dawho5

TEW is about you as the booker taking on the world. This is more about many bookers working together, bickering, and/or both. Honestly with the way you and goc are I can't believe you're not lining up to take WCCW over. Seems like you two would book that little war in a way that was entertaining without ever having to cooperate or compare notes.

Over time your roster will get bigger. The territory that absorbs the next one takes some of the roster, but it was less then half IIRC. yeah, you're getting midcard guys, but there's no problem in having a strong midcard that you can build into a strong upper mid/main event scene. It just takes time and patient booking.

So jump over to Florida. Their roster is ridiculously loaded. I would agree that you don't get to pick up your old roster after jumping. seems like too much.

If Trav and JHawk aren't going to pick Denis Goulet I will select him and immediately throw him to the Alabama Wrestling Alliance. Lots of tags and brawling would be appreciated, Boon.

Remember that the territory takeover model also involved dropping a good amount of wrestlers. I am in agreement with goc on both counts though. If it comes to that, let's just have somebody absorb the promotion and sort out the rosters after they cherry pick them.

One thing I'm picking up reading this thread is that we each have something we want out of this happening. Here's what i want. I want 8 - 10 promotions that update (weekly or biweekly, daily, whatever) on a regular basis. My reasoning is this. If we get down to 5 and I want to unload, let's say Louis Laurence, for a few months it becomes more difficult. Because maybe he's been to each of the other four promotions, or three of them. And if they don't have room for what they will use him as based on what he has already done there? No dice. Also, the more promotions you have, the more chances there are for interpromotional invasions, cross-promotion groups, whatever you want to do. And finally, I like reading what other people do with it. It's always interesting to see somebody else's take on wrestling and a project like this will show you how that person looks at it really clearly. I think we're getting hung up on a lot of the details of the how of it. We all want something to happen for our own reasons. there is one certainty with as many people involved as we have. You're not going to get things exactly your way. We're all going to have to give up something we wanted going in so we can hammer out a deal that works for everyone involved. It's not going to be easy and it's going to take compromises.

I'm definitely okay with people switching promotions. I think if Brian was going to be out for a month he ought to have mentioned it as publicly as possible. I feel like we should give him some leeway though as he does have his reasons. He should be given until the first full week of October to give some kind of response given the circumstances. But I want two caveats attached as well. 1. If you're going to be taking some time off for a while, let everyone know why and give a general idea of how long. Maybe have somebody take over for you in your absence like Parv did. 2. For those promotions that are behind, there ought to be some kind of timeframe they have to keep to. If you're in, it's all well and good to say so. But keep posting something along the lines of catching up at least weekly. Or something along those lines. It doesn't even have to be a big, long thing. Just something. I want to also take time to point out that it does affect other people's promotions. KrisZ had planned on making half his big show about the rest of the NWA. There are interpromotional plans. If you're not posting anything for a month or so those sorts of things get screwed up.

I'm of the opinion that WWA is in based on recent shows. As far as new bookers, I see no problem giving them run of the other promotions. I have a hard time seeing a territory system without WCCW, Georgia and Florida. If there is some kind of problem with how loaded the Florida roster is (not from me, but there are other ways of looking at it) maybe it's Georgia and WCCW that get the newer writers. Who got the Florida towns I don't recall. I would guess that neither new writer would *want* to be ICW, but again there are different ways of looking at it. Let's just try to find a resolution in the most peaceful way possible.

Milwaukee show is shaping up to be pretty good! Hogan vs. Patera in the main, Roadies & Bills, Tully showing up for a six man! I do wonder what kind of "Polish" stipulation is going to decide Wiskowski vs. Putski.

So run all the way up to September 16th as a summary. Use that to build up your big matches, etc. and have that big show be your restart. Then just cruise from there.

Grimmas had suggested that a summary of events could be done. Maybe do a more broad summary of storylines and title changes, whatever, leading up to mid-September and go from there? It's not something that is highly appealing, I understand, but it will get you back in the thick of it faster.

Kris, I'm sorry to see you go as you were one of my very favorite promotions. I will miss the GC, Jake & co. and Butch & Koko having a great three way feud for sure. Boricua, nobody is going to kick you out. If you have a plan to catch back up and think you can do that, that is the purpose here. We want to find out who it is that still wants to do this and who has just drifted away to the point where they are no longer interested.

Depending on how many want to come in that should be set up differently. Obviously we will need to make some exceptions on the draft for the one or two new promoters coming in (if they do). Do they keep their main talent, say ten or twelve? Do they get more and better high draft picks? Which promotions are being taken over? These are all questions for after we know who is still in, but I'm trying to cover all of our bases so we get some ideas going.

The main in Mobile looks incredible. I'm liking the major feuds and the more midcard feuds as well. Fabs vs. Eaton/Pritchard looks awesome.

September 20th, 1983, Auditorium de Shawinigan, Shawinigan, QC (3,700, sellout) The Gerrard Brothers defeated Etienne Bergeron & Frederic Tremblay with a double suplex on Bergeron Dan Johnson defeated Bobby Kay with a power slam Goldie Rogers defeated Dave Kochen with a neckbreaker Earth & Sky defeated Louis Laurence & Tony Ricco with an airplane spin Samoan drop/falling headbutt combo on Ricco The Can Am Express & Rene Goulet defeated the Tongan Terrors & Quebec Heavyweight Champion Richard Charland after King Tonga savate kicked Charland when Lafon moved and Lafon pinned Charland The Midnight Express, Mad Dog Lefebvre & Gilles Poisson defeated the Canadian International Tag Team Champions The Fabulous Rougeau Brothers & the Invaders with a bearhug/second rope superplex combo on Invader 3, Invader 1 bled after Poisson dropped him over the post over the corner, Invader 1’s mask was half ripped off after the match and the Invaders attacked Poisson & Lefebvre, leading to a 4 team brawl

September 19th, 1983, Centre des Loisirs, Thetford Mines, QC (2,500, sellout) The Kay Brothers defeated Etienne Bergeron & Frederic Tremblay with a Rudy Kay backbreaker on Tremblay Tony Ricco defeated Tim Gerrard with a flying crossbody Quebec heavyweight Champion Richard Charland & Dan Johnson defeated Louis Laurence & Dave Kochen when Charland put his feet up on the second rope after a schoolboy on Kochen Phil Lafon over Rene Goulet with a cobra clutch, the two shook hands post-match Gino Brito & Tony Parisi cut a promo about Hata's "headbutt" Gino Brito & Tony Parisi went to a DCO with Earth & Sky Jacques Rougeau defeated Jim Brunzell with a Quebec crab, the two shook hands post-match Raymond Rougeau & the Invaders defeated Dennis Condrey, Mad Dog Lefebvre & Gilles Poisson when Raymond helped Invader 1 out with the Catapult on Lefebvre

I've been in support of giving people the benefit of the doubt before, but I'm getting to the point where I feel like there needs to be some resolution. At least half of the promotions haven't been heard from even in the sense of "I'm working on it." for quite a while. I don't have a lot of interest in new talent because I have enough to continue with the storylines I have going and planned for a good year and a half with no new talent. That being said, I think we need to figure out who exactly is still in this thing. I understand that the excitement of the draft and starting things has worn off and now it could be seen as work more than fun. I understand that maybe reading everyone else's stuff in addition to yours is a bit of a chore. But there has to come a time where either you are in or you're not. I understand completely if the time and effort aren't something you're not able or willing to put in. Parv has admitted as much and handed off his promotion for the time being, which I think is a respectable way to go about it. I do think there has to come a time where we are honest with ourselves about whether or not it's something we want to do or something we are going to do. I don't want to kick anyone out who is willing to try and catch things up. I just wonder how many are willing and how many just haven't admitted it to themselves yet. And I am not saying it's a bad thing if time constraints get in the way because of work, family or whatever else. I just think it's something that should be decided definitely rather than just let hang. We have one person who has actively expressed interest in joining and another who has reportedly done so. I think we have to make some hard choices very soon.

I didn't care for the AWA as much after you get past 1984 or so. I will agree that when all the older big names were around they had a lot going on and it was a really exciting promotion. I also find Verne's booking too safe for my tastes.

Just got caught up and I was a big fan of the Philly show. I like how both of your big feuds revolve around Dibiase right now.

That's a fair point. Still, looking forward to the matchup.

I have one thought about this show ate the end. Hayes vs. Valentine???? I hope you at least wait a week to pay that off, just to let it build up a bit.

I'm a big fan of the go home show for New Orleans. Looks like a really stacked card.

Bock vs. SARGE! Love it.

September 16th, 1983, Pavillon de la Jeunesse, Quebec City, QC (4,700) Dave Kochen defeated Tony Ricco with an inside cradle, the two shook hands post-match Earth & Sky defeated the Kay Brothers with an airplane spin Samoan drop/falling headbutt combo on Bobby Kay Gino Brito & Tony Parisi defeated the Gerrard Brothers with a side suplex/flying headbutt combo on Tim Gerrard Rene Goulet & Louis Laurence defeated Quebec Heavyweight Champion Richard Charland & Dan Johnson Jim Brunzell defeated Gilles Poisson The Midnight Express & Mad Dog Lefebvre defeated Canadian International Tag Team Champions the Fabulous Rougeau Brothers & Phil Lafon with an assisted second rope superplex on Lafon September 17th, 1983, Palais des Sports, Saint-Georges, QC (2,476, sellout) The Gerrard Brothers defeated Etienne Bergeron & Frederic Tremblay with an Alex Gerrard vertical suplex on Bergeron Gilels Poisson defeated Rudy Kay with a bearhug Quebec Heavyweight Champion Richard Charland defeated Tony Ricco after a low blow and a rollup with his feet on the ropes to retain his title Earth & Sky defeated Rene Goulet & Louis Laurence with an airplane spin Samoan drop/falling headbutt combo on Laurence Phil Lafon defeated Goldie Rogers Canadian International Tag Team Champions The Fabulous Rougeau Brothers & Gino Brito DCO the Midnight Express & Mad Dog Lefebvre, followed by a pull-apart brawl between the Rougeaus & Midnights

International Wrestling, September 16th, 1983 (taped September 14th, 1983, at the Colisée de Rimouski, Rimouski, QC ) 4,700 fans 0:00 - 9:30 The opening credits lead into a shot of the ring with Louis Laurence and Tony Ricco emerging from the curtain to a good reaction from the crowd. The two young men slap hands with the fans around the entrance aisle. Jacques, Sr. welcomes us to another great night of International Wrestling and points out that Laurence has beaten Richard Charland cleanly since Charland won the Quebec Heavyweight Title, but not for said title. Charland and his tag partner Dan Johnson come out next and the crowd boos. Jacques, Sr. has nothing good to say about Charland or Johnson, disapproving of their tactics thus far. Charland is pointing at the belt and raising his arms, looking right at Laurence as he does so. Louis Laurence & Tony Ricco vs. Quebec Heavyweight Champion Richard Charland & Dan Johnson Ricco starts the match out and immediately attacks Johnson’s leg. Ricco & Laurence work Johnson’s leg over until Charland uses his boot to rake Ricco’s eyes from the apron. Charland starts laying in a beating on Ricco, who comes back and tags in Laurence. Charland runs back to his corner and tags in Johnson despite the damge done to his partner’s leg before hastily exiting the ring to the floor. The faces again work over Johnson’s leg and seem to be on the verge of putting him away when Charland stops a Laurence half crab on Johnson with a running boot to the face. Charland works on Laurence for a bit before Laurence turns things around and puts on a headlock. Charland backs himself into a corner and catches a boot to the gut from an enraged Laurence, trips him up and leverages himself into a prawn hold using the second rope for the three. Richard Charland over Louis Laurence by pinfall with his feet on the second rope 8:44 Jacques, Sr. is disgusted with the way that match turned out and agrees with the fans as they boo Charland heartily. Jacques, Sr. takes time to run down the remaining matches on the card before we go to commercial. Commercial break 9:00 - 18:30 Jacques, Sr. welcomes the fans back to International wrestling, recapping Charland’s theft of a win over Laurence in the opening match. The camera cuts to the ring where Goldie Rogers is halfway down the aisle. The fans are booing him, and it only gets louder as he stops to grind his hips at several women in the front row. Jacques, Sr. is clearly irritated by Rogers and suggests the young man needs an attitude change. Invader 3 walks to the ring as the fans cheer loudly. The Puerto Rican wrestler soaks in the adulation as Jacques Sr. puts him over as a tough, athletic competitor. Invader 3 vs. Goldie Rogers Invader 3 runs into a drop toe hold by the arrogant youngster when the masked man charges in too quickly. Rogers works a headlock for a while, Invader 3 trying several escapes before sending Rogers off the ropes and dropping down before leapfrogging and nailing Rogers with a dropkick. Rogers staggers up in a corner only to take more than a few right hands from the hyper-aggressive Invader 3. Rogers weathers the storm and rolls out of the ring, checking his face for damage or blood. Referee Andre Roy reaches an 8 count before Rogers rolls into the ring and right back out. Roy is unhappy with Rogers, but Rogers shouts back that he “won’t have some masked moron ruining my face.” Invader 3 gets too aggressive when Rogers gets back up on the apron and ends up being draped throat-first across the top rope. Rogers goes to work with vicious punches followed by attempts at ripping Invader 3’s mask. Invader 3 finally has enough and comes roaring back with right hands before getting a nearfall on a crossbody. Invader starts softening up Rogers’ midsection with punches, but the young Canadian goes to the eyes and tries for a neckbreaker. Invader 3 shoves Rogers off the ropes and hits a back body drop, following with a senton after hitting the ropes for the three. Invader 3 over Goldie Rogers by pinfall after a running senton 7:58 Jacques, Sr. Is impressed with Invader 3’s win and notes that Rogers did put up a good fight, despite his refusal to get hit in the face, as the crowd cheers for Invader 3. Commercial break 18:30 - 28:30 The camera is on the ring as we return from commercial, with Gilles Poisson slowly making his way down the aisle as the crowd boos. Jacques, Sr. is critical of Poisson for using the tactics he does when he has such a big size advantage over most competitors in the IWA. Hercules Ayala, a stocky, very well-muscled Puerto Rican, comes out to a moderate reaction from the crowd. Jacques, Sr. recounts Ayala’s previous win in the IWA, pointing out the many strength based spots and questioning whether Ayala can do the same against a man he is giving up ten to fifteen pounds to. Hercules Ayala vs. Gilles Poisson Ayala starts the match off big, unloading right hands and slamming the bigger man down right away. Poisson eventually makes a comeback after several more strength spots, going to the eyes when Ayala tries to use a bearhug on him. Poisson proceeds to use every dirty trick in the book, raking Ayala’s eyes across the top rope, pulling the hair to keep an armbar on, attacks off of rope breaks, etc. while working over Ayala’s left arm. Ayala makes a comeback, but tries an overhead slam only to barely kick out as the 280 pound Poisson falls on top of him for a cover when his left arm gives out. Poisson tries a bearhug, but Ayala is too close to the ropes. Poisson refuses to let go of the hold, which leads to Ayala raking the eyes headbutting him to break the hold. Poisson is up faster, but has his legs pulled out from under him by Ayala. Ayala wants a crab hold, but Poisson grabs the ropes and pulls himself under them. Ayala stomps furiously at Poisson’s midsection before dragging him back into the ring after breaking at head referee Adrian Desbois’ four count. Ayala gets a HUGE pop as he gets Poisson up for the press slam, bounces off the ropes and leaps into the air to come crashing down on Poisson for the three. Hercules Ayala over Gilles Poisson by pinfall with a running body splash 7:17 Jacques, Sr. puts over the magnitude of Ayala’s quick victory over a competitor like Poisson, who used all of his guile in that match. He then begrudgingly gives the veteran Poisson credit for pushing the much younger Ayala to his limits in such a short time. Ayala celebrates in the ring, flexing as the crowd cheers. Commercial Break 28:30 - 45:00 Lou Albano, sans the Tongan Terrors again following their actions last week, is in the interview area with Jacques, Sr. as we come back from break. Jacques, Sr.: Mr. Albano, it seems like you never learn. Albano: Hah! Good one, Rougeau! I like when you make jokes, much better than that stuffy, condescending crap I usually get from you. Jacques, Sr. shakes his head. Albano: It is fun to mess with you, Rougeau. But I’m here to talk about how my monsters are going to win the Television Tag Titles on October 1st. And I you don’t need to take my word for it. Look at everything they’ve done, including destroying the Can Am Express last week! Nobody can touch them. Jacques, Sr.: I would like to point out that both Lafon and Brunzell had been involved in an intense tag team match to get themselves into the same match you’re talking about on the 1st. And you are conveniently forgetting how your “monsters” were matched blow for blow y the Can Am Express some weeks ago in that wild six man tag. Albano: *laughs* And I would like to point out that you are indeed full of good humor today, Jacques, Sr.! I’m starting to like our little talks. I’m not worried about the Can Am Express or Phil Lafon’s constant threats against me. Threats that I think you and I agree are completely out of line. Jacques, Sr.: *reluctantly* I hesitate to endorse attacking a non-wrestler. That is something that we need to talk about, Mr. - Albano: Wait, wait. Mr. Rougeau, we are having such a nice conversation, why woud you want to ruin it with- Albano runs off and the Can Am Express quickly appear on camera. Jacques, Sr. is as quick as ever to adapt. Jacques, Sr.: It is understandable that you two aren’t very happy with Mr. Albano, but I’m not sure I like you interrupting his interview time. Lafon: We’re sorry, Jacques, Sr., but after what we’ve been through at his hands the man needs to pay. Brunzell: His “monsters” need to pay more. Come October 1st we are going to show the world that they can be beaten! The Can Am Express storm off in the same direction Albano ran as the camera cuts to the ring. Armand Rougeau, Rene Goulet & Dave Kochen are heading to the ring as the crowd cheers loudly. Jacques, Sr. is back at the announce table to comment that he is glad Kochen is able to spend time in the ring with a respected veteran like Rene Goulet. Mr. Saito, Hurricane Kamiguchi & Stomehead Ishimoto come out to boos, mostly for Mr. Saito. The two masked men are put over by Jacques, Sr. as respected veterans from Japan. Armand Rougeau, Rene Goulet & Dave Kochen vs. Earth and Sky & Mr. Saito Goulet and Saito start the match out with matwork and some brawling. Armand and Kamiguchi have a few minutes of fast-paced action before both tag. Kochen and Ishimoto brawl a little after exchanging arm holds, with Ishimoto throwing a few chest slaps followed by a right hand that Kochen comes firing back from. The masked Japanese man blocks a punch and lands another right hand before putting on a headlock to control Kochen. The Japanese team works over Kochen’s neck for a while, cutting off several tag attempts. Kochen finally tags Rougeau, who is a house afire and clears the Japanese team from the ring. Kamiguchi is the victim of some quick tags by the faces, but Saito interference puts Kochen in jeopardy again. The teams trade some wild nearfalls before Ishimoto loads up his mask with something out of his trunks as referee Pierre Bertrand escorts Goulet and Armand out of the ring, hitting a headbutt on Kochen for the three count. Kochen has a small trickle of blood running down his forehead post-match. Stonehead Ishimoto over Dave Kochen by pinfall after loaded mask headbutt 12:30 Jacques, Sr. cannot believe what he just saw, dismayed at the use of an illegal object to get the pinfall. He is disgusted and hopes that isn’t the best that this team from Japan has to offer. Goldie Rogers is halfway to ringside as the ring clears, taunting a dazed Kochen and grinding his hips at women in the front row. Jacques, Sr. is glad that Armand Rougeau and Rene Goulet are with Kochen, keeping Rogers from attacking. Commercial Break & Upcoming Events 45:00 - 62:00 Jacques, Sr. talks again about how disgusted he is with Ishimoto and his tactics as The Fabulous Rougeau Brothers and Invader 1 get a HUGE pop entering the arena floor. Jacques, Sr. is happy to see Invader 1 teaming with his sons, he can be sure they will hold up their end of a match. The Rougeaus are wearing their Canadian International Tag Team Titles around their waists. Mad Dog Lefebvre, along with Eddie Creatchman, comes out of the curtain and the crowd starts booing. Jacques, Sr. is wondering where the Midnight Express is when suddenly he is interrupted and begins talking with someone. Jacques, Sr.: They are WHAT? Pause Jacques, Sr.: Run down and tell Jacques & Raymond, tell them where! A man in a shirt matching that worn by security at ringside is seen sprinting down to the ring and he talks to the Rougeaus. Jacques, Sr. is fuming at Eddie Creatchman on commentary, telling the fans there is a cameraman catching the action backstage and that next week they will find out what is happening as the Rougeaus run out of the ring to the back. Lefebvre and Invader 1, left alone in the ring, charge one another and start brawling as the crowd goes nuts. Canadian International Tag Team Champions The Fabulous Rougeau Brothers & Invader 1 vs. The Midnight Express & Mad Dog Lefebvre Lefebvre and Invader 1 continued the brawl until the Midnight Express ran out to the ring from the back and started triple teaming Invader 1 with Lefebvre. The Rougeaus emerged from the back a few minutes later, but Invader 1 was in bad shape. Jacques and Raymond cleared the ring, allowing Invader 1 to tag in to Raymond. Raymond and Jacques were on fire, taking out Lefebvre and Rose while tagging in and out, but jacques got caught with a few right hands from both Rose and Lefebvre on the apron while he was dealing with Condrey. Condrey hit a big backbreaker on Jacques and the heels triple teamed Rougeau, working over his back. Jacques made several fiery comebacks only to have the Midnight Express cut him off, finally tagging Raymond, who hit the ring on fire. The Midnights got off the apron quickly, leaving Lefebvre to take Raymond’s fury. The faces worked over Lefebvre, but Invader 1 was stillnot fully recovered and ended up taking a few good shots in an exchange with Lefebvre, forcing both to tag out. Rose fell quickly to Raymond’s right hands and narrowly avoided a sleeper by ducking under and turning it into a Raymond headlock. Raymond used a hiplock takedown to set up a few more right hands on the mat and tagged in Jacques. Jacques looked like he was ready to set up his Quebec crab hold, but Rose kicked him off and hit a powerslam after dropping down to set up a second rope reverse splash nearfall. Jacques was set up on the heel turnbuckle and Rose climbed up while Condrey and Lefebvre held him in place. Head referee Adrian Desbois kept Raymond and Invader 1 on their side of the ring despite their protests and Rose hit the second rope powerslam, Condrey tagging in as Rose picked Jacques up. Condrey bounced off the ropes with a big leg drop and covered Jacques for the three. Dennis Condrey over Jacques Rougeau by pinfall after a second rope powerslam/leg drop combination 14:30 Jacques, Sr. Is beside himself after the match as the Midnight Express, Creatchman and Lefebvre celebrate, the crowd booing them very loudly. He can’t believe that even Eddie Creatchman would stoop so low and reminds the fans to tune in next week and find out what happened before the match. He says that it cost his boys tonight, but it will cost the Midnight Express in the end. Creatchman is talking trash to the fans at ringside as his team pushes Jacques out of the ring to the floor where Raymond and Invader 1 help him to his feet. Lefebvre is barking as Creatchman and the Midnight Express exit the ring and start to the back. Creatchman starts jawing again with some fans while holding up the arms of his team as the show ends. Dark Matches Post-Show Gino Brito & Tony Parisi defeated the Can Am express when Lafon, the legal man, chased Lou Albano to the back after Albano had come halfway down the entrance aisle to massive boos.