ohtani's jacket

Might as well cross post these: Matt D asked me if I could start doing this. I'm not the most qualified to give lucha history lessons as there are plenty of people who know more about it than me, but I'll try my best. Feel free to suggest any corrections or suggestions. Satoru Sayama y Gran Hamada vs. Perro Aguayo y Baby Face (4/13/80) Gran Hamada (green trunks) was one of the first New Japan trainees and came from a strong judo background, where he fought for one of the top universities in Japan and was a candidate for the 1972 Olympics. Due to his lack of size, he was sent to Mexico to train with the newly formed LLI promotion in 1975 and learn the lucha style. Despite having a hard time with everyday life, Hamada soon established himself in Mexico and by the time he returned to Japan in 1979 he already had a family in Mexico, which is why he split so much of his time between the two countries. Hamada had a rivalry at the time with Perro Aguayo (white trunks), one of the biggest stars in lucha libre history. Aguayo is famous for his blading and for being arguably one of the greatest brawlers in lucha history, but Aguayo vs. Hamada was, for the most part, a title match feud. This tag match from the famous El Toreo bullring was sandwiched between a pair of title matches the men had. The first was a match for the UWA World Junior Light Heavyweight Championship, which Aguayo took from Hamada on 4/22/79. The second was a title defence of Hamada’s UWA World Light Heavyweight Championship on 5/25/80, which Aguayo also took from Hamada. They would go on to have an even fiercer rivalry for the WWF Light Heavyweight Championship, which would trade hands several times in both Mexico and Japan and their rivalry crossed promotions from UWA to New Japan to Shinma’s original UWF. Eventually, they would become tag partners in both Mexico and Hamada’s UWF promotion. Sayama (tights with a stripe) was on his own excursion at the time and had tasted his first success in Mexico by winning the NWA World Middleweight Championship from Ringo Mendoza on 9/9/79, a belt he lost to El Satanico on 3/28/80, a few weeks before this tag took place. He would move to England by the end of the year and have a run under a quasi-Bruce Lee gimmick as “Sammy Lee” before heading back to Japan to done the famous Tiger Mask gimmick. Aguayo’s partner Babe Face (red and white trunks) was one of the original UWA wrestlers and a hated rudo also known for his bloody hair matches. This was on the undercard of an Antonio Inoki vs. Tiger Jeet Singh match for the UWA World Heavyweight title, which is why it was filmed by a Japanese TV crew.

I haven't seen enough 1979 WWWF to rightly have an opinion on who the MVP was, but if we're talking about who I'd like to see more of, I'd take Valentine over Patterson in a heartbeat. Patterson looked old to me, and not in a "I can't believe this guy is still so good" kind of way. I only saw two of the matches but they followed along the same lines -- early brawling segment, ponderous armwork by Dibiase and brass knuckles finish. Some of Patterson's bumping was okay, but nothing out of this world. They're not really proper matches, just the equivalent of a throwaway TV bout. As Jerry says, I'm missing the context, but it's more a case of not seeing how Patterson was the MVP than feeling that he wasn't.

Man, the Dibiase/Patterson matches I just watched were underwhelming to say the least. I can't believe we lost Brick over sub 10 minute past-his-prime Pat Patterson. And what's with his Australian sounding lisp? I'm not feeling this MVP stuff, but more power to your podcast.

Which points?

I always disliked that Four Horsemen logo.

I want to come back to this as I was dealing with a sick child yesterday. There is enough footage available to poke holes in Dandy's career, it's just that most people haven't seen it. Dandy is a new discovery for a lot of people and right now they're only watching his best stuff. With time people may develop a more balanced view of Dandy, though it's unlikely that they're going to watch a bunch of non-pimped lucha TV. Eddy has always been overrated largely because he was a favourite of so many during the Monday Night Wars era and his athletic prime coincided with the arrival of the internet. Then, after he finally adapted to the WWE style, he had that final run of his that was the icing on the cake. I like Eddy and I'm more than willing to be critical of Dandy, but Dandy's '89-90 peak ('91 really, but he was being de-emphasised that year) is a better run than Eddy had in his entire career and his post-peak years where he gained weight throughout the 90s had a far greater output than Eddy's New Japan and WCW years. Even on the indy scene from '01-04, Dandy was pretty much on the same level as Eddy. If Dandy had been in '89 shape and they'd pushed him to the cruiserweight title in WCW, instead of heavier and less athletic, it wouldn't make much difference to the comparison. I don't think Eddy winning the Best of the Super Juniors meant much, either. All it really amounted to was a title shot against Sasuke. I actually think it's Dandy's early work that's overrated. He was not a great worker prior to '88.

By this rationale, Ultimo Dragon was a better worker than El Dandy.

Enjoyed the Colon vs. Ayala feud. Ayala obviously wasn't in the same class as Hansen as a brawler, but they made up for it with plenty of blood. That shot of Colon at the end of the Texas Death Match with his face covered in blood and his features indistinguishable is one of the most insane images in wrestling history. The only match I didn't like was the Barbed Wire match. I didn't like the psychology of the heel being afraid of the gimmick and it took forever for anything to happen, then when it did the match was over. On the other hand, I was really impressed with their Loser Leaves Town match where they were able to work an excellent brawl without any props. Colon always reminds me of Harry Belafonte. He's not really a wrestler's wrestler in terms of his appearance, I find. He is one insane blader, though.

This was interesting. It didn't seem like anything else from the US in 1990. It was like a worked shoot cum puroresu love indie match a decade before you'd expect one. I didn't think it was all that well worked. Wilkins has always been average and the Kid still looked green to me. Some of the transitions were incredibly awkward and the selling was weak. Waltman wasn't really that good on the mat and Wilkins wasn't capable of carrying a guy there. Still, it was interesting to see tape watching experimenting this early in US indie wrestling.

I meant top ten all time.

Guerrero is really overrated. He had some good runs, but nothing that warranted his top 10 worker status circa '05/'06.

Giant Haystacks vs. John Quinn (Bremen 12/21/85) This was all right. I thought the psychology of John Quinn going up against Giant Haystacks was pretty sound, but it wasn't the kick-in-the-balls match that's going to get me watching a lot of Haystacks. He did throw some pretty wicked looking shots, though. And it was infinitely better than it would have been on British television. Steve Wright vs. Maske USA/Catcher in the Mask (Bamberg 4/3/83?) I don't know which name Maske went by, but it was Dave Morgan under the mask. Morgan was a solid Brit worker who spend most of his time overseas. We have footage of him from Germany, Austria and South Africa and possibly Canada. This was a decent Steve Wright showcase match with some cool Euro matwork in the early rounds. It descends into a niggly brawl with Wright getting too many payback spots for the level of niggle Morgan inflicted and shows the weakness in Wright's ability to structure matches, but if you like Wright it's worth watching. Dave Viking vs. Dave Taylor (1980s) I'm not much of a Dave Taylor fan, but this was a swank 8 minute bout. Viking was a journeyman brusier who knew how to beat people up and make it look good and Taylor sold well. Think of it as a solid WCWSN style match. Judd Harris vs. Rolo Brasil (Bamberg 4/3/83) Judd Harris was another journeyman. In fact, he was a guy who'd been on the road since the 60s. This was a similar bout to the Taylor/Viking match, but nowhere near as compelling. Harris wasn't as mobile and Brasil is decent, but not very charismatic. Pretty uneventful.

Yeah, each fall goes long and it's about a million miles removed from the Arena Mexico style at the time. If Ultimo Guerrero's had a better match, I haven't seen it.

Ultimo Guerrero vs. LA Park (4/18/04) is an awesome, awesome match. Unfortunately, it got pulled from YouTube before I had a chance to review it for my blog.

Where would you rate Los Villanos? I wish we had Los Temerarios footage from their prime. More Lobo Rubio footage would be nice. Los Bucaneros, Los Destructores and Los Intocables were all pretty solid second tier trios who grew out of the boom. I'm all for the matching outfits.

Mascara Sagrada as more bad than boring. For a long time, I considered him and Super Muneco as the two worst luchadores I'd seen, but every dog has its day and both guys have had decent performances from time to time. Count Bartelli is probably the most boring Euro worker I've come across, but he was beloved by everyone so I'm guessing his career was better at some point.

I tried taking a look at some synonyms for outsmart or outfox, but none of them sound that good with "spot" and it's generally not a big enough deal to call it a trump spot or something like that.

I didn't have a hell of a lot to add to what had already been covered in the yearbook thread, but here you go: Cien Caras, Máscara Año 2000 & Sangre Chicana vs. Konnan el Barbaro, Perro Aguayo & El Rayo de Jalisco Jr, CMLL 03/01/92 This was an excellent trios. It was actually uploaded for my benefit, but I slept on it the first time presumably because I wasn't in the mood for a brawling trios. It was more of a ringside brawl than a proper match, and it was really these guys plying their stock and trade, but the lengthy heat segment was extremely well done. The main narrative thrust was Konnan vs. Caras, but the star of the show was Sangre Chicana. It was one of those matches where you've got a guy who's charisma is so palpable it's like the glue holding everything together. Here it shone through when he tried to hold onto the leg of a guy in the crowd or when he accidentally slipped from the apron and drew laughs from the crowd. There was a tremendous range in what he was capable of, as he'd do these comedy spots where he looked like some half drunk vagabond and then jaw with the crowd and raise their ire. If you want to see a guy who is to lucha what Jake the Snake is supposed to be to US psychology then Chicana is the guy, especially this older version. Everybody else was solid and what you'd expect from this crew. Konnan had a few weak moments, but this made me want to go through his main events and see if any of them are worth a damn. That may be a dangerous proposition, but it speaks highly to how good this was.

El Canek vs. Dos Caras, UWA 02/02/92 This was on one of the earliest lucha combo tapes I bought and I remember thinking it was pretty great. Not too many people had seen it at the time, but it's been floating around on YouTube for a while now and it was part of the yearbook project where it got positive feedback. I'm not in the habit of re-watching stuff and haven't seen his in a decade or more, so I'm coming at it from a different angle. Over the years, I've enjoyed piecing together this early 90s UWA TV bit by bit and I think it would make an interesting comp at some point. The UWA style was clearly different from what CMLL were doing at the time and what AAA would present and that includes the heavyweight style. On top of that, the UWA heavyweight style was different from what was happening on the promotion's under card. It's quite fascinating to watch what has become an antiquated style. Every time I watch Caras, I have to remind myself that he was a heavyweight and not a middle or welterweight like so many of the guys I enjoy. I also find I have to increasingly curb this notion I have that he's some kind of mat genius. I think that's a notion deeply ingrained in my generation because of the artistry of his match with El Samurai, which predated the lucha maestros era, and while he certainly could wrestle that way, it wasn't the way he worked heavyweight title matches from the footage which exists. This match was all Caras and all leg locks. The matwork was good, but not good in an "Oh my God, lucha is the best thing ever" kind of way. Probably the most outstanding thing about the match was that they worked a no-nonsense pace while adhering to the traditional structures, though I suspect that may have been because of how cold it was. Canek is a guy who I've thought in the past is mechanically good, but often dead weight. I don't think he added a ton to this, but he gave Caras a lot of the offence and put him over strongly and I was certainly pleased to see Caras win the match, so it wasn't a Canek performance you could really fault. I'm not so sure how great a match it was, however. There's nothing about it that's quintessentially "lucha," which for me is a big problem, and while I appreciate the difference in the more 70s stylised UWA heavyweight wrestling, I think if you were to study the mechanics of this as a wrestling match and not a particular style, the pace of the match didn't really make up for it not having the sort of dramatic, back and forth deciding fall you associate with lucha. It was good without really kicking into great territory, although Caras continued to salvage his reputation with me with another rock solid performance. Cien Caras, Máscara Año 2000 & Sangre Chicana vs. Konnan el Barbaro, Perro Aguayo & El Rayo de Jalisco Jr, CMLL 03/01/92 This was an excellent trios. It was actually uploaded for my benefit, but I slept on it the first time presumably because I wasn't in the mood for a brawling trios. It was more of a ringside brawl than a proper match, and it was really these guys plying their stock and trade, but the lengthy heat segment was extremely well done. The main narrative thrust was Konnan vs. Caras, but the star of the show was Sangre Chicana. It was one of those matches where you've got a guy who's charisma is so palpable it's like the glue holding everything together. Here it shone through when he tried to hold onto the leg of a guy in the crowd or when he accidentally slipped from the apron and drew laughs from the crowd. There was a tremendous range in what he was capable of, as he'd do these comedy spots where he looked like some half drunk vagabond and then jaw with the crowd and raise their ire. If you want to see a guy who is to lucha what Jake the Snake is supposed to be to US psychology then Chicana is the guy, especially this older version. Everybody else was solid and what you'd expect from this crew. Konnan had a few weak moments, but this made me want to go through his main events and see if any of them are worth a damn. That may be a dangerous proposition, but it speaks highly to how good this was.

Canek may be worse than both of them. Tinieblas Jr. is kind like watching a car crash. He's just so ungodly tall compared to his opponents.

Blue Demon Jr is the most boring wrestler of all time.

I'd just call it a cut-off spot. Maybe it can be a no hope spot.

Corrected. Ha, very good.

Axel Dieter vs. Karl Dauberger (Hannover 1981) This was a shorter match than a lot of the Hannover draws, so we got to see what Dieter could do when he upped his workrate. Fun match, but three rounds is too short. If Dieter could have maintained this sort of workrate over six rounds, his matches would have been really good. Franz van Buyten vs. Ivan Strogoff (May 1981) Strogoff looked a bit like Terry Rudge and wrestled like him too, which is a very good thing. I dug this a lot as I'm a mark for van Buyten. He did some cool strength holds where he had Strogoff in a submission and lifted him off the mat. Strogoff took control of the match with some solid brawling, but the match ended up being called off as Strogoff's second (possibly Lasartesse?) got involved and caused a big brawl. Giant Haystacks vs. Klaus Wallas (Hannover 1985) This was about as good as a Klaus Wallas vs. Giant Haystacks match could be. Don't tell me this means I need to search for good Haystacks matches. Oh God, I just did a YouTube search. Axel Dieter vs. Steve Wright (Hannover 1981) This was better than I remembered. I've kind of softened on Wright since I saw his early 70s World of Sport footage, but I still consider him something of a disappointment footage wise. Nevertheless, he looked like the best opponent Dieter faced in this tournament and we got to see much more of Dieter's technical ability than in previous fights. Unfortunately, it went to a draw as per most of these Hannover fights. It's a wonder anyone ever won the Cup with the number of draws there were. I wonder if draws forced a replay? Axel Dieter vs. Klaus Kauroff (Hannover 1981) This came across as a bit of a blockbuster since Dieter had won the Hannover tournament in 1980 and Kauroff would go on to win it in '81. Kauroff was a Maurice Vachon looking wrestler who was a pretty decent grappler. There was an intensity to this that was missing from a lot of Dieter's other matches and although it ended in a draw (again) it was a compelling and worthwhile match-up. Probably Dieter's best match of the tournament. Franz van Buyten & Bobby Gaetano vs. Le Grand Vladimir & Judd Harris (Recklinghausen 3/83) Fun tag match. Van Buyten and Gaetano made an awesome babyface pair. This was the best Gaetano has looked in the matches I've seen him in. He was balling in this match. I'm pretty confident in saying that Germany had better tags than England, though they haven't knocked one out of the park yet. This was quality houseshow-ish stuff, though.