ohtani's jacket

Does this include tag matches and six-mans? Cagematch has 171 results for Murdoch vs. Inoki. Anyway, I don't think Murdoch ever beat Inoki in a singles match so I'm figuring those wins were in tag matches where Inoki probably didn't eat the pinfall too often. Dick had his spot. It was a good spot, but I don't see a case for him as one of the most important gaijin stars in history. He has longevity with the amount of tours he worked there, but everything he did impact wise was solid not spectacular.

Jimmy, if you can put together a select list of Cena matches in different working situations I will make the time to watch them. Cheers.

It seems kind of a given that Murdoch was bigger in New Japan than All Japan. I don't really get where the idea that he was big in All Japan came from. I also don't really see any reason why Baba would lose to Murdoch in the period that he worked there. Murdoch was on the level of trading wins with Jumbo before Inoki pinched him. Would he have been Hansen if neither of them had jumped? That's the question.

Poor Jerome. I won't potty mouth Takada anymore. I saw him on TV the other day and he hasn't aged so well.

Another under-the-radar favourite of mine, Tarzan Johnny Wilson. He won't look like much at first, but if you've seen the crazy amount that I have you will appreciate his sterling efforts every time out. And because you must see him once, one of the hairiest men to ever wrestle, ladies and gentlemen Little Prince:

Now for a couple of guys who may test the limits of how important personal charisma is for you, but were part of a quartet of hard hitting wrestlers from the 1980s along with Roach and Rudge. The first is Indian star Tiger Dalibar Singh (also known as Gil Singh): And my boy, Ray Steele. If you can get into him then you and I will be wrestling pen friends that's for sure.

You need to watch the Jones vs. Rocco bouts from the 70s at the least. I think they will change your opinion on Rocco slightly. Just don't watch that Bobby Bold Eagle match I wrote about a few moments ago. Some pretty dodgy skill levels there from Rocco.

Getting closer to knocking off 1980 forever and all time. Bobby Barnes vs. Bob Anthony (5/22/80) Barnes had cut his hair short here but was still a blonde. I guess that means his image change was a slow metamorphosis and not a sudden change. This was a pretty good match actually, especially in the middle rounds where Anthony was staking a claim for a successful return to television. It petered out a bit when Barnes took over in the later rounds and the finish was naff, but Anthony again proved himself capable. Alan Dennison vs. Bob Anthony (2/13/80) This seems to have been Anthony's official return to television. Dennison was less dickish than usual but still didn't give Anthony much. Walton spent the whole time waxing poetically about Anthony's father Bob Archer O'Brien, an older Southern area welterweight star. Ray Steele vs. Peter Stewart (9/3/80) For some reason, Peter Stewart hadn't appeared on television since 1976. Back then he'd been a tall, skinny heavyweight struggling like most to make it into the top flight. Four years later, he had filled out, grown a Charles Bronson like moustache and was wearing a badass black protective glove on his right hand. He even had a badass nickname, The Iron Duke. This was a cool match, though very much for the connoisseur of the more minimalist heavyweight style. Stewart showed he was a good addition to the club who worked that style well and it's a shame he got lost in the shuffle like so many others. Pat Roach vs. Pete Stewart (11/5/80) Here's a bit of useless trivia for you in case anyone ever asks you what Jeff Kaye's first televised match as a referee was. Man Roach was huge. Stewart was a big guy, but Roach was simply bigger. Only Quinn comes close to giving the same impression. This was also cool in the same vein that the Steele bout was. Things got pretty testy between the two, but the promoters were continuing to turn Roach face so nothing much came of it. There was an awkward spot where Kaye counted a pinfall where Stewart had gotten his shoulder up. Roach refused the fall, which made sense in terms of putting over his new found sportsmanship, but it made Kaye look pretty weak in his first appearance as ref. Chris Adams vs. King Ben (11/8/80) For the heats of a knockout trophy tournament this was an excellent bout. It went to a draw so it didn't quite hold its shape the entire way, but for two guys I'm hardly fond of they impressed me with their working chemistry. Ben seems like a better wrestler in the early 80s then I would have given him credit for. He had a lot of natural charisma and some neat comedy spots. His selling of the enzuigiri (which Walton had some weird name for) would mortify some people, but forgivable considering it was England in the 1980s and not Japan. Bobby Bold Eagle vs. Rollerball Rocco (9/3/80) This was Bobby Bold Eagle's television debut for Joint Promotions. He mostly stuck to Native American shtick while Rocco cheated his arse off. Walton of course went on about Billy Two Rivers, who had been a huge success in Joint rings in the 60s. The bout was a Rocco special, but it was sullied somewhat by the blatant spot calling and an incredibly unsubtle reach for a blade by Rocco. It was cool that he bleed from BBE's tomahawk chops and pretty outrageous considering blood wasn't allowed on television, but for a guy who was supposed to be the pro's pro, this was one of the more business exposing bouts I've seen from a British grappler. Wayne Bridges vs. John Quinn (4/21/80) The spectacle for this was amazing. It was taped at Wembley, which was one of the more raucous crowds around, and aired on Cup Final Day. Proof positive that Joint could build to a big match and deliver, the MC starts by telling the crowd how impatient they are. Then Manfred Mann hits and Quinn makes the best World Heavyweight title match entrance a rudo could possibly make in a town hall in 1980s London. Bridges came out to Entry of the Gladiators with flags and fanfare, and they even did this BS thing where they passed Yasa Fuji off as the heavyweight champion of Japan waiting to be the first man to challenge the winner. The bout was pure theatre with the crowd ready to come unglued at a moment's notice. They were a smart crowd too as they noticed every indiscretion Quinn made even the slightest hair pull. Ward milked the public warnings beautifully and the building shook whenever Bridges would fight back. The ring was surrounded by twice as many attendants as usual due to how worked up the crowd were. When Bridges took the first fall, this guy leapt into shot looking like he was going to attack Bridges when in fact he was so fired up over Bridges taking a fall that he just lost his shit completely. The finish was ballsy given the crowd reaction as Bridges was busted open and unable to continue the fight handing the title to Quinn, who had naturally cheated the entire match with his all-in American rule breaking. Since it aired live on Cup Final Day, the editor chased Bridges around with a grey spot to cover up his cut and there were cutaways to ladies in the crowd as Fuji jumped into the ring to celebrate with The Mighty Quinn. This was a great run from Quinn, who really upset the locals with his comments about England. Of course Daddy showed up to set up a tag match and steal the heat, but wow, as a spectacle that left me breathless. King Ben vs. Honey Boy Zimba (9/3/80) Only the scoring falls were really shown. Didn't realise Zimba had a Herculean gut by 1980. Mike Marino vs. King Kong Kirk (9/3/80) Jesus, Marino was older than Moses in '80. Mal Kirk is the type of wrestler who's easy to write off as he was almost the George 'the Animal' Steele of British wrestling, but he was committed to his role, got plenty of heat and never really stank it up in the ring. This wasn't much of anything since Marino was older than dirt, but Kirk's facials were a lot of fun. You'd swear Kirk Douglas was his name sake watching the way he scowls. He's really like a cartoon character come to life.

11/22/91 is the correct date.

I already expect there will be people who won't vote for Satanico, and I can think of at least three big lucha fans who don't rate him as highly as I do, so it's not something that would upset me. My picks never do well in this sort of thing. If I were to make my list tomorrow and include Cena, where would I put him? How could I rank him against Satanico who I've seen wrestle in just about every match situation? I'm trying to look at the pros and cons of every worker I vote for and weight those things accordingly, but I don't think I can do that fairly with Cena and a token vote is a waste of space. Having said that, if he's such a lock then maybe I should watch more of him. I don't really see how I can catch up in time though unless I start exclusively watching John Cena matches. I only watch a dozen or so wrestling matches a week so it's a bit of a quandry. I haven't even got properly started on Rey yet.

It's not a troll. I haven't watched WWE TV weekly since 2001. It's possible that I've seen less than a dozen John Cena matches.

I might abstain on voting for Cena because I only ever watch his most highly pimped stuff.

Conneally (or however it's spelled) really stretches the limits of believability as he's basically a comedian doing a wrestling act. Personally, I don't find him funny, but as the old adage goes: "everybody was somebody's favourite."

Who's saying he's wrong? I suspect he's wrong that's all. If Dick Murdoch was a household name in Japan then about 20-30 other guys must have been too and that's a lot of household names. My impression of Murdoch is that he was a second tier star. He wasn't one of the truly big stars of the 70s and jumped to New Japan at a time when foreigners were being de-emphasised in favour of native feuds. He was respected by his peers, a fan favourite, and a guy promoters welcomed back time and time again, but during wrestling's hottest run he was predominantly a tag wrestler. One thing that I would consider is how important were his main events against Inoki or Baba. Once you got outside Tokyo and some of the bigger areas, the draws were really Inoki and Baba because it was a chance to see those guys live in person in your hometown/prefecture. So it really becomes a question of how important it was that Murdoch was an opponent. I suspect (but don't know for sure) that the concept of drawing and main event billing in American cities is slightly different from how AJPW and NJPW drew outside of the Kanto region. So, I'd look at how they drew the last time they were in town and whether Murdoch was ever used to pop a bigger gate, and I'd look at how he was used in key markets like Tokyo and Osaka. Don't forget that the tour rosters weren't that big. Dick was a guy they trusted and who toured more than 50 times. He was a top foreign star, but there weren't that many foreign stars at any one time. You're going to rotate him in and out of your main events while on tour. So I think it's important to look for something a bit more special than the number of times Dick was in the main event.

Murdoch's New Japan run fom '81-89 is what he is most remembered for, particularly the '81-83 period where New Japan was really hot. I don't think anybody remembers him as a 70s star or even an All Japan guy. The whole household name thing is slight hyperbole. You have to take into consideration the scale of what that entails. Baba and Inoki were household names. Was Murodch on that level? As for shoot style, Dave mentioned he picked up on the submissions, but the submissions Murdoch worked were pre-shoot style NJ holds.

Was Murdoch really a household name in Japan? I find that hard to believe. He's never a name that's immediately brought up when people reminisce about Showa era wrestling and Meltzer's obit goes on to say he was at the level of Adrian Adonis and The Masked Superstar not a Hogan or Andre. And as for being able to work shoot style just because he could do an armbar, really?

I've never really gotten to the bottom of why EMLL talent could work at El Toreo. Jose told me the reason wrestlers moved freely between the UWA and EMLL was because Flores didn't have contracts with anyone, but there are times when it seemed like the promotions were co-operating. Fishman seems like another potential candidate.

If there's to be a HOF going forward that inducts new modern candidates and not just historical ones then Tanahashi unequivocally belongs in the hall. He didn't have to go in so soon, but he belongs there for certain.

No, I don't think that's a bad read. He's the type of worker who would purposefully entertain with his holds, work in jokes and throw little winks to the audience. Then when it was time to get serious he'd roll the sleeves up and cut out the jokes. He had a really nasty piledriver that sticks out like a sore thumb compared with the rest of his antics. I also love how he's the Terry Funk of WoS, always retiring then coming back. MJH mentioned the other day that he finds a lot of the face vs. face WoS stuff too exhibition-y. I think there's a place for all styles whether it's fast paced lightweight stuff, the slower heavyweight bouts, the comedy stuff, or the heated blue-eye vs. villain bouts. I like how you can have all those different styles in the same promotion. I'm not sure it would have worked without Walton. The way he could call a Pallo match or a Kellet or Kevin Conneally match, where they'd stop and tell a joke in the middle of the match, as though they were deliberate pranksters taking the mickey out of their opponents is some of the best straddling of kayfabe you'll ever hear.

Maybe. I do find his non-Steve Grey 70s work more interesting than the majority of his Iron Fist run. But it's more the case that as 'Iron Fist' he fails to deliver even against top talent. If he'd had better matches outside of the 80s Grey bouts and the Haward draw, I would rate him a tier above.

Note: I decided to do away with the Annoying as Fuck category as I found it obnoxious. There were minor changes here and there, but Ray Steele, Marc Rocco, Zolton Boscik and Mal Sanders were the big movers.

I realised that I haven't updated this in a year, so here we go... Ranking the European workers v. 3 (Oct 2014) All-Time Greats Jim Breaks, Mick McManus, Alan Sarjeant, Jon Cortez, Marty Jones, Steve Grey Great Workers Terry Rudge, Tibor Szacaks, Mike Marino, Ken Joyce Excellent Workers Bobby Barnes, Robby Baron, Franz van Buyten, Clive Myers, Steve Veidor, Sid Cooper, Alan Kilby, Pat Roach, Pete Roberts, Caswell Martin Strong Hands Johnny Czeslaw, John Elijah, Tiger Dalibar Singh, Keith Haward, Tom Tyrone, Brian Maxine, Steve Logan (Snr), Les Kellett, Romany Riley, Alan Wood, Axl Dieter, Bobby Ryan, Dave Finlay, Ray Steele, Marc Rocco, Zolton Boscik Decent Hands Tony St. Clair, Jim Moser, Chic Cullen, Peter La Paque, Colin Joynson, Ray Robinson, Johnny Kincaid, Vic Faulkner, Tony Costas, Bert Royal, Roy St. Clair, John Kowalski, Johnny South, Ringo Rigby, Rocky Moran, Jeff Kaye, Johnny Kidd, Young David, Otto Wanz, John Quinn, Tony Walsh, Rene Lasartesse, Dynamite Kid, Steve Regal, Clay Thomson, Johnny Kwango, Bob Kirkwood, Prince Kumali, Dave Bond, Tarzan Johnny Wilson, Lenny Hurst, René Ben Chemoul, Gilbert Cesca, Bob Plantin, Mal Sanders, Tally Ho Kaye, Indio Guajaro, Klaus Wallas, Jackie Turpin, Klaus Kauroff, Count Vladimir, Pat Patton, Little Prince Average Kung Fu, Alan Dennison, Tony Charles, Mick McMichael, Count Baretlli, Lee Bronson, Honey Boy Zimba, Kendo Nagasaki, Skull Murphy, Johnny England, Mike Jordan, Kid Chocolate, Dave Taylor, Ivan Penzekoff, Billy Torontos, Colonel Brody, Bernie Wright, Peter Wilson, King Ben, Bruno Elrington, Black Jack Mulligan Overrated Johnny Saint, Steve Wright, Eddie Capelli, Wayne Bridges, John Naylor, Danny Collins, Chris Adams

One of my personal favourites, John 'The Bear' Elijah. A rock solid power wrestler, who never had a truly great match but was consistently excellent. My choice of match may seem odd, but it's the only time I've seen Big Daddy bother to have a proper singles match (or a proper match or any sort really.) Terry Rudge, not actually held in as high esteem among British fans as in our circle, presumably because he spent most of his time overseas, but truly a God among workers. Here he is in one of the finest WoS bouts to make tape:

The 'Polish Eagle' Johnny Czeslaw, tough as nails with a cracking sense of humour. British wrestling had a lot of performers like this. Guys who could do comedy but also wrestle. The playing to the gallery can be a bit offsetting at first, but if you like you like British comedy you soon get the swing of it. Here he is against a very underrated wrestler, Romany Riley: This is a bit of a cheat as we don't have much of him on tape, but I thought people might appreciate the stylings of the positively unknown Alan Wood.

I used to be very negative about Rocco, but his work from '76-79 is excellent. He wasn't the best wrestler in the UK at the time, but he was the complete package when it came to a television personality and heel act. Marty Jones reigned him in well, but even in bouts where he takes center stage, he was an exciting act during that time. He's especially good in catchweight bouts where he wrestles a lot more instead of just pinballing about. His early 80s work isn't quite as good but there's still some highlights. Just avoid the Dynamite Kid stuff for the most part. I still don't like him in All-Star, and especially New Japan where he's pretty terrible. He might make it onto my list for those peak years.