ohtani's jacket

If anybody can re-up the Tajiri match that's one I'd really like to see. Cheers.

Hiroshi Hase vs. Ricky Fuyuki (9/12/93) This was joined in progress. Hase was wearing a large bandage on his forehead, so of course Fuyuki tore it off. Hase bled as soon as it was torn off, and what a sickening bladejob it was. Blood was pooling on the mat and his face and body were covered in it. It was all over his tights and knee-pads, and all over Fuyuki as well. Slow, methodical beatdown as you'd expect from a bout where one guy's split open. Fuyuki taunted Hase with a Rick Rude swivel, which the commentators amusing called "American style." Match was well paced for a bout of this ilk, and Hase sold well. Didn't love the Giant Swing or Hase prancing about trying to get his adrenaline flowing, but his comeback was believable and he managed to rally without abusing the ura nage. That scored extra points in my book. Worth the price of admission so long as you realise it's the wrestling equivalent of a one act play.

According to the newspaper reports, he was supposed to play a gig the night he died and when he didn't show up the owner of the place he was supposed to play at went to check on him. Hayabusa was living by himself and the owner found him dead in bed. That was at 2:00 a.m. on the 4th and he had died at noon on the 3rd. His agency said he showed no symptoms of ill health and there hadn't been any warning signs.

Masahiro Chono vs. Hiroshi Hase (12/11/92) Watching these two is a bit like watching Chono vs. Muto in that no matter how technically proficient their matches are, I just don't care about them. The only thing I'll say about Hase's work here is that I thought his selling was crap. Watch the finishing sequence where both of them are trying to hit the killer blow and Hase does his poor man punch drunk selling on defense then hits a ura nage and double fist pumps. He does the same sequence over and over -- punch drunk then double fist pumping. The thing is, his selling is like that in every match. He'll sell his opponent's offense and a beat later he's appealing to the crowd. To me, the notion that he's a great seller is completely false and it just seems like there's been so many better workers in Japanese history than Hase.

Well, at least we saved Grey, which is the most important thing, but I still think that intangibles rating is unfair. Grey is one of the most naturally likable wrestlers ever. He comes across as the ultimate do-gooder without being a complete turn off. How many babyfaces can you say that about? To me that takes as much x-factor as the most hated of heels because believe me, there were plenty of guys on WoS whose gimmick was essentially that they were a nice bloke and few of them had Grey's lasting appeal. And when he was pissed, he could fire up like the best of them. He was Tito Santana when it came to babyface outrage. That skill alone should give him a boost. Grey for president! These are listed under ability in your first post: + 1 ability to carry lesser opponents + 1 ability to adapt to opponent's style Have you ditched them since? Not sure if matters, or how you'd feel about it, but the British guys also toured far out places like Africa, India and the Middle East. Does that count as getting over in other territories?

His great matches rating is too low along with his variety ranking. And his peak didn't end in '85. He had a lot of great stuff in '86 and was still good in '87 and '88. Didn't you originally add a +1 for carrying a lesser opponent? Breaks and Grey deserve a point for.that

That rating for Grey is mental. How can he have such a lower rating than Breaks or Saint when he had a greater number of good matches than them against a wider variety of opponents? Why is his intangibles rating only 2?

As Yamada he was a pretty good worker from around '86 onwards. Certainly better than when he first adopted the costume in '89. People remember the Sano matches, but that transition period was ugly. So you might start his peak earlier and finish it in '04.

Breaks' peak on tape is from '72-84 if you consider the last year he had a classic match the final year of his peak. Physically, he started packing on the weight earlier than that. The true extent of his peak probably extends back into the 60s and his absolute prime is likely the majority of the 70s. Saint is more problematic. He jumps to All-Star in '82 and reappears on TV when Dixon starts getting a share of the time slot. He has an excellent match with Robbie Brookside in '87 and looks good in the German tournaments. I'm tempted to argue his peak was closer to '74-87 or so. I guess that doesn't really effect your rankings much. Breaks had only a handful of tags air in his long television career. The one I can remember seeing was incomplete and not that good. He likely worked tags in the halls, but I don't recall him being part of a regular tag team let alone a famous one. Saint had a regular team with Best called The Elite and possibly with others. As for the ability category, if you consider wager matches gimmick bouts then Breaks had plenty of those. 100 pounds a round, starting with a one fall advantage, that sort of thing.

Yeah I messed that up when nominating him because for some reason I always get it in my head that that's how his name should be. On the subject of Japanese names, I know this thread isn't for this but, why do we say Ashura Hara and Fujita Jr Hayato but reverse the name order on almost everyone else's names? Hara was his family name, so that's reversed. Fujita "Jr" Hayato is the ring name Fujita uses even in Japanese.

Why do Johnny Saint and Breaks' primes start in '72 and extend to '85? What were either of them doing in '85 that mattered? How on earth does Breaks get a point for tag work?

His British & European stuff doesn't add much to his case. The crux of the Regal argument is made up of his early WCW run up until the drugs took their effect and his later WWE work. That doesn't sound like a great body of work on the surface, but with Regal each piece of work seems like it's worth evaluating, which is surely indicative of an artist.

I mean that, too. Of course it's possible to be critical of his work. I've been critical of it at times, but to not like him as a worker is surprising.

Regal strikes me as one of the most likable guys in all of wrestling. Why wouldn't anyone like Regal? I don't get it.

I hear ya, Jimmy. I was the biggest Owen mark ever growing up, and I still love his heel turn as well as his return after Montreal, but pre-Rocket pimped Owen? Forget about it.

Hiroshi Hase and Kensuke Sasaki vs. Shiro Koshinaka and Takayuki Iizuka (12/13/90) This was a decent match which finished stronger than it started (always preferable.) It never reached any great heights but settled into a nice groove. I preferred Sasaki and Iizuka in their roles compared to Hase and Koshinaka, but the younger guys were set up to be the workhorses and benefit from that experience. Still, i expected a bit more sizzle when the veterans tagged in. Hase's swagger was alright, but his work wasn't anything special. Sasaki impressed me more, which is interesting. He was kind of a one-dimensional power wrestler, and seemed like a bit of a jock, but I'll be damned if he didn't hit people hard and that judo throw of his (the arm drag finisher) looked like it should have separated dude's shoulders. Watching Hase call the shots, it seemed clear that Sasaki needed to be led by the nose in more than just kayfabe terms, but I thought he was responsible for the best parts of the bout. Iizuka was also really good, though it was clear he was there to knuckle down and receive an education and wasn't a strong worker yet. He could have used a better general than Koshinaka, but a promotion has got to make use of its resources. The one thing you can be guaranteed in Japanese tags is a typically well laid out finish and this was no exception. The match didn't outstay its welcome by being 40 minutes long and was a tidy three to three-and-a-half stars or so.

For what it's worth, I think the correct spelling of Alan Sarjeant is actually Sargeant. That's how it was spelt in the wrestling mags.

I would say that Kawada was better at working holds than Jumbo, Misawa or Kobashi, but not working holds that keep Parv awake.

Because This Is Workrate was a pretty prolific poster and talked about him constantly. I totally forgot about that.

Is that Amano match online? She had a quietly great career, which impresses the crap out of me because she should have faded away when JWP semi-folded. I would be really surprised if workers like Yagi, Yoshida or Hyuga got much of a look in, though.

The best Aguayo match we have on tape is the 1986 hair match with Chicana, which IMO is one of the greatest lucha matches of all-time. I know a lot of people like their early 90s cage match, but I thought it was weak. I liked the spectacle of Perro vs. Mascara Ano 2000 at the first Triplemania. I also liked the 1992 Chicana/Aguayo match from CMLL. Aside from that, I think you have to scratch around a bit. There's the Gran Hamada matches from the original UWF (including the handheld one), some stuff from Los Angeles and New Japan Classics, and the UWA tag with Babe Face that was on the DVDVR lucha set. A Santo vs. Perro match is floating around out there too. I think it's from the early 00s. I know Noodles and I loved the Perro vs. Universo 2000 apuesta match. I wish I'd bothered to watch the recent footage from Juarez that was pulled.

Emilio is a really disappointing singles match worker. It's not that his singles matches are bad as such, they're just slight and feel too short. He's one of the all-time great trios worker, though. I could hear an argument for him being a better trios worker than Fuerza but it's a bit like choosing between your kids. I agree with cad above that Fuerza was better at being the leader of the team and I think that's because his star shone brighter. Emilio was like the ultimate number two guy. If I were the lead rudo, Emilio would be the first guy I'd want on my team.

fwiw, I think it's actually Dalbir Singh. They mistyped it on television all the time and Brian Crabtree would constantly mispronounce his name. Anyway, Singh swings between great stuff with Roach/Rudge/Steele/Roberts to some of the most insanely boring stuff you'll ever see. His match with Bret Hart is a contender for the most boring WoS bout of all-time, IMO. I know the poster here, PeteF3, thinks he is a Randy Orton-esque black hole when it comes to charisma and called him the most boring of the WoS workers. I liked him enough that I sought out everything he has on tape. From memory, his run as champ was a bit of a disappointment and he had weight issues toward the end of his TV run, but he's a guy who had plenty of good matches. Check out the Regal bout from Sun City to see him working outside of the UK.

The esteemed John Lister always says Joint Promotions' plan was to have Arion drop his fake NWA World Heavyweight title to Big Daddy, but Arion balked at jobbing to Daddy and put over Bridges instead.

Maybe a bit of a cheeky comment, but it's amusing to me that a guy in an anime costume strikes you as more of a wrestler than a guy in black trunks. Anyway, I'm the complete opposite. I think Liger has a ton of annoying tendencies and gets the same free ride that Panther does. All of the flaws people point out in juniors wrestling are inherent flaws in Liger as well yet people act as though he was great in spite of those shackles. That's when they'e not giving him praise for orchestrating the whole damn mess and being the architect of a style they think is flawed. Wrestlers basically fall into two categories for me -- guys who I want to watch everything they've ever done and guys I only want to watch if it's against the right opponent -- and Liger falls squarely into the second category. I love watching his matches against Ohtani, for example, but I don't have any interest in watching Liger carry anybody. I think he's a good worker, and I'm not beyond enjoying him, but Casas at his best was otherworldly. Santo vs. Liger is probably fairer comparison, or Rey vs. Liger, because of the mask, but 90s Casas, which is the only Casas I'm really connected to, was actually a pretty tight worker. I wish it was still on YouTube because I never got a chance to write about it, but he made a green Eddy Guerrero look a million bucks in Juarez through grappling not bumping and stooging. To me that's an excellent wrestler. I do love Liger's palm strikes, though. They're fantastic. He's overrated on the mat and I don't think his selling is as wonderful as others do. Great execution but iffy match structure at times. I would consider him top 50 material at best whereas Casas would be top 20.