ohtani's jacket

THE ARTHUR PSYCHO HOUR Ep 6 Andy Blair vs. Lucky Gordon (6/13/84) This had a disproportionate amount of heat in relation to the quality of the work because it was part of some Big Daddy team challenge. If you ever want proof of how over Daddy was, here's a good example as you've got a vet who won't bump or sell for some Scottish kid no-one's ever heard of and they're getting great heat. That was interesting if nothing else. Dave Finlay vs. Danny Collins (Chain match, Beaumaris, taped 3/7/91) At first you're thinking "Chain match! C'mon, make this good Finlay!" and then you realise they're on Welsh TV and the chances of there being blood or the thing being any good are limited, and sure enough this was a fairly subdued German-style Pirate Fight that's more or less a cross between a chain match and a flag match. Could have been better if Finlay had his working cap on, but as I've said many times this was a funny old period for Dave. Johnny Saint vs. Kid McCoy (Machynlleth, taped 2/5/91) This was incredibly banal. Another exhibit in why Johnny Saint really wasn't that good. You would expect, or I would expect, a standout worker to have a good little TV match in under the confines of Reslo's television editing, but there was nothing good about this. Klondyke Kate vs. Taranwen & Tracey Kemp (Newcastle Emlyn, taped 2/5/92) Klondyke Kate was kind of like the British Dump Matsumoto, or I guess for fans living over there, a female version of Giant Haystacks. Since Dale Martin never gave women's wrestling a chance, she barely has any profile online, but I believe she was a consistent presence on the indy scene for a great many years and was one of the more despised heels around. Personally, I find her shtick predictable but she wasn't terrible or anything. The blue eye girls here tried hard, but botched their double team spots badly. Pat Roach vs. Ray Steele (Cardiff, taped 3/30/90) This was rad. These guys may have never had a blow away classic on tape, but they had consistently good matches from the late 70s through to this match in 1990, which is an incredibly long time for any given match-up to deliver. There must have had more matches on tape than just about any other pairing and still I was enamoured with their forearm exchanges, body checks and close-in fighting. The only marring age had left on them was their ability to execute standard British pinfall maneuvers, but the rest of their game rocked. I really thought Roach would struggle in this, but this along with the final ITV match with Martin has changed my opinion about latter day Pat Roach. He had some life in the old legs right up until retirement.

Terry Rudge vs. Pete Roberts (9/11/84) This was a 20 minute bout with no rounds and two falls, two submissions or a knockout to decide it that cut off with a bout three minutes to go. To be honest, I wasn't hugely gutted that the footage was incomplete as neither man was at their best, but it's still Terry Rudge against Pete Roberts and that's as good a match-up as any from mid-80s World of Sport. Walton was underselling Rudge a bit since Roberts was one of Walton (or the promoters') favourites, and Rudge didn't really appear on television enough for Walton to push him too hard, but aside from that distraction there was a neat tactical battle in this that Kent highlighted pretty well where Rudge kept attacking from behind and Roberts was slightly more dynamic. Both men have had better, though.

Cheri Bibi/Eric Husberg vs. Marcel Montreal/Rémy Bayle (1965) This was really good. Unfortunately, there was something wrong with the frame rate so the video was choppy, but if you can get past the slo mo effect it's one of the more accessible catch bouts out there. Bibi looked much better in this than the Cesca match, possibly because he was younger here, but also because everyone was a heavyweight so they gave as good as they got and it was a real bruising encounter. Snappy rhythm even over a 2/3 falls 35 minute bout. Didn't drag once and they didn't pull any punches when it came to dishing out the forearm smashes. If you like the Finlay/Regal/Taylor style you'll like this.

My timing is probably off. Cubsfan has Dandy all over the place in 1990 -- http://www.thecubsfan.com/cmll/wcards/eldandy.php It's probably just the vagaries of CMLL booking.

It's been a long time since I watched that stuff, but my recollection is that Dandy switched to the rudo side during his feud with Azteca and then back to the tecnico side against Satancio. Satanico also turned from tecnico to rudo that year.

Dandy is a rudo in that match, fwiw.

A fair chunk of it was included on the 1990 Yearbook so you might want to go through that. I would recommend watching as much of the lead in as possible, but I can't tell you off the too of my head if any of them are must sees. Dandy's feud with Emilio is probably one of his four major feuds on tape so if you didn't like that then the Satancio stuff is probably a last resort.

I like that there's a dissenting opinion on Dandy, but I think you're allowing your enjoyment of the rudos to cloud your judgement a bit. The rudos are easy to identify with because they're naturally charismatic, but the tecnico role is harder to play, so when you have a guy who plays it well, it makes a tremendous difference to the overall quality of the match, feud or rivalry. Given you don't like the workrate stuff (i.e. the technical style), I'd recommend following one of his apuesta feuds in chronological order from the trios matches up until the apuesta bout. I think that's better than jumping around and watching random matches from a guy you don't really identify with yet. If you don't enjoy the Satanico vs. Dandy feud from 1990 in its entirety, I would write Dandy off.

The promotion that the television comes from is I believe the Fédération française de catch professionnel (FFCP) promoted by Roger Delaporte and filmed predominantly at the Élysée Montmartre in Paris. There is no date on Cesca/Catanzaro, but presumably it's from the FFCP. The dates used in this thread are TV air dates and may not be reliable. The spelling of the wrestlers' names is also questionable at times.

I've just got to say that Tokyo Sports is a tabloid newspaper with a notorious reputation. It's often said the only thing credible about Tokyo Sports is the cover date.

Teri Funku and Dori Funku Junia. OJ is that legit? If so awesome. Well, GOTNW is right about the vowel lengthening at the end of Dorii and Terii. The extended katakana for Fa is just a way to cater for a foreign sound not present in Japanese. I was trying to make it easier for you to pronounce as fan-ku would be odd. In Japanese, the tag team is called Za Fankusu. Dory's twitter (and the email handle he has used for decades) is https://twitter.com/fuanku as he's taking the katakana extension literally, but your explanation and GOTNW's are correct. Your Japanese is better than mine... It's kind of interesting that he romanises it as "fua" but that's awfully difficult for people to pronounce.

I don't think he was the wrestler of the year, but Pete Roberts was really great in 1985.

Chigusa Nagayo had the second hair match with Dump, the awesome Leilani Kai bout, at least one great Crush Girls tag against the Jumping Bomb Angels, and some good stuff in the ongoing Omori and Asuka rivalries.

Lynch has a copy. I don't think it's been uploaded yet.

The thing I remember most is when you'd rent a tape that was maybe Memphis or Mid South or something and be disappointed because it wasn't like the WWF. The folly of youth.

British wrestling had a strong following among middle aged women as well as older pensioners. I remember Mick McManus cracking a few jokes about the ladies admiring Johnny Kwango's skimpy trunks, and Walton would always go on about the wrestlers' looks.

There used to be an Adrian Street/Mick McMichael WoS match on YouTube but it looks as though it's gone. I have one other Street match from that era, which I guess I can rip if anyone is interested.

Taue being pimped is not really a new thing. I don't want to get into a whole big "there are no original ideas" thing but it's been done on various boards over the years by various people who came to this stuff years after the fact. The idea has simply been rejected less, or should I say embraced more, as it becomes less and less sacrosanct that there were the Big Three + Taue. Again, I don't want to get into any pissing contests about who said what, when, about Taue, but the established wisdom for a long time was that he was a late bloomer. A lot of people have challenged that over the years as they've become endeared with early 90s Taue.

This is tough since I just watched the Dibiase/TA Magnum matches the other day whereas I haven't bothered to watch a Bret match in years. Bret was, at one time, my favourite wrestler, but I've long since made my peace about that. I'd draw the line at this: Bret got the most out of his ability by becoming a multiple time champion whereas Dibiase never fulfilled his potential. Dibiase was more talented, but Bret believed in his shit more. So, I'd probably take Bret. Choshu is a big, dumb, goofy worker who's fun to watch because he's so over not necessarily because he's good. His charisma adds buckets loads to his bouts. If you don't buy into that, he's as boring as shit. Austin is far more visceral. He was the closest thing to a modern day Texan as wrestling allows. Part Terry Funk, part Hansen, part Murdoch, part whomever else. Choshu was an amazing foil for some amazing wrestlers. Coin flip? I'll choose Austin on the basis that if you uncovered footage from both guys worth watching I'd be more interested in the Austin you uncovered. Bad timing since I've hated Liger's work in Reslo. Liger is boring whereas Volk is the supreme master. By all sensible standards Liger should be the winner here, but he's not a guy I hold in the same esteem as Volk. Liger reached a peak with the Sano feud and it was downhill from there. Volk kept pushing the shoot style form until it became an art. One strikes me as an artist while the other is kind of eager. I choose Volk for his wizardry.

Yeah, Buddy in a cake walk. I don't like the way Buddy lies in holds but that's the only weakness in this comparison. Saint was in some great matches but they were mostly due to the match-ups and not carry jobs. Even the Brookside match is against an incredibly game young man. I will say that it's equally effective as the Martel stuff albeit in a different style, and there is one tag from the early 70s I'd rate as better than any Rose tag I've seen, but I wouldn't give Saint the credit for that. The deciding factor, aside from the overwhelming number of lousy Saint matches, is that the extent of Saint's character work was that he is Johnny Saint compared to the whole Playboy character. There's also a misconception that Saint *is* British wrestling, which I pretty much loathe, but I don't think it's fair for that to creep into the comparison even though I just let it.

I don't get the feeling that Tommy Lee is backing me up.

Fujiwara, and I'm not sure it's close. One of the greatest mat wrestlers of all-time, mixed a stand-up game with defensive prowess, and was equally adept at brawling and working carny, pro-style bouts. I suppose the only thing keeping him from being a complete all-rounder is the fact he didn't take to the air, but that's about as novel as Satanico doing a tope. Rey is good, but he worked a more choreographed style and I don't think he has the brawling skills or mat work to match Fujiwara. I also don't see an argument for Rey being a great luchador per se, and while that won't mean much to others it means something to me. Hashimoto in a heartbeat. I don't have a lot of negative things to say about Savage, but I will say that I prefer his mid-80s work to the matches he had later on. I especially found the 1997 DDP feud extremely disappointing during the WCW poll. Hashimoto was just an absolute force. Don't get me started on Hashimoto or I'll start gushing about bushido and Japanese concepts of masculinity and all sorts of shit. I don't know if anyone's gone through 90s NJPW with a fine tooth comb, but my only criticism of Hashimoto would be that he doesn't have the deepest back catalogue of great matches. But then neither does Savage really. I'm not sure these two are really so dissimilar, but I'd probably lean towards Santo as there are clear periods I enjoy (early 90s UWA period, '96-97 CMLL, sporadic 00s) whereas with Lawler I'm really only interested in his prime Memphis work. Peak vs. peak, head-to-head, it would be interesting to compare a Lawler Memphis feud complete with blowoff match against a Santo feud complete with apuesta match, but we don't have the footage for Santo. Both were formula guys and both excelled at brawls. Santo has the execution and spectacular moves and is better on the mat, though not great by any stretch of the imagination. I'd lean towards Santo. Terry is entertaining. I could watch nothing but Funk promos and be entertained. But I've never thought he has the matches. They just don't exist on tape. Casas was (and most would argue still is) a genius, and there is plenty of Casas on tape. You could maybe argue that Terry is better offensively as I think Casas is better at selling than he is at actually wrestling, and irrespective of what I said about Terry not having the matches, you could probably match up his best matches alongside Casas without Funk coming off second best, but the constant run at Arena Mexico has more weight for me. This is really tough, though. Virus. Bobby Eaton has never had a singles match as good as Virus' ten best singles bouts, and I can't think of a single area where Virus doesn't match or better Eaton. ​Aside from the Sir William stuff, I'm only really familiar with Dundee through one feud. It's an all-time great feud with great promos, great TV and great arena matches, but it's still only one feud. I'm not a massive Eddy fan and the idea of watching Dundee is far more appealing to me, but I probably couldn't take Dundee in good faith. My only reservation is that Eddy is increasingly a one feud guy for me since I don't care a lot about him outside of his work against Mysterio. This is tough. I like both of these guys. They're the kind of guys where you can throw on a random match and usually find yourself enjoying it, and actually my frustration with both guys is the same: a limited pool of great matches. Tully's a better studio wrestler in my view, but overall Regal was probably the more talented wrestler since Tully spent most of his matches backtracking before cheating to win. I'm a bit guarded over Regal since I think his influences were better workers, but I'll give him the points victory over Tully. I will say if you consider brawls, Tully was better. Regal had the tools to be a great brawler, but he never really got the opportunities to show it. Vader, but only because I like his Bull Power stuff and was never into Onita matches. Vader wouldn't rate that highly for me otherwise. When he's not potatoing people I find a lot of his stuff staged, but it doesn't get much more staged than explosions. I'll finish the rest later, or not...

Maybe this belongs in the confessions thread, but I can't be the only one who thought that wasn't very good. Somebody back me up.

Living in Japan probably skewers my perspective, but I'd go Misawa, Kawada, Taue, Kobashi. I agree with GOTNW that rating Taue as highly as Misawa and Kawada is underselling them, but for a long time I did the same. I always always fond of what he brought to the table from 1990-94 when the standard line was that he improved dramatically in '95. What I don't really agree with is all this praise for him being a guy who knew his limitations and was a clever worker. During that period he was finding his feet and those limitations really were limitations. The dude was awesome, but I think people go overboard with the credit when everything I've heard is that he didn't exactly eat, sleep, breathe pro-wrestling.

Are you talking about his debut in WCW or his earlier Florida/Japan/WWF work?