ohtani's jacket

That was Villano IV.

Nothing bugs me more in lucha than the lack of critical appraisal that El Dandy and other all-time greats receive. I can understand there not being as much evaluation of Dandy as workers we all grew up on, but to me it's a sign that he's not taken that seriously. Of course when you watch El Dandy for the first time, as many people did on the 1990 Pro-Wrestling Only Yearbook, you're struck by how good he was -- one of the best in the world that year, and possibly one of the best of all-time -- but you wouldn't base your entire opinion of Ric Flair on his best year and neither should you with Dandy. Don't get me wrong, I love Dandy and have done for close to a decade now, but here on the Great Lucha blog I've always tried to turn a critical eye not only towards workers I dislike but favourites too, and particularly the workers who people seemingly do nothing but praise, the Negro Casas, the Blue Panthers and the El Hijo del Santos. It may come across as negative at times, but that doesn't bother me so long as it's fair. Recently, I've been a bit disappointed in how Dandy's come across in Vintage Negro Casas of the Day particularly in comparison to Casas, so I wanted to take a fresh look at him away from Casas but still in the same era. Here's what I came up with: El Dandy/La Fiera/Apolo Dantes vs. Pierroth Jr./Bestia Salvaje/Mano Negra, CMLL 4/29/94 Bestia's nose was well and truly like W.C. Fields at this point. Mano Negra was still sporting his Dave Finlay look and hammed it up for the camera as George Thorogood blared through Arena Coliseo. There's no way a match with this many good workers should be a lame duck. It was a stock trios; one you've seen a thousand times before where the technicos get the better of the early exchanges, the rudos beat them down as penance, and the technicos make a comeback. But there was a strange disconnect between the workers as though they weren't paying attention to what the other pairs were doing. It didn't help that the match wasn't filmed very well, but talk about another Arena Coliseo stinker. Pierroth kept bickering with Negra, which is a pain in the ass as it distracts from the match and meant that Negra couldn't continue his rich vein of form. The rudos also chose to beat on Fiera, who was caught on camera making no effort to sell whatsoever. It was embarrassing really. These were hard times for CMLL and even good workers like these were struggling for motivation. Dandy had gotten back into shape in '94, suspiciously so it must be said, but didn't add a single bit of spark to this. That's a big difference between Dandy and Casas and even this Dandy and the 1990 version. In 1990, business would pick up every time he was in the ring. It was magic the way he'd dazzle the crowd whenever he stepped between the ropes. Here he had the chance to do something special with Dave "Mano Negra" Finlay and didn't take it. In 1990 he would have been all over that action. El Dandy/Atlantis/Pierroth Jr. vs. La Fiera/El Satanico/Emilio Charles Jr., CMLL 11/13/92 Now this kicked ass. They did a rare pre-match angle where Dandy was being interviewed back stage and was jumped by Fiera and his boys. Fiera was great here wearing a jacket and shades and looking every bit the sleaze thread material that he was. The technicos escaped to ringside, and the camera stayed on the rudos as they did their jackets up for their entrance, which was unintentionally awesome. The rudo beat down to begin this was one of the best rudo beat downs I've seen in a long, long time. The vigour with which Emilio got stuck into his work was brilliant. He was such an unbelievably awesome worker. I still think he's under-appreciated even by hardcore lucha fans. Gregor mentioned recently that Emilio taking the monkey flip from Atlantis and charging into the backbreaker is a routine he wants to see every time and I wholeheartedly agree with that position. Satanico and Pierroth also teared into each other. They still had a lot of heat from the Infernales/Intocables feud, and what you basically had here were three great match-ups where the guys were all feuding with each other. Dandy bled (yeeesss), the technicos made their comeback and Fiera bled (yeeesss), and then his chain got involved. The whole thing was very Memphis and a throwback to the early 80s Arena Mexico shows. This really made me want to see the Fiera/Dandy hair match again even though I recall it being disappointing. El Dandy/Atlantis/Ultimo Dragon vs. Bestia Salvaje/Felino/Mano Negra, CMLL 8/20/93 We get an erotic workout video to start this. It must be apuestas time if they're showing gym workout videos. The Atlantis vs. Mano Negra feud wasn't very good. I'd dearly love it to be, but I just got done popping for the hundredth time as Atlantis and Emilio did their signature spots and didn't pop once here. I don't know how they could have made it any better actually. The limb work they did was boring, but mask ripping and having Atlantis face to canvas covering his identity would have been just as bad. They just didn't have any chemistry. Dandy was in a secondary role here, but still found a way to be unimpressive. One of the great disappointments of 1993 CMLL has to be any time Dandy and Felino square off. Felino was trying too hard to be charismatic in '93 and his humour came across as forced. I can't say I blame him for overacting since his push was new and he was in his brother's shadow, but even today he's a ham actor. He gelled more with Ultimo in this match since they did pure workrate stuff. Bestia might as well have had a table cloth draped over him for as much of a part as he really played in this. It's amazing what an afterthought he became after an excellent 1992. Things were definitely going south for him. It's rare that you see a match like this where something's always happening yet none of it is interesting. Los Infernales vs. El Dandy/Ultimo Dragon/Atlantis, CMLL 09/11/92 This was better than most of the build for the 1992 Satanico/Dandy hair match, probably because the Infernales were involved, but still a case of diminishing returns. Dandy bled, which was a good thing, and the Infernales were lack of a pack of wolves in the opening caida working over the cut. Satanico really grew his hair out for the Anniversary Show, so he definitely looked the part even if he was the wrong wrestler for the match. Wrong match or not, he did an excellent job of working Dandy over here and had a few women in the audience engaged in running arguments with him. Dandy was good, but this was mostly a Satanico special. The other Infernales contributed nice little touches and I loved the way they bumped and sold for the technico comeback, which was build around a pair of dives from Atlantis and Ultimo Dragon. The technicos were excellent as well with snarky little stomps and kicks. I liked the way Atlantis laid the boot in after Pirata had taken his back crawl bump to the outside. Not a very long match and no big comeback from Dandy to show where he was in this match work wise, but like I said it was the best piece of build in a largely forgettable rematch of a rematch of a rematch.

That thread isn't the place to debate it, but my view is that if you want a real fight, go and watch UFC or the Olympics. I prefer my pretend fighting with Irish whips in it. And dropkicks. And suplexes. And "selling" in the manner of a Ricky Steamboat or Terry Funk. I have no problem being wedded to that particular vision of pro wrestling, because that's what made me a fan and that's what I'm a fan of. I'm open to other styles, and other things, but that UWF style is so far from what brought me to the dance that it might as well not be pro wrestling. I am really almost philosophically opposed to it. I don't understand what it's trying to achieve or why. I actually hate it, to be honest, I'd go as far as to call it "anti-wrestling". It's more offensive to me than a George Steele match in which he eats the turnbuckle and spends most of the time outside the ring. And if I want to watch a worked shoot what do I do? You don't half carry on about this stuff. It's possible to like a worked shoot and a MMA fight just as it's possible to like a worked shoot and something carny just as it's possible for a worked shoot to be carny. It's obvious what it's trying to achieve and why. If you legitimately don't know then you're just being flippant.

Ultimo was great in CMLL even in 1993 where I had previously thought he was weak. Casas vs. Ultimo was a real bright spot in a pretty dark era for the company, but he's good in other trios too. I can't think of anybody who was faster between the ropes. I need to get a copy of the Casas/Ultimo singles match from '93 to see whether it transferred through to singles. I also remember him getting good stuff out of Malenko in WCW. Seems like a case of being so overrated he's underrated.

I've watched wrestling almost my entire life and have no attachment to the irish whip. And I hate badly coloured tights. That's some kitsch nonsense, Parv.

The majority of the girls had long hair. Japan is a very image conscious country with a lot of stock put in appearance. To put it bluntly, the pretty girls had long hair and the other types had short hair as would have been the case in every junior high school around the country. They did try to avoid sex scandals and were extremely careful about who they let into the locker rooms after the shows, which is similar to how idols are promoted even today, but the hair thing I don't think was a big deal and you had Mimi Hagiwara right here who was as sexualised a Joshi wrestler as it gets.

Yeah, that's it. Eduardo also uploaded one of the trios that people were high on in the yearbook.

I don't mean to nitpick, but sporty athletic girls almost always cut their hair short in Japan. I don't think it was done to desexualise them.

His work post 1990 is not well documented because he wasn't a worker that people traditionally thought of as great. Your best bet is taking a look at his CMLL run from 1989 to 1996. He has a fun feud with Perro Aguayo in 1992 though it's not on the level of their 80s work. When I was doing the lucha history lessons, it was amazing how big Chicana was in the early 80s. He was everywhere -- Arena Mexico, El Toreo, Monterrey -- feuding with everyone more often than not in rudo vs. rudo feuds. If we had some of that stuff, I think he'd come across as the best lucha act ever, but unfortunately it wasn't taped.

That remedial thread was so different from how you usually watch wrestling (with a strong emphasis on context, etc.) Personally, I think you should watch the Jumbo & Co. vs. Misawa & Co. six mans as they're much more up your alley. The matches getting longer was a natural progression of the same group of workers trying to top what they'd already done. I don't have any use for one hour All Japan matches, but I don't agree with you that a 25 minute tag needed to be a third shorter. Japanese fans love nearfalls. The whole reason the 2.99 culture exists in Japan is because Japanese fans love their nearfalls. They were giving the people what they want, and besides the style was basically about receiving damage (like the life bar in a video game) so there was that whole finish 'em video game vibe.

Define obvious. Anyone who finished in the top 25 last time is how I defined it, and it is waived for them. I assume most candidates are going to be obvious. Looking through the Smarkschoice results, I don't see why we need to provide reviews for the top 100. It's not like we're novices. The majority of us have heard of these wrestlers. It seems silly to provide reviews of Barry Windham or Arn Anderson. I can understand if it's obscure lucha or European workers, but not well known guys. Also, I know he was in the top 25, but are there even three Destroyer reviews on this site since it changed to PWO?

I don't get why you need the three match rule for obvious candidates.

Thanks for taking the time Jimmy. I will start plowing through those.

Someone needs to suggest WWE Rey Mysterio matches to check out. I know I've enjoyed the ones I've seen in the past, but not to the extent that he's top 10 all time. I will keep an open mind about it, but I'd like to do some match watching.

Liger suffers from being a guy who I got bored of a long time ago. I think I'll check out that Kanemoto match you uploaded and see if I can rekindle the spark. There's also his career as Yamada to consider. He was pretty good for a young guy.

Did we ever get to the bottom of why fans turned on him? I can't see it affecting his legacy too much any more than the annoying booking with the heel turn will.

Aja was good at being Aja. She was never a favourite of mine as I much preferred the role Kansai played in JWP or even Devil for that matter, and Bull was a better worker who didn't necessarily have better matches. The one point I would put in Aja's favour is when AJW transitioned into their own version of 6/3/94, 6/9/95 style matches she was very good at structuring those main events. Personally I don't think her opponents got enough credit for how hard they worked from underneath, but Aja played her role well and I can understand why she was popular.

Probably the best seller I've seen. Like most people I found him stoic and uninteresting at first and was drawn to Kawada and his narrative, but once Misawa clicked for me, he clicked in a big way. Suddenly, I started noticing how amazing he was as an ace. I usually hate it when wrestlers spring a big move early (like the surprise German suplex in Joshi), but with Misawa it never felt like it was a shock tactic. He was always in complete control. He had that move in his arsenal and could hit it at any time. I have no doubt that put his opponent in two minds about how to progress with the match. But the most epic thing about Misawa was the beatings he would take. Man did he know how to lay himself out as an ace. Watching him teeter on the brink of defeat was something else. It was about as close as wrestling gets to actual sports.

Probably the wrestler whose stock has dropped the furthest with me since we did the Smarkschoice poll. The 1997 heel turn and the '04-05 WWE run are the only two periods of his career I'm fond of.

His formula worked because he had such beautiful execution on his signature spots. I don't think there's any way you can get tired of Santo's dives. Having said that, his rep is helped a lot by his father. I realise it was a difficult legacy to live up to, but on the flipside there's an immediate attraction to the gimmick and for many people he's a gateway drug to real Mexican lucha libre. I know we shouldn't penalise guys for being gateway drugs, but the truth is once you start getting into lucha you realise there are a lot of good guys; they're just not as heralded as Santo. In order not to hold that against Santo, it's necessary to find the truly great Santo performances and unfortunately his best period appears to have been in the late 80s and early 90s where very little of his work made tape. His AAA years are a waste and along with the messy Casas feud took a huge chunk out of his prime years. I don't know if I'd say he was outstanding on the mat. He was very good in certain situations, but I don't think it was his calling card. I also don't see an inconsistency in Satanico's work rather a slump that came with age, but that's a side issue.

Hokuto was always one of the examples used in the peak vs. longevity argument. Criticism over the brevity of her peak always existed, but was drowned out her vocal group of fans and the cult of personality that surrounded her. I think she's a case of a worker who was actually helped by how difficult it was to obtain footage prior to the digital age since a year's work of her peak was a serious investment in those days and acquiring footage to compare it to wasn't easy. Her placement in the original list was a product of the times, but I wouldn't say it was undeserved. She was an intense performer who delivered matches that were easy to weave a narrative around and for the most part she had tremendous execution. She was good at selling and worked a nice mix of brawling and bomb throwing. Her matches could be spotty at times, but not glaringly so. If anything, I'd argue that her matches were too "story driven" with a constant focus on her hard luck story and collection of real life injuries. In the big matches that's fine, but it got to the point that it was the focus of every match. Her post early retirement work deserves reconsideration as it's possibly better than it was given credit for at the time.

I would say the same amount of research that goes into the bios for each inductee. Last year, I read the bios for both Atlantis and Dr. Wagner Sr, which were written by Steve Sims and Jose respectively, and they were both very informative, but that information should be out there prior to induction. I suppose most voters only had a vague notion of who Dr Wagner Sr and Atlantis were and abstained from voting in that section (or whatever the rules are), but generating awareness of candidates seems largely based on individual voters trying to push a guy's case either in the WON or on the internet. I don't really understand why candidates on placed on the ballot without Dave introducing them and explaining why they've been included. They just seem to pop up. Unfortunately, we can't rely on anyone from Japan or Mexico to provide us with a wealth of information because of the language barriers, and even with Europe, John Lister can correct me if I'm wrong, but most British historians don't appear to operate within the WON sphere and are oblivious to the entire thing. I realise Dave is busy and all, but if it were me I'd write to someone and say look I'm putting this guy on the ballot this year can you put together something explaining his case and I'll print it in the WON. Maybe he does do that, but it seems to be guys submitting stuff of their own volition.

Young David vs. Black Jack Mulligan (11/8/80) Not enough of this survives to really form an opinion, but considering that even Davey Boy Smith took two straight from Jack Mulligan, this notion I had that Mulligan was something more than enhancement talent has been well and truly put to bed. Alan Kilby vs. Chris Adams (12/17/80) For about a month from the end of November 1980 to just before Christmas, Joint Promotions ran a tournament to commemorate 25 years of wrestling on television (a bizarre mix of heats, injury withdrawals, quarterfinals decided by throws, and even a walk over when Breaks walked out on a match and refused to continue.) The prize was the coveted 25th Anniversary Trophy, which would look good on any wrestler's mantelpiece. Kilby and Adams made the semis, but drew and were forced to have this rematch on the night of the final. Rematches being what they were, the promoters decided to make it the first to 10 throws. Not really a match as such, but they milked it for all it was worth and the crowd were into it. A glitch in the VHS tape saw the match jump from the beginning to the end, but Kilby made it through 10-9. Alan Dennison vs. Alan Kilby (12/17/80) With the boss of World of Sport in attendance to present the trophy, both wrestlers took this fairly seriously. I was surprised by the lack of shtick from Dennison, who was usually a very talkative wrestler. He did start to pipe up deep in the match when the trophy was really on the line, but for the most part this was a pretty straight up bout from Dennison. I was rooting for Kilby despite the trophy not being very important and it being a 33 year old result just because I like the guy, but his victory was genuinely exciting and he seemed legitimately thrilled. He did this random back flip bump and his second rushed into the ring to hug him. They even brought out his wife and kids to share the moment with him. The WoS bigwig presented the trophy and Dennison got on the stick to remind everyone that what we had to remember was that this man was both deaf and dumb, as though we could somehow forget with the number of times Walton mentioned it, but that little bit of awkwardness couldn't spoil what was a great moment for a great wrestler. Clive Myers vs. Johnny Kidd (11/13/84) This was from the original broadcast and therefore was joined in progress. What was shown was decent action, but Myers won in straight falls and I was surprised that he didn't do more to put Kidd over as he was usually the type of worker to do that. Pat Patton vs. Johnny England (11/18/81) When I saw that this went the full six rounds, I struggled to think how they would fill in 30 minutes. Patton was basically a Kung Fu knockoff with an ugly green gi, and England was this mini-Adonis who was a body building brat. It was literally the type of match I would overlook every single time I flicked through the match listings, but this not only surprised me, it ended up being just about the best bout you could get from two no-name workers in a television setting. The match went for a long time without any score with England dictating terms through his strength holds and Patton looking dangerous with his quick counters until England finally scored a submission. He tried to sit on his lead and got the crowd up in arms over his time wasting while Patton did everything he could to get back into the bout. Very exciting finish to a bout I had zero expectations for.

See, nobody's going to know that about the Brazos. There's not enough serious research done about the candidates from outside the US because of the language barrier and the inaccessibility of not only numbers and figures but all sorts of basic information that we take for granted about US candidates. It becomes a matter of hearsay or voting for a candidate because some you trust endorsed them. Guys get voted in like McManus without so much as a single critique of his candidacy while someone like Sting gets put through the ringer. I don't even really think we know that much about Taue aside from the matches he wrestled and what the shows drew.

I take it that's a joke.