. If you're going up against low down and dirty Chicky and Ron Starr, you better be ready to take just as many shortcuts if you want to win! I think the MVP of everything I've watched so far is the god damn crowd. Whatever venue they go to, there is this insanely rabid crowd that will go as far as throwing punches at the rudoswhen they get within reach. And the reactions when whoever the babyface in the match is starts their big comeback make me want that crowd watching every Southern tag I've ever seen. Also, some of those people are just insanely accurate or lucky in just how much of the garbage they throw at the rudos hits.
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Atlantis, Ringo Mendoza y Tony Salazar vs. El Satanico, MS-1 y Espectro Jr. 9/28/84 I thought a lot of the exchanges not involving Satanico and Atlantis looked really awkward. There was one punch exchange involving MS1 that was really good in the third caida. Some excessive repetition drags this down a lot. Two of these came about two minutes apart, which made them stand out. Match followed a good story, with Satanico refusing to face Atlantis on even terms. Atlantis finally gets the better of Satanico in the third, ending with the final sunset flip for the cover. Looks like this was meant to set up a singles match between Atlantis and Satanico and it works for that. Definitely not one of the better matches on the set even if it was fun.
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Javier Cruz, Impacto y Solar II vs. El Dandy, Franco Colombo y Panico 10/84 I was a big fan of Dandy ducking Cruz right up until the advantage was there. The beatdown on Cruz (mostly by Dandy) was all kinds of awesome. Impacto and then Solar coming in to save Cruz from the beating was really good the way they did it in stages. Dandy is really incredible in this with the HUGE floor bump, the big sentons, the knee drop to the apron and the awesome punches. His exchanges with Cruz late were really awesome. I also liked him getting a little irritated with his bigger partner for constantly hitting teammates early on. Cruz brought the fire for his comeback and I dug how long it took and the struggle involved for all 3 tecnicos to put away their tormentors. Given how dominant the rudos had been, it seemed right. The finish was awesome, with Dandy selling big even after the match for Cruz's big reversal. Wish there was more of this on tape, because what is there is damn good. Perro Aguayo vs. Sangre Chicana vs. El Faraon vs. Villano III (Elimination Match) 10/84 I don't know that I'd skip all the great early brawling leading up to that tope mentioned by Exposer. These guys all knew how to throw a punch and were going toe-to-toe for a short while. The tope is possibly the most glorious dive I've ever seen. Loved how nobody could keep their nose out of what was going on after the 4 man fall. Chicana bleeds big again and Perro is incredible working him over. The punching comeback from Chicana is as awesome as you would expect. Third fall is gritty as Hell. Loved the dropkick Chicana threw after hitting the ropes. And both of them beating the shit out of each other. Chicana catching a foul kick and responding in kind is another cop-out finish, but they make it work. I'd rank this fairly high so far, but under the cream of the crop.
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Sangre Chicana vs. MS-1 (Hair vs. Hair) 9/21/84 Shorter than their earlier match. I really like MS1 as a brawling rudo. The finishes of caidas 2 and 3 work really well together, especially with that nutty bump MS1 takes off of the tope. MS1 selling that tope forever didn't hurt either. Not near as good as their match on disc 1 though. Still a lot of fun to watch. Villano III vs. Perro Aguayo 10/7/84 Perro's offense is all kinds of awesome. I liked how the matwork had a different feel to it than previous mat-based encounters. That double stomp was a great way to end the fall. Perro going right back to the midsection was good psychology. I kind of wish Villano had taken a few moments here and there to do some long term selling of the ribs. Finish is a bunch of garbage, but the post-match brawling kind of makes up for it? Satanico vs. Super Astro 10/84 Okay, you know how I mentioned Satanico is great at getting just enough sympathy to not be a complete rudo? Yeah, that's not how it goes down here at all. First he gets in the much shorter Super Astro's face and talks a bunch of shit. Finishing up with a gesture involving grinding Astro's face into the mat with his boot. And immediately offers a handshake once the match starts. Which he gives cleanly....then starts to viciously kick and knee Astro repeatedly. And then bash his head into anything handy. Astro makes the big comeback bid only to get cut off, but Satanico is gloating and ends up getting caught. And proceeds to throw a fit, fucking great. Second caida Satanico beats the fuck out of Astro more and starts biting and ripping the mask after he can't get it to come all the way off. What a great, great beatdown. Some of Satanico's punches are just brutal looking. Anyway, on to caida 3 where Astro is all over Satanico with the revenge biting. Satanico's face is covered in blood, he gets up and finds that out for himself. And gets royally PISSED OFF! The back and forth contest to see who can work the cut over more is on! The brawl on their knees was really great stuff, with Astro really shining despite getting his face beat in. Satanico is all kinds of pissed off after the rana pin and the crowd lets him have it. Sounds like they set up another match between the two post-match (it's hard to tell) that I'm psyched to see!! Satanico is really making a case as a GOAT caliber wrestler in 1984. He's got a lot of variety in his performances.