ElHijodeGorgeousGeorge

I used the analogy because it's the same as what that poster is doing - imposing current standards onto something that had a different meaning, or at least multiple meanings, in the '70s and '80s. Exactly. People need to take historical context into account if they're going to argue about something. You can't just take 2016 standards and retroactively apply them to 1985. Characters in Twain's books owned slaves, which obviously isn't good, but you can't suddenly say Twain wrote them as villains when he didn't necessarily do that. It was a different time, with different standards and different perceptions. You can look back and say how backward those characters were by today's standards, but you can't say the author intended them to be bad people just because that's the way they'd be seen now. I understand not wanting to give Michael Hayes the benefit of the doubt because of Mark Henry and other incidents, but the fact is, the Rebel Flag outfits the Freebirds wore did not give them racist heat at the time. That was clearly not the intention back then. The sad reality is that we live in a world where anytime someone tries to discuss this kind of issue it just draws ignorant and overblown arguments. In other news, I'm actually digging this collections idea they're going with. Helps encapsulate careers or eras.

I continue to echo your sentiments, shoe. I felt like Zayn and Nakamura was hands down the match of the weekend yet I do agree that the Ospreay and Sabre Jr match was right up there.

Mostly like it'll be the Attitude Era guys on my ballot. Guys like Undertaker, Austin, and Bret Hart are probably my most notable high votes but that is what makes this thing so intriguing because it's all opinion based.

I feel like a huge deal of the criticism towards Hunter is the way he was booked and while sure, there is a huge percentage of his career as the boss' in-law I do think we need to recall that he was very capable before any of that ever happened. Triple H was already on the trajectory towards being a top guy going all the way back to late 1998 so I feel like a lot of his legacy would have gone unchanged until present day with his COO stuff. Also, I think there's a huge problem with people fixating on his political history and they pretty much ignore the fact that he worked pretty much everyone WWE had come through the door for about a decade and as was already mentioned, had some pretty fantastic matches for a good while. I have Triple H on my list and I'm not ashamed of that. In the last 15 years, Triple H has been a staple and has been very good for a big part of that. Don't worry, Arn Anderson is much ahead of him

This feels like a huge troll or something overall because I just can't help but feel like WWE is the one place where this awesome talent isn't going to do a bit of good. It all boils down to if the booking process is left alone with one concise vision, much unlike WWE as a whole, or if Vince gets his dirty hands on it. I feel like this is a big Triple H project though and if so, I have high hopes.

I feel like a huge percentage of fans are more excited for this show than they are Mania. Especially that fruitful 18-40 male demographic. I definitely think that Bayley has to stay in NXT just a little longer mainly to help rebuild a Women's Division that was badly dilapidated with the big "Divas Revolution" call up. I think the match with Asuka will blow everyone away and might be on par with the Sasha matches if all goes well. Joe vs Balor II is going to be amazing in and of itself and I'm very intrigued to see what they do in reference to the rumored debuts of Bullet Club. Joe is my dude so he's gotta leave with that pretty belt. Also, don't sleep on that tag title match because both American Alpha and The Revival are solid as hell. Also, Austin Aries in a WWE ring! Just a very smart and stacked show for the flagship of older WWE fans.

I wonder if the Reigns/HHH match bleeds into the big Hell in a Cell match. I'm beginning to wonder if this isn't just 1999 all over again and the finish of the match is a big "ahahah me and daddy were in on it all along" and Vince screws over Taker. If that is the case, this is going to be a really funky development. As was mentioned previously, I'm mainly excited because it is WRESTLEMANIA WEEKEND JESUS.

I'll be in the deepest, darkest Rural Arkansas with a college buddy watching as much wrestling as humanly possible. Mostly the interest is involving the NXT show tonight though for us and as has been mentioned, Mania is Mania so I watch in sordid interest to see if the biggest clusterfuck in history actually happens or if they can somehow salvage the show. Either way this is my favorite weekend of the year.

I think it is a combination of both that makes wrestling work. Wrestling works when things fit in a certain pattern, that is absolutely obvious and while it has been mentioned and I've noticed on my own that every company has their own "formula", they also find ways to re-wrap the package sort of speak. The formulas are what makes us really appreciate the rarities like Lesnar that just take a huge dump on traditional match building. Lesnar does that because honestly, if he worked like everyone else he wouldn't be effective. Let us recall how it worked out when he WAS treated as everyone else back in the early 2000's. Jayme put it perfectly I think because this isn't just wrestling that this kind of formula conversation is in reference to, it is literally any form of storytelling. As humans, for the most part we look for and expect this rhythm of events to placate what we watch for. If the baby face didn't win the huge blow off every time, then wrestling loses it's luster quite quickly.

I really loved this match and didn't expect to based on some similar reviews I'd heard that have been stated previously. I especially loved the nuances that both men used, especially Thesz' little short elbows while in a hold to really sell how fucking vicious he was. Rogers had incredibly poise and that really made me see where he got the reputation that he has had now for decades. I would agree that the match began to drag and actually I've yet to see the Verne/Thesz draw so I'll be on that soon.

Hey this stuff is super exciting though! I'm intrigued to see where everyone's outlook on what makes a great worker to everyone individually.

All I know is that the climate of WWE's business now is very bizarre because more than ever, they go against the grain so heavily. To me, if I'm a businessman in any shape or form and I see the kind of risk-reward analysis that we have with Roman's rise in the last 18 months or so I'm saying what in the blue fuck? While I agree that he's to some degree "over", there are a handful of other talents in my mind that could do as good or better in his role. Ambrose is the obvious name but hell, even a guy like Owens could make a huge difference in a few years when the face turn comes around. The biggest issue with WWE is building stars that are going to be around for the long haul. If you look at the years after the Attitude stuff, you see a huge power vacuum and hence the Triple H run we suffered through in the early Draft days. The most vital approach would be to go with what you have and run with it. That's what made Daniel Bryan's overness so incredibly special because everyone sort of knew he was the best regardless of if he's in a meaningless match or not.

Being someone that wasn't even alive when the show aired, what was this like as a kid fan to see such a weak build for Mania 4? I've always wondered because when you see the show without any context, it seemed like there was this grand road that led them to these matches, no matter how awful they may have been.

I think the Cruiser Tournament will have some fantastic matches but as has already been outlined, will amount to fuck-all. Vince doesn't give a shit and Triple H, while he might very well care, isn't stupid enough to make this into a godly moment knowing that it won't go anywhere. I think those stating this ends with La Sombra as the winner aren't all together wrong. As for the talk about aces, it's pretty clear Vince is obsessed with Roman Reigns regardless of his prowess. It's not about who is over or resonates anymore in WWE, it is about who appeals to the boss and sells enough merchandise to enough of the crowd to warrant the money spent on them. Sad, but true.

If they can give him the similar rub as they did Foley in the 99-00 role while jobbing, then I'm ok with it yet this is going to be tough to do in this day and age. While I agree that there's some obvious parallels between Foley and Ambrose, Ambrose is head and shoulders better in the ring.

I just couldn't get into this match for some reason and I think some of the lost spots were part of that. While I agree that the exchanges between Pentagon Jr. and Octagon Jr. had a great aura to them, I just felt like the overall structure of the match felt disjointed. I need to re-watch and see what I missed because generally your rankings are similar to my tastes.

To me, Ambrose has to end up on top because they've done so much half-assed booking with him that they need him to get some kind of momentum before they ruin the whole vibe he has going on. I also agree with the aforementioned statement that giving Ambrose the rub off Lesnar is a great way to have an insurance plan in the even that this Reigns "experiment" fails so they don't go to complete shit. I agree with some people though that the build with Triple H as the chicken shit heel has been much better than has been led on, the problem? Reigns doesn't resonate with enough of the audience that it'll make a huge difference.

So pretty much, the point of all of this is El Dandy is fucking awesome. Recently just got into his stuff pre-WCW and was blown away. Particularly his stuff with Angel Azteca, as well as pretty much any of his other matches from the very early 90's.