goodhelmet

For the Hall of Fame, I guess it depends what the critieria is. Benoit got in solely on "work". I guess the same argument was used to usher in Angle. Buddy Rose should get in on body of work alone.

Probably in the same place as the Jumbo phoned-in performances.

Who's the better wrestler... him or Terry?

Sounds like a topic for the Tropes thread.

Just curious, but with their new blood editing policy, how many of the matches above would be affected?

YEah, one of the things i have accepted over the years is that the Firgure-4 is not a move that requires someone to do a lot of leg prep on in order to be a game ender.

I am going to combine this with the original thread. No need to have two. As for your quote, that is down right fucked-up.

OK, guys, if you want the disc, Paypal as PWO3 $5.00 (add 2.50 if overseas) Remember, the whole idea behind this set (as opposed tp the Schneider and NAylor comps) is to talk about each match. We are digging the hell of the recent discussion here so we would like to hear your thoughts, especially if you are just a lurker.

Slowly working through the NJ set, at least in the 80s, there isn't one defined NJ style. Each wrestler may have a style but not the promotion as a whole.

That post by Loss may be the single most effective argument for Ric Flair that I have ever read on the net. Much better than any Meltzer comment. Much better than any argument I have ever heard against Ric Flair. Awesome.

Ok, reading Naylor's post at DVDVR made me go WHOA. I have seen tons of Flair in this 80s project, and I still don't have a grasp of the Flair Formula that everyone claims is Flair-by-the-numbers. Maybe I am missing something but I don't think Flair has this generic match in his head. Sometimes he has good matches and sometimes bad but not because of any specific pattern. After watching matches for the 80s project, there are so many good Flair matches to grab onto. If you are going to reference matches, be specific. I am trying to get a grasp of this formula that I have not actually seen in watching the matches.

This will be released this week. Stay tuned.

I am in a Ramones mood... "Flair's living on a Chinese Rock Everything is in the Pawn Shop"

My buddy Gene is supposed to be making a Bret Hart comp. If he ever completes it, I'll be sure to put this theory to the test. However, if I have to make a comp then I will.

I don't see what the big deal is... I guess with the exception of the elbowdrop, it all leads to softening up the back to the Sharpshooter. Sounds more logical to carry those out since it has been an effective way for him to finish off opponents. Maybe the problem is that he tries to pin the opponent after each of the moves when none of them has ever resulted in a pinfall.

I just looked over John's WCW list, and while I would probably rank them differently, I have seen all of those matches in the last couple of years and they are all still worth seeking out. The list would probably be completely different now with the sheer amount of TV out there but it would be interesting to check out. As for SK's list.... I wonder if he has ever actually seen the Liger-Pillman handheld match.

Refresh my memory... what are the five moves of doom? Can someone list them? Also, I am trying to think of some stables across the years and I think that the only real ingredient you need is someone who can work the microphone. The First Family had Jimmy Hart. 1980s Horsemen had all of them. NWO had the Outsiders and Hogan. Dangerous Alliance had Paul E. DX were incredibly effective on the mic. The whole purpose of the mic work is to put over the group.

Portland is one of the territories we are working on in the DVDVR project and I had the pleasure of nominating matches from. Here are some of the matches you guys should check out... Buddy Rose vs. Rick Martel (2/3 falls) (4/26/80) - Buddy is wearing a mask/wig combo for the match. 1st fall has some nice legwork from Buddy. Awesome spot where MArtle gives Buddy an atomic drop but his leg is damaged from all of the legwork. This allows Buddy to work on the leg some more and get the easy submission. This first fall was pretty good almost all due to Buddy. 2nd fall sees Martel still selling the leg and Buddy trying to destroy it. Buddy gets posted and the tide turns. Martel in turn decides to post Buddy's back and work on his back and eventually win the 2nd fall with the Boston Crab. I love it when wrestlers work the body parts and it means something. 3rd fall and Martel continues too work on the back. I love it when Buddy went to slam Martel but couldn't complete the slam because his back was too injured. Early in the fall, Martel rips off Buddy's wig and Buddy is too embarassed to continue and runs to the back giving Martel the countout win. This match was awesome and is a slam-dunk nomination and a contender for any set you want to put it on. Buddy Rose vs. Butch Miller (2/3 Falls) (6/7/80) - Miller is avenging his partner. Rose is fighting the match under protest so he stalls and tries o avoid Miller the first few minutes. When Miller finally gets a hold of him, he goes on the attack and just beats the shit out of him and after three jumping elbows, he gets the easy pin. This is excellent booking as Miller just dismantles Rose. The 2nd fall was back and forth and Rose gets the the pin using the ropes for leverage. 3rd fall is short but wild as it goes to the outside and Rose posts Miller and gets the blood flowing. The match ends in a countout but Rose and Miller keep brawling in and out of the ring. Another nomination. Buddy Rose, Ed Wiskowski & Fidel Cortez vs. Butch Miller, Luke Williams & Lord Jonathan Boyd (2/3 Falls) (7/19/80) - The first fall finds the Sheeps working over the arms of Cortez and then Wiskowski. The big spot had Ed shoot into the ropes and knock Buddy off the apron. When the heels gain control, Jonathan Boyd takes a great bump off a rope choke. When he regains control, Boyd ends it with a flying knee drop on Wiskowski. The 2nd fall has Miller playing FIP and Rose finally comes into the match when the heels are firmly in control. The hot tag is amde to Boyd who bounces Buddy around in and out of the ring. Luke Williams is tagged in, misses the back elbow and is put down with a sleeper. After the fall, while the referee is distracted, the heels take turns pounding Williams who still isn't awake from the sleeper. One of the things I really like about the Portland 2/3 Falls matches is that the guys who ended the last fall have to be the ones to start the next fall so Williams continues the match as FIP. The 3rd fall ends with a shmoz as Rose rolls Miller up for the pin while holding the tights. I don't think this is the best match i have seen today but it is worth a watch. Boyd was really on fire here and Buddy was great as usual, even when he wasn't the legal man, always keeping things interested on the outside. Nomination. Buddy Rose & Ed Wiskowski vs. Roddy Piper & Rick Martel (2/3 Falls) (for vacant tag titles) (8/2/80) - Damn, Buddy Rose does more on the outside of the ring than most people do inside. 1st fall has Piper doing the majority of the work and when the heels are in control, they are working over his injured ribs and back. When Martel comes in, he lights the heels up and disposes of Rose with the huracanrana pin. 2nd fall has Martel in control until a missed dropkick. Ed & Buddy hen proceed to destroy Martel's back. Rose is doing some great moves finding new ways to work on Martel's back including a nice backbreaker to get the 2nd fall. With nearly all Portland tags, the wiiners of the last fall continue to do what worked in the last fall, which is working over Martel's back in this instance. I am only 4 discs into the Portland footage but DAMN if it isn't the most logical and well-worked matches I have seen even if guys who are considered limited like Piper and the Sheepherders. Buddy Rose is also one of the Top 5 heels of the 80s right up there with Tully blanchard and Ted Dibiase. back to the match, Piper gets the hot tag but Buddy and Ed do a cool double team over. Ed slingshots Piper into Rose who proceeds to backdrop him out of the ring. Fucking sweet. This causes the action to spill out of the ring and the match ends in a no-contest but the wrestlers continue to brawl anyway. In the end, each team claims one of the tag titles and they continue to brawl in the post-match interview. Another badass Portland tag!!! Larry & Curt Hennig vs. Buddy Rose & Rip Oliver (2/3 falls) (4/3/82) - I had reservations about this match because Larry is old as hell and Curt is green. However, when you look at the Axe, he looks like the strongest guy in there despite his age. He quickly disposes of Oliver after an Axe Bomber and elbow drop in the first fall. Second fall starts off with Larry abusing Buddy's hand and Rose's selling and facial expressions are great. Curt's ribs are taped and he looks really skinny. Curt stays in control until Oliver catches him off the ropes with a knee to the ribs which makes Curt your FIP. The heels wortk over Curt's ribs which is the obvious thing to do and use some nice offense to make him cry out in pain. One spot has Oliver slingshot Curt to the ropes, whip back and the ribs land on Oliver's knees in a spot I think I have seen Goldust use. Larry tries to save his kid but he is eventually pinned after Oliver rammed Curt's ribs into the ringpost and dumps him back inside. Third fall continues where it lef toff in the 2nd. This is the thing I love about these POrtland matches. If a story from an earlier fall can carry on effectively, they run with it instead of doing illogical things. Larry eventually comes in and cleans house, dishing out punishment and laying in the strikes. THere weren't too many pulled punches in this round. I guess to put over the devastating effect of the Axe Bomber, Rose blades after a Bomber sends him flying out of the ring. I guess the Axe was blowing up because he tags Curt back in sooner than he should have been. Curt takes control, and is also still selling the ribs which is a nice touch. OLiver ends up bringing in a chair, using it on Curt's ribs and getting the DQ. Man, it is difficult to omit almost any Buddy Rose match becasue the guy is that good. He made green Curt and over-the-hill LArry look like a million bucks. Another nomination. Buddy Rose vs. Matt Borne (2/3 falls) (Lumberjack Match) (6/12/82) - Rose is complaining early on about having to wrestle on television when he thought it would be an arena match. As a lumbrjack math, there are about 4 guys out there to serve as "guards". There is confusion about the match as the ring announcer said it was No Disqualification but the announcer said regular rules apply. Who knows but they start out wild enough as Borne is pounding away on Rose. Rose ends up busting Borne open and working on the cut. Later on, Rose grabs a chair and nails Rose with it to bust him open. Seriously, the first fall might be enough of a nomination on its own. Borne punches Rose in the head and gets the pin after a flurry of punches. Rose was laid out and did not leave the ring after the fall. The 2nd fall continues in the same vein as the 1st until Rose gives Borne a low-blow to turn the tide. The ref claims it was to the stomach but to drive the point home, Buddy gets Borne in a wheelbarrow position and kicks him right in the crotch. He then does some running knee lifts, connecting with more "close calls" on each knee lift. Shit, this match is brutal. And after Rose appears to have the upper hand, Borne lands a low blow of his own. Borne goes for the punches again but gets flipped over in a sunset flip position and pinned. Borne wastes no time in the 3rd fall and goes o town on the cut including a SWEET double knee lift to the head. I don't know where he got it from but Buddy has a chain wrapped around his hand and knocks Borne the fuck out for the pin. OK, nevermind because Borne revives about ten seconds later. Borne's post-match interview sets up a chain match between the two. I think I remember seeing it listed on Walburton's Portland list so maybe that is something we can pursue. Anyway, this matchis a SLAM DUNK NOMINATION. Buddy Rose vs. Chris Adams (2/3 falls) (2/26/83) - By this point, it is getting redundant but Buddy Rose is so frigging great. Pay attention to the slap exhange and how well Buddy plays up the whole thing. Seriously, watch him as Adams is working on an arm wrench and watch Buddy selling and his facial expressions and his mannerisms. He makes the most basic shit look painful or high-end. Adams ends up taking the first fall after a superkick and a tombstone piledriver. Adams slows it down in the 2nd fall, working a headlock. This makes perfect sense after pounding Buddy's neck with the piledriver. Buddy eventually takes control but after a whip to the corner, an Adams cross-body is reversed into a pin for Buddy. The third fall is full of near falls and missed opportunities. This is the best fall by far with the crowd worked into a frenzy. Rose ends up winning the match by countout after Adams hit a pescado but Rose made it into the ring first becasue Adams injured his leg. A definite nomination.

Ya know, I think today is the real "golden age" of the internet wrestling community. Maybe not with the current product but with the availability of wrestling. I am sure those that were around remember the era fondly, and even I like to hear the stories and read the threads, but this is the time to be a wrestling fan IF you actually want to see a ton of wrestling at an affordable price. It used to be you would read about matches but they were a pain in the ass to acquire. Now, it is easy as pie to find the matches and from all sorts of promotions. I am loving wrestling right now and love being apart of the various message boards which are far superior to the old RSPW group and out-of-date websites.

Added to my shopping cart.

Pretty much everything except the main lived up to my expectations. JBL-Rey was dissapointing since these two have had killer ten minute matches but it fits and I am not complaining. Jericho is a God. The three-way was fun, fun, fun... much better than the 3-ways from the past few years. The main was an ok match with a shit finish but not the type of match that this show needed.