ohtani's jacket

It still seems a bit random to me. I also think it's odd that you don't want certain wrestlers to have too many points. Shouldn't you run guys through system and see where they end up instead of trying to manipulate things so that it fits your expectations, or am I missing the point of all this? Are you trying to quantify how you already see workers or is it an experiment?

Ric Flair vs. Jimmy Garvin, 7/11/87 This is such a bad Flair match. Even clipped it stinks. The ending is super heated, though, with Garvin's knee blowing out and Flair using the ropes to force him to submit. The fan trying to climb the cage makes it even more exciting. Ric Flair's mannequin promo, WCW, 7/18/87 One of the worst promos of Flair's career. Possibly more embarrassing than those old man promos where he'd take his clothes off. It might have been okay if he hadn't made out with the mannequin, but that was damn near a Jump The Shark moment for 80s Flair. Ric Flair's date w/ Precious, WCW, 7/25/87 This is just terrible. It's like Russo went back in time and booked an episode of World Championship Wrestling. Dillon wants to hide in a closet and watch Flair fuck Precious? Flair tries to mack it with Ronnie Garvin in drag? Another low point in Flair's career. Ric Flair promo, Pro, 8/8/87 Stock standard Flair promo. The glory days of '85-86 are far behind us. Ric Flair vs. Ronnie Garvin, Pro, 8/15/87 Flair makes short work of Rocky King and takes his frustrations out on him by holding on to the ropes and refusing to release the figure four. Garvin hits the ring, and hot diggity damn, the angles and promos might be turning to shit, but Garvin can still dish out a beating. The Horsemen hit the ring and Garvin manages to fight off all four before they over power him. The faces are predictably late, but Garvin gets his hand raised in victory, and that's a pretty good way to end disc three.

Ric Flair vs. Ronnie Garvin, 4/27/86 This is a fuller length version of the bout Mr. Rare Handheld uploader says is from 1/19/86. He got the date wrong on that, but the bout itself is the most fun I've had watching Garvin and Flair since the early studio bouts. It's a really typical Flair bout -- the kind you either love or hate -- but I don't watch a lot of Flair these days and this was the kind of arena match I was looking to sink my teeth into. Both guys took a beating and were hobbling about on bad wheels. The fatigue at the end was immense. Flair was bleeding. Garvin was blowing hard. The nearfalls were hot and the selling was great. You knew it would end on a piece of BS, but both guys looked like they'd been in a war and to me that was a fitting blow off to their '85-86 stuff. Fast forward a year and brother Jimmy is on the scene. Ric Flair & Lex Luger vs. Ronnie & Jimmy Garvin, WCW, 6/27/87 Red hot TV match that even J Garvin and Luger couldn't bungle. Garvin absolutely laid into Flair. I'm beginning to wonder if Garvin vs. Flair isn't a better TV feud than an arena one as the intensity skyrockets in front of the TV cameras and they go at it hammer and tong. The match loses its shape as the workers tire and then all the bullshit with Precious starts, but to start with the bout was electric. Jimmy Garvin challenging Ric Flair, WCW, 6/27/87 Pretty decent promo from Garvin challenging Flair to a cage match in Greensboro during the Great American Bash tour. They shoot the entire thing in close-up and you can see the beads of sweat on Garvin's brow. J.J. Dillon accepts Jimmy Garvin's challenge, WCW, 6/27/87 Perfunctory segment with J.J. and the ever wooden Jim Crockett Jr. I'm sure everyone knows the wager as it's a pretty famous angle, but Garvin has to put up the robe he stole from Flair and a date with Precious. Ronnie & Jimmy Garvin promo, WCW, 7/11/87 Knowing what's coming you can't help but watch promos like these and feel sorry for these poor fools. Like lambs to the slaughter.

I liked how the 1993 Champion Carnival final was worked as a slugfest. There's some serious suspension of disbelief needed when watching Hansen vs. Misawa. You have to buy that Misawa is a tougher opponent for Hansen than anyone else and that his bionic elbow hurts Hansen more than any other strike. At least by working a slugfest there was an accumulative effect to all those strikes. The lariat vs. elbow collision was a nice spot and Hansen's selling was money. Whoever laid out the finishing stretches to these matches didn't do as good a job as usual as Misawa vs. Hansen matches aren't half as dramatic as a typical Hansen bout; but Stan in Peril was nicely done, the not-quite-underdog-ish victory was well earned, the "fuck yes!" celebration a classic bit of lipreading material, and the sling made out of streamers a nice post-match touch. Not too many mentions of Misawa there. He was solid in this, but IMO he'd reach a whole 'nother level in 1994.

Considering Bret and Shawn didn't work that well together, I don't see how it should be a point in Bret's favour for versatility. The Lawler match in '93 involved Doink whom you haven't listed and is offset by how awful their "Kiss My Foot" match was. The Brain Busters match was good, but a throw away bout and not a series like Brain Busters vs. The Rockers and not really proof that Bret matched up particularly well with Arn and Tully. There may be some underrated Islanders stuff out there, but with all due respect to Kelly and Martin a single podcast is not really a huge platform for memorable matches. Likewise, I don't think Bret vs. Tiger Mask is a well-remembered match.

He's not necessarily that high. I wouldn't list Fujinami, the Brain Busters, the Islanders, Lawler or Michaels. I'm not sure which Fujinami match you're referring to. Bret did work well with a large variety of opponents in the WWF, though.. It's a strength of his. I forgot about the Savage match too.

The Backlund match I was referring to was the Superstars match not the Survivor Series one. Davey Boy Smith being there as one of the Bulldogs makes no sense whatsoever. It's not my criteria , but I'd list him twice. I think you're referring to the Diesel title change not any title change with Undertaker. To me Survivor Series '95 was the epitome of "memorable" and that wasn't their only memorable match together. I don't really get where you're coming from on this when you load up your favorites with memorable opponents. The 123 Kid RAW match isn't memorable? I'd warrant it's more memorable than Bret's bouts with DiBiase. What's he doing there? What about the jdw favourite against Savage? The Steamboat match people love?

I quite liked the 8/92 Triple Crown match. It was a nice blend of an older, more traditional build mixed with slightly more modern elements, and decidedly different from anything Hansen was doing with the other kids. Whoever raised the point about Hansen's matches against Misawa being deliberately different than against Kawada or Kobashi is spot on. The only thing I didn't love was the finish. Misawa knocking Hsnsen out with his elbow is a bit of a hard sell, but I really wish Misawa hadn't gone down afterward and teased the double knockout and rolled him over straight away or fallen on top of him after hitting the elbow. Everybody "feels" finishing stretches differently, but to me the pause before rolling him over was a false note. I can understand trying to milk the moment for all it's worth, but I would have bought the knock out blow more if Hansen hadn't stayed down for so long.

How come you don't include the 123 Kid or Backlund for Bret? Or Bulldog, Undertaker, Yokozuna or Diesel? Hakushi and Jean-Pierre Laffite also spring to mind as examples of his versatility.

I quite liked the 8/92 Triple Crown match. It was a nice blend of an older, more traditional build mixed with slightly more modern elements, and decidedly different from anything Hansen was doing with the other kids. Whoever raised the point about Hansen's matches against Misawa being deliberately different than against Kawada or Kobashi is spot on. The only thing I didn't love was the finish. Misawa knocking Hsnsen out with his elbow is a bit of a hard sell, but I really wish Misawa hadn't gone down afterward and teased the double knockout and rolled him over straight away or fallen on top of him after hitting the elbow. Everybody "feels" finishing stretches differently, but to me the pause before rolling him over was a false note. I can understand trying to milk the moment for all it's worth, but I would have bought the knock out blow more if Hansen hadn't stayed down for so long.

I thought I'd approach the Misawa/Hansen series with as open a mind as I can muster, but y'know the JIP 1991 bout is pretty good. It's impossible to know how good it was in its entirety, but the dynamic was way better than I was expecting and even the lariat spot felt fresh.

The 1994 Champion Carnival bout against Hansen is a pretty good watch, but I can't help but feel something is missing from their rivalry much like with the Hansen/Tenryu series, Not sure why it doesn't grab me as it seems like the perfect match-up on paper, but I think it's because it doesn't really progress over the four or five year period it was run.

Felt like watching a Robinson/Jumbo match and watched the Miami one. Now there's a mistake. One thing I can't work out is why Jumbo was so mediocre on the mat. Surely, a guy with amateur credentials like his should he a bit better than he was.

There's a Fujinami vs. Canek match on YouTube that the uploader says is from '78, but I think is actually from '79. It's quite different from the typical Fujinami match in that it's less mat driven and more character based. There's a stronger heel/face dynamic than other Fujinami matches from the 70s and it feels more stereotypical in terms of native vs. foreigner bouts. It's not the best Canek I've seen, but not too shabby either.

I didn't realise Hansen and Kobashi had a match in 1990 or maybe I watched it and don't remember. In any event, even in 1990 it seems clear that Hansen vs, Kobashi is the best version of Stan vs. the kids. I'm not sure what made Kobashi Hansen's best opponent, but it would be interesting to theorise about.

THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 45 Fit Finlay vs. Kung Fu (Eurosport circa 1989) I can't think of a more mediocre match-up in all of European wrestling than Finlay vs. Kung Fu. It doesn't matter whether it's in Joint Promotions, All-Star, Reslo or EWF, it's mediocre every time. Fit Finlay/Skull Murphy vs. Johnny Wilson/Don Eagle (8/27/86) As down as I am on this period of Finlay's career, it's a testament to his ability as a worker that he was able to make Eagle look this good. I'm sure the promoters saw this and thought there was money in Eagle. Even Walton was getting excited about him. He ended up being a flash in the pan and Walton was beyond disappointed the next time he saw him. Entertaining tag match with Wilson being typically solid and the Riot Squad still the best in the business. Battle Royal (11/3/82) This was a Battle Royal full of small guys. Walton had such a hard time calling it. It came down to Alan Dennison, Black Jack Mulligan and Bobby Barnes, and I thought for all money that Dennison would win. Barnes had him half way over the top and Dennison was using all his strength to stop from going over. "Well, there's the tease," I thought. But hot damn it, Barnes actually won! And he got a laurel wreath and a winner's sash to boot. King of the Ring 1982. Eat your heart out, Owen Hart. Barnes' victory pose was worth the five minutes alone. God I love Bobby Barnes. Dave Morgan vs. Dave Taylor (Eurosport circa 1989) This was a decent little match. Taylor was playing heel, which he wasn't very good at, but the in-ring work was solid and it's always a pleasure to see Dave Morgan work. MC John Harris was the commentator for these early Eurosport matches and thinks everything is awfully pleasant. Flesh Gordon vs. Dick Murdock (Eurosport circa 1989) I finally got around to the infamous Dick Murdoch match. Murdock looks like the French wrestler Alain Lesage, but I don't know how to confirm that and I'm sure as hell not going to the trouble on Christmas Day. His valet is carrying a rather sedated snake. John Harris complete ignores the fact that Gordon's valets have their tits out. That's almost better than the fact that Gordon's valets have their tits out. Gordon is one of the worst workers you'll ever see but this wasn't exactly terrible. I swear Harris called him "Flash" Gordon the entire time. Definitely something everybody should see. Giant Haystacks vs. Franz van Buyten (Eurosport circa 1991) So, the great Franz van Buyten has to work with Haystacks on one of those nights where Haystacks felt sluggish. At least he did what everyone should have done and attacked him with a chair. Orig Williams claimed Haystacks was off to the States to wrestle Hogan. Y'know, there's a part of me that wants to see that. Not a very big part, but I wanna see it. More than I wanna see van Buyten get the shaft like this.

Merry Christmas one and all. Ric Flair vs. Ronnie Garvin, 3/31/86 Cage match from the Omni. I liked this a hell of a lot more than the 3/9 match. Flair put a hurting on Garvin to start with, which was something he didn't do enough of in the 3/9 bout. Some Flair fan in the crowd kept calling for a body bag and a stretcher and "whooing" every time Flair took Garvin to school. Right on cue, Garvin hulked up, or did a Lawler, take your pick. Flair was whipped from pillar to post and both guys juiced. Twice Ric tried escaping over the top of the cage and twice there was a full moon. I'm not sure why Ric told the girls he'd wear jeans when folks saw his ass in every match. The match went into a bit of a lull after they'd finished hurling each other into the cage, and the finishing stretch wasn't much to write home about, but the fans got more bang for their buck than at the beginning of the month. Ronnie Garvin promo, WWW, 4/26/86 These Garvin promos keep getting worse. He's trying to cut a promo about Tully and Arn breaking his hand and Crockett makes him comment on footage of Flair breaking Morton's nose. That throws him off and when he gets back on track he mangles some analogy to the US dropping bombs on Libya. Ric Flair promo, WWW, 4/26/86 This is mostly Flair cutting a promo on Morton, but he mentions Garvin's earlier promo and says he's right about one thing and that's that Regan and the Horsemen and the heroes America needs right now. Ronnie Garvin vs. Tully Blanchard, WWW, 5/3/86 One of my all-time favourite matches. This has to be Garvin's career match. I can't imagine he had a better performance than this in regard to selling and psychology. Tully is the perfect foil as he basically wrestles exactly like Flair but the bout isn't about him like it would be with Flair. Dusty's presence adds so much on commentary and the Dusty finish is better with him standing there in his cowboy hat while Crockett goes mental about the quarters. Love this bout. Garvin does a fantastic job putting over the injury and working hurt. Tully is Tully and awesome. If he'd had more years like '85 and '86 the sky would be the limit for GWE polls. All-time great match. And that's the end of disc two, but here's a little something that wasn't on the discs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujfew2t8Sbk Not the complete match, but shot from a much better ringside angle than the March stuff. Some old Flair\Gavin spots, but exciting to see close-up.

Cool, I'll check that out.

What does your comic book podcast cover?

i watched that MVC vs. Hansen/Deaton match from '93 where the MVC jump Hansen and beat the shit out of him all match long. Great selling from Stan and everything, but I don't see how we're supposed to feel sorry for him. The guy had been doing the same shit to people his entire career. What goes around, comes around, Stan.

Ric Flair vs. Ronnie Garvin, 3/9/86 Now it's time for a handheld from the Omni in Atlanta. Pretty much what you'd expect from these two if you'd been following the TV. Flair had made every excuse under the sun for being knocked out by Garvin from a loaded fist to a cheap shot to a lucky punch. He spends the early part of the match goading Garvin into punching him. Garvin threatens to start boxing Flair and Ric starts begging off. Garvin beats Flair up until Flair does something underhanded to get back into the match. Garvin fights his way back and gets a pinfall opportunity. Flair manages to kick out and the crowd blame Tommy Young. The footage is clipped and there a lot of jump cuts, which makes it difficult to get into the flow of the bout, but it basically continues along similar lines. It's a lot slower than their studio stuff, which obviously suits Flair from a kayfabe point of view. They chase each other around the ring a lot and Garvin pulls Flair's tights down four times, which was probably three times too many. He knocks Flair out, but his leg buckles and he can't make the pin. Eventually, they get counted out and the heat just vanishes. Garvin knocks him out again and claps a three count, but the building is dead. Pretty average.

Yeah, I've seen the Mendoza match as well as the Angel Blanco match, though I was probably focusing more on the luchadores at the time. He's certainly a great worker in the '78-79 footage we have. The junior heavyweight style is a bit limiting in terms of the matches being sub 15 minutes for the most part and Fujinami pretty much always winning with a german or dragon suplex instead of on the mat, but he was as good as anyone I've seen from the period.

Ronnie Garvin promo, WCW, 3/1/86 Garvin cuts a weakish promo laying down a challenge to Arn Anderson and claiming he's become a carpenter as well as a truck driver. Ronnie Garvin vs. Arn Anderson, WCW, 3/1/86 Solid World Television title match between Garvin and Anderson. Flair shows up after the commercial break to add some spice on commentary. Flair's ongoing battle with Crockett has been one of the highlights of the discs thus far. The match goes the distance and Flair distracts Garvin long enough for Arn to deliver a gourdbuster. Flair is a little too excited by this counting three on Garvin and getting up in Crockett's face. The replay of the gourdbuster looked like it hurt Arn more than it did Garvin. Ronnie Garvin promo, WCW, 3/8/86 Garvin's an electrician now. Ric Flair promo, WCW, 3/8/86 One of those rambling promos Flair was guilty of from time to time. He salvages it though with a great line about a wrestler without a title being like a man with no country.

Some of Fujinami's other 70s stuff: The Seoul match against Hoshino is a fairly standard juniors match but has plenty of decent action. The Tony Rocco match from LA is nowhere near as good as their match from the 80s set, but still has its moments and Rocco is definitely a guy I wish we had more of. Fujinami vs. Ted Adams from the Garden is sloppy at times, but I enjoyed Lord Alfred Hayes' play-by-play. Fujinami vs. Mando Guerrero was probably the best match of the stuff I watched this evening, but even I'll admit it's a little dry. Fujinami vs. Greg Valentine was rad, but that may be the Hammer fan in me talking. I also saw a couple of minutes of Dynamite Kid vs. Fujinami from Stampede, but it wasn't a patch on Dynamite's UK stuff. So far, the Go stuff is head and shoulders above the rest of Fujinami's 70s output.

You've watched a lot of his well known singles matches already. I don't think there's much point in recommending trios matches. You could try the 1993 title match against Ultimo Dragon, the double hair vs. mask Scorpio/Bestia vs. Santo/Casas match from '99, and the Panther hair match from 2012, which is worked more like a title match than a hair match. I know you didn't like the '92 Santo match from the yearbook, but there's a 1991 handheld between them and a commercially released bout from '91. He's had a run of singles matches in recent years that others love more than me. If you want to go deeper than they're easily available.