Everything posted by ohtani's jacket
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Favourite submissions holds
I like my submissions to look like Picasso so my favourite are lucha and Euro holds. In terms of finishers, the Jim Breaks Special is a good one.
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Get me started on WCW
Everybody knows the peak of the company was Jimmy Golden.
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Hiroshi Tanahashi
What's the point in harping on about structure when his structure's not that bad?
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Hiroshi Tanahashi
I don't disagree with any of this, but I think the flipside to Tanahashi not doing anything interesting is that he doesn't really do anything poorly. He's wrestling a generic New Japan main event style for an audience that pops for that sort of thing. One thing I'll say for him is that I think the "shell of an epic main event" may work in his favour. Towards the end of the 90s Japanese wrestling became far too dense. Workers were trying far too hard to fill in their matches with interesting "stuff." They'd set the bar so high that the only way to outdo themselves was to go longer and add more spots. I expected Tanahashi to take this to another extreme like modern indy workers, so I was pleasantly surprised by his pared back style. Mileage may vary on how exciting he is, but it wouldn't be fair to accuse him of excess. As for his match layouts, the hardest thing to get right in any discipline are the basics. I think he has a good sense of match structure. It's really up to his opponent to fill in the details, because in the average Tanahashi build he's selling. And it's not like he's wrestling other all-time greats. When the best opponent you face is Minoru Suzuki that's not much of a receipe for greatness. Misawa wouldn't really be Misawa if he'd been feuding with Ogawa. I get bored easily during wrestling, but for me Tanahashi has good rhythm and doesn't labour with elements he's no good at. If your matwork's no good, don't do it. Tanahashi's matwork is just standard, but he doesn't bore me to death with it like Mutoh or Chono, who had too much confidence in their wrestling ability. I'm not going to penalise a guy for recognising his weaknesses. Strikes are Tanahashi's weakest area. He should just stick to chops and slaps to the face. Ultimately, I see him as a Bon Jovi song. Big chorus with a big outro. Gets stuck in your head from time to time and fun to sing at karaoke, but not something you're going to claim as your favourite music. The songwriting is solid, but musically uninteresting for the most part. There's a place for Tanahashi like there's a place for Ishikawa and Ikeda. Again, the trouble is his fans, who are arguing that Bon Jovi are The Beatles or The Rolling Stones or something.
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Undertaker > Hogan
It depends on how old the person is. Cecil B. DeMille, Charlie Chaplan, John Ford, Frank Capra and Alfred Hitchcock were all famous in their lifetimes. Actors like Ron Howard and Clint Eastwood obviously have added notoriety. More people would have heard of Woody Allen than have seen his films. Spike Lee would be known amongst sports fans. Oliver Stone was big for a while. People may know Kubrick too.
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Undertaker > Hogan
Hughes was his own genre in the 80s. That doesn't mean that everyone will remember his name just the folks with a particular connection to his films. Spy magazine claimed that Hughes was more Capra than Capra in the early 90s.
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Hiroshi Tanahashi
When I think of aces, I think of guys who drew the loudest cheers on Dome shows like Tsuruta in 1990 and Misawa in '95. New Japan doesn't seem big enough to have an ace, at least not in the true drawing sense. To me he's just the best worker in the company, or the guy positioned as the best worker in the company. Calling him an ace is a bit like calling Dynamite Kansai or Kaoru Ito an ace. It doesn't really work without a big enough stage.
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Hiroshi Tanahashi
I thought I'd say my final piece on Tanahashi. If you compare him with a wrestler like Misawa he comes off second best in every category. Misawa had a command over his offence that allowed him to establish himself as the man both early in a match and in crunch time. And his selling went places Tanahashi doesn't go, as Misawa would take you right to the brink of an all-time great champion losing. If all the world's a stage then Misawa's was a bit more epic than most. Tanahashi doesn't have the aura of a New Japan legend either. He doesn't have the same fire as a Choshu or Hashimoto. You could argue that those workers' charisma wouldn't play to the kind of houses New Japan draws, but then again if Tanahashi had the aura of a Hashimoto perhaps they'd be drawing bigger houses. In any event, I can see the argument that he doesn't live up to past champions. His lineage is more along the lines of a Fujinami or Mutoh than the guys who defined the ace role. But he is a decent worker. He can't work the mat, his strikes aren't very good and he's not a details guy, but he's good at moving a match forward. I think he realises he's nothing special on the mat, so instead of spending large chunks of the match in boring holds he tends to move briskly through the build to each match and get to the meat and potatoes of what he's good at, which is dropping bombs and working near falls. Some workers like to control a match and use the same patterns to the extent that a formula develops, but Tanahashi tends to give the build to his opponent so that if he's wrestling Okada it feels like he's working an Okada style match, and if he's working Suzuki it feels like he's working a Suzuki style match, and so on. That's very different to say an Akira Hokuto or Aja Kong. But I don't think this means he's getting carried in the matches that his critics like. It's just the way he works. Personally, I don't have a problem with his offence. He likes to work light, but apart from that I think his move set is fine. He doesn't have any one particular outstanding hold or maneuver, but he has enough suplex and dive variations to produce the kind of excitement he's shooting for. The only thing I really hate is the oft mentioned forearm exchange and his shitty posing. His lock up stance is a bit annoying at times as well. The problem is that he's massively overrated by Meltzer and others. Why this is I'm not sure. For whatever reason, the timing is right for a new workrate fave. The things that are said about Tanahashi and the Okada series are like Meltzer being drunk on a cocktail of Kurt Angle and Edge. Unfortunately, this sort of championing creates a backlash against a guy who is basically working hard and trying to have good matches. I told myself I wouldn't hold the hype against him when I started this mini-project because it's ridiculously unfair to expect him to be one of the best workers ever. I can't say I became a fan, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at seeing him again or watching him live. Of all Dave's favourites with annoying traits like Toyota etc, I thought Tanahadhi was genuinely one of the least offensive. No he doesn't have brilliant psychology but neither do favourites like Cena, Daniel Bryan or CM Punk if we were to examine them a little harder. I mean I watched the Cena/Bryan SummerSlam match while watching these Tanahashi bouts and there were some cool spots, but it wasn't as dramatic as Tanahashi's biggest matches this year. The arc to Tanahashi's big matches is generally strong and you feel like you've watched a contest. So, better than the pretty boy wannabe rock star he looks like but not an all-time great. I'd rather watch him than all but a few workers in the history of New Japan, but too much has been made of him as both a great worker and a poor one.
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Hiroshi Tanahashi
I liked this a good bit more on re-watch. I still think it didn't do Tanahashi any favours by exposing his striking, but the match moved on from strike exchanges and so will I. I'm not sure this was better than most of Tanahashi's matches psychology-wise. Ishii had some nice little touches where he'd cut off Tanahashi's signature stuff, much like Minoru Suzuki, and I liked his selling, particularly the way he took the bump off that released suplex, but if you're being a stickler then this was very much a bout where they went down one avenue, took a right and went down another. Tanahashi worked over Ishii's legs, got some purchase on the Texas Clover Leaf and then it was off doing suplexes and lariats and High Fly Flows where they'd sell the impact well but pop up to attempt their next finisher. I can ignore that sort of stuff if the crowd is into it and it's not like I'm watching this stuff to get anything of real substance, I just thought the finishing stretch wasn't much different than your standard Tanahashi match.
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Hiroshi Tanahashi
Tanahashi vs. Okada, 10/13/13 * This had a solid albeit unspectacular build, but there were two things that were jarring for me. The first was that God awful spot where they were standing toe-to-toe and Tanahashi turned his head to face the crowd. Okada turned his head the same way and they soaked in the crowd applause, then they went right to left with the same synchronized bullshit. That was some weird Rock-like shit. * The other spot that took me out of the match was when Tanahashi faked a knee injury for no discernible reason. Who plays possum that early in a match? It got a pop from the crowd and the commentator made a big deal out of it, but I don't think it came across the way Tanahashi intended because I sure as hell missed the point. * This was a slow burner compared to some of their more highly rated bouts. Compared with their other slow burners (Tokyo Dome and the G-1 draw), I thought they made some headway on working a long bout. I appreciated that they tried new things. There was a greater focus on submissions as a possible finish and they teased both a countout and double knockout. There was the dreaded forearm exchange, but at least it led to some niggly armwork from Tanahashi. * I liked that instead of putting his knees up to counter the High-Fly Flow Okada rolled to the outside (which led to Tanahashi's plancha), but they did the knees up counter later on. Yeah, it's pro-wrestling and all, but they use that spot too often, especially when Tanahashi never misses if his opponent is face down. * I still love Okada's dropkicks and I liked that they factored into the finish. He looked pretty good in this match. Some of his stuff was a bit iffy, but the NJPW television production doesn't help at times. The finish was slightly botched, which stood out like a sore thumb since it was their counter sequence that a lot of people can't stomach, but setting that aside I thought the match did a really good job of presenting Okada as a worthy champion who withstood a strong challenge from the guy he's surpassed. It wasn't my favourite of their bouts, but I thought it achieved its goals. It was somewhere around the four star mark on my adjusted "this isn't as good as the stuff I grew up on, but I'm keeping an open mind about it" scale.
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Most boring wrestler of all time?
Maybe Virgil could've carried the Rougeaus' bags or been their pool cleaner in Memphis, Tennessee. Or maybe he was the guy telling all the girls the Rougeaus are on their way.
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Most boring wrestler of all time?
But the angle was rich white guy treats black bodyguard like a slave. If Honky replaces Dibiase does it become Elvis impersonator steals music from black bodyguard? Virgil pens Rhythm and Blues' hits and gets no royalties?
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Most boring wrestler of all time?
Why would Honky Tonk Man or Valentine have a bodyguard? The feud worked because people wanted to see Virgil turn on Dibiase not just turn face. I don't think anybody gave a crap about a Virgil face turn.
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Hiroshi Tanahashi
I'll watch it again in case I was in a funny mood.
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Most boring wrestler of all time?
Liz and Randy getting married? That was like daytime soap stars going to the altar. I'm in the Boss Man camp but the Virgil stuff was some of the best stuff Dibiase did in the WWF.
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Most boring wrestler of all time?
Of course it had something to do with Dibiase. Dibiase was brilliant in the Virgil feud. Vince had so little faith in Virgil that he got Piper to be his talking head.
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Hiroshi Tanahashi
Tanahashi vs. Ishii, 11/9/13 * I didn't care for this much. It seemed like they were trying to work a revenge/grudge match for Tanahashi's loss to Ishii in the G-1 as there was plenty of niggle and they "stiffed" each other a lot, but striking isn't Tanahashi's forte, and while he again showed his versatility by working a different style of match, it felt a bit forced, especially the crap they were saying to each other in Japanese. * It didn't help that they started off with that forearm exchange spot. That is worse than any chop exchange ever. This one was particularly bad because it was blatant that Ishii was hitting Tanahashi's hair and not his jaw. * Mostly, though, this suffered from not being as exciting as their G-1 match. There was no point in rehashing that bout, so they had the right idea with this match it just pointed too far in the direction of Tanahashi's limitations.
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Most boring wrestler of all time?
What case for Dibiase? That was part of your thousand and one aborted projects, mister.
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Hiroshi Tanahashi
The no selling doesn't really bother me as the limb work is only really there to fill in time and isn't that important. I suppose if Naito had consistently sold his injury the match may have been elevated to the kind of status that some people are giving Tanahashi's matches (i.e. all-time great match), but it doesn't bug me. I'm anti-limb work psychology to begin with, which is another reason why I don't care so much. I should also point out that I thought it was a MOTYC relative to 2013 and not some gold standard for MOTY. Since there has to be a MOTY for the concept to mean anything, I usually adjust my standards. Also, I only watched it once and will probably never watch it again and got caught up in the excitement along with the crowd. Tanahashi's not great at details. The only worker who's been any good at details so far has been Minoru Suzuki. Tanahashi and his contemporaries go for the big pop, but I think the layouts are generally good.
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Hiroshi Tanahashi
Tanahashi vs. Anderson, 2/10/13 * This was pretty good. I don't know how good Anderson is usually, but this was the first time for me to see Tanahashi work a more traditional US pro-wrestling build. It's probably fair to say that Anderson provided most of the details since Tanahashi was really selling before launching into his signature stuff, but I'll say one thing for Tanahashi, he's versatile. Because he often gives the body of the match to his opponent he often winds up working his opponent's style and does a pretty good job of it most of the time. * Where this fell apart for me a bit as the finishing stretch or what you might call the final quarter. I thought Anderson, who'd been pretty good up until this point, got caught up in the adrenaline rush of posing and forgot to sell fatigue. The New Japan style is predicated on move after move and close-ups of exhausted wrestlers gasping for air. It doesn't seem like Anderson has mastered that yet. Tanahashi vs. Naito, 8/11/13 * Naito's a weird looking guy. I asked my wife if she knew what was up with this Naito guy and she said that she liked his style. His eyes remind me of Tatsuya Nakadai. * This was a great match except for the part where they did forearm smash exchanges. Then they blew the spot directly after that. That as the first time I've thought that something in a Tanahashi match is awful. * I would have marked out if Naito had won with that submission he had on Tanahashi, but it wasn't to be. There was a nice dragon suplex nearfall shortly afterwards that made up for it, but I would have praised Tanahashi to the moon if he'd tapped in that hold. The actual finish was good, mind you. Was that Kazuo Yamazaki marking out on commentary? * Man, Tanahashi is not afraid to put people over. This was the first time I've seen Naito and I was sucked right in. I can't understand these people who say Tanahashi is a bad wrestler. His matches are almost always exciting. He can't work the mat, he doesn't have great strikes and he's not a details guy, but he's a good worker. A bit repetitive at times, but he's having an outstanding year in terms of maint events. This was a strong four and a half stars, MOTYC.
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Recent lucha
Blue Panther/Negro Casas/Atlantis vs. Black Terry/Negro Navarro/Solar, CMLL 8/16/13 This was Blue Panther's 35th Anniversary match so he got to wear his mask again for the night and work with probably the five most recognisable lucha maestros in the business. The most notable thing from a Panther perspective was his opening exchanges with Solar. When I first got into lucha, Solar vs. Panther was supposed to be this legendary match-up kind of like Solar vs. Navarro before You Tube was inundated with Solar vs. Navarro. Later on, when I got wised up a bit, I realised there's not that much Solar vs. Panther on tape and what does exist isn't that legendary. Still, the exchanges here were fun and the type of lucha you don't see a lot of in CMLL these days. This was also a good opportunity to see Terry and Navarro work. There hasn't been a lot of good Terry & Navarro this year, not because they've slipped but because there hasn't been much that's made tape and Terry hasn't had a feud to sink his teeth into, which is the kind of wrestling he excels at as he's a real character actor type of wrestler. I liked that Navarro and Casas tried to get something going between falls instead of this being your typical maestros exhibit, and Terry vs. Casas, for the time that it lasted, looked like a match-up I'd like to see. This isn't essential, but it will appeal to maestros fans. Do yourself a favour and watch the TV version though as the handheld doesn't capture the matwork well. Rush/Terrible/Vangellys vs. Shocker/Negros Casas/Valiente, CMLL 9/3/13 The only reason to watch this is for the Casas/Rush exchanges, but after a slow beginning it picked up with the technicos' comeback. This feud seems to have breathed new life into Shocker and he actually looked pretty good here working between the ropes and not only punching. Vangellys was pretty solid too. It wasn't a match with a huge amount of substance, but they went at a decent clip and there were some cool spots. Valiente had a nice dive. As a weekly kind of Rush vs. Casas installment it was enjoyable. Actually, it was even pretty decent as a Rush showcase. What I'm getting at is that it's a recommendation. Super Porky vs. Rey Escorpion, hair vs. hair, CMLL 10/18/13 The first time I saw this I thought it sucked. Not because it isn't the bloodbath that I think cabellera contra cabellera matches should be, but because it sucked as a worked shoot. I didn't expect it to be RINGS and I braced myself for the fact that it was Super Porky and Rey Escorpion trying to do a worked shoot, but I still thought it sucked. Watching it again, I don't think it sucked. It wasn't any good, but there were a couple of spots I thought were okay. Still, it's not something they should ever try again. At least not with Porky or best two out of three falls.
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When did Ric Flair start to "Wooooooo!"?
According to Flair, he did it first in 1974 and got it from the Jerry Lee Lewis song Great Balls of Fire, and as we all know Flair is never wrong about these things.
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Hiroshi Tanahashi
Tanahashi vs. Shibata, 8/11/13 * This was my least favourite Tanahashi match so far. The style clash did nothing for me. Tanahashi did all right considering that matwork and strikes aren't really his forte, but Shibata is a poor shoot style worker. I'm pretty pig headed about what I like in shoot style, but I don't buy his shit for a second. He reminds me of a shitty UWF-i style worker. If anybody thinks he's good suggest some matches.
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The Beginner's Guide To British Wrestling
Axel Dieter vs. Pat Roach II (Hannover 1981) These two fought three times during the 1981 Hannover tournament. The first two matches ended without a winner and Dieter won the final match. This was one of the matches without a winner. Whether it was the first or the second, I'm not sure, but try as they might they didn't seem to have a great match in them. Roach dominated most of the bout before Dieter made a comeback in the final fall and the match ended with Dieter continuously throwing Roach over the top rope, presumably after time had expired. I love Pat Roach, but he couldn't deliver the same sort of beating as Moose Morowski. I'm guessing it's a stylistic difference between North America and England, since outside of the halls they never really brawled in England. Some of the finer details may have been better in close-up, but I wouldn't rank this stuff among the better moments of Pat's career. Dieter won the Hannover World Cup five or six times, which in my mind makes him like the German Tibor Szakacs, who won the Royal Albert Hall Tournament Trophy five times, but much like Szakacs we have nothing from Dieter's prime and he comes across in these '81 Hannover matches as having about as much charisma as Ray Steele. Axel Dieter/UFO vs. Ed Wiskoski/Moose Morowski (Hannover 9/15/81) This was probably the best tag match I've seen from Europe covering as much 60s-80s footage as I can find. It's probably no surprise that three out of the four competitors are North American. Christ knows why it had to go so long. Thirty minutes plus without a winner and without the hot finish it needed to be a surefire nomination for the Europe set, but still it was a proper tag match. Funnily enough, they didn't apply Southern style tag psychology, it was just solidly worked instead of being treated like some kind of amazing stip match where there's no wrestling. Portland fans may be interested in Wiskoski's work, perhaps.
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If Not Flair Then Who?
Isn't there a possibility that they would have stuck with Race?