ohtani's jacket

Regarding CMLL, don't forget this one: 2/14/92 CMLL: Huracan Sevilla vs Bestia Salvaje (Hair vs Hair) - Arena Mexico This is a fantastic match where a lot of people haven't seen. You might want to take a look at the trios surrounding Dandy vs. Casas as well as they really add to the match. And you need to find some match that shows how great Pierroth was that year. There's a great Sangre Chicana/Pero Aguayo hair match from '92 CMLL as well.

Regarding Joshi, outside of the well known matches I think these are easy to overlook: 11/02/92 - Malenko & Hasegawa vs. Toyota & Yamada (TLTB) 12/13/92 - Kong & K. Inoue vs. Toyota & Yamada (TLTB Final) TLTB matches -- big yearly tag tournament, which along with the JGP singles tournament was an important event for AJW. The first match isn't essential but it was a good league match that Coey discovered when he went back through all this stuff. The final was his baby as no-one had ever pimped it before and it was his discovery. 04/29/92 - T. Inoue vs. Yoshida (All Japan Singles) 07/05/92 - K. Inoue vs. Yoshida (JGP Blue) 08/30/92 - Yoshida vs. Toyota These are only three star matches or what have you, but later on Yoshida will be featured in the '99 yearbook and I think it gives some kind of context as to what was happening further down the card. Joshi is a bit unique in the sense that its fans often watched the entire cards instead of the pimped main events and thus people tend to be fans of the midcarders. JWP wasn't very good in 1992. There was an interpromotional tag that used to be pimped, but I don't think it's very good. I like some of the Ozaki/Kansai singles matches but I can't see anyone else digging them too much. Jerome wrote a really great rundown of 1992 Joshi once including some of the better JWP matches that year.

I don't really think this is a pressing concern for people anymore. I can't imagine people ever getting as involved in a topic like this as they may have done in the past. If you asked people now who they thought the greatest of all-time were, you'd get a bunch of new choices from folk who like "digging in the crates" for new stuff and standard answers from folks who've either stopped watching or only watch a bit. I agree with MJH. I don't think there's all that many people pushing the names you've mentioned. Jerome's fretting about people being anti-Takada, but that amounts to all of four or five people. Speaking for myself, finding new workers is the only thing that keeps me interested in wrestling and seeing any list of great workers with names like Jumbo or Kawada instantly bores me. This tends to influence my own wrestling opinions a lot, but it can'be helped. New is better for me, and revised opinions are paramount. Personally, I'd like things to go further. I'd love for there to be a great overall of the thinking about lucha, for example, but I can't see it happening. All told, I think wrestling opinions are becoming less and less important.

Assuming they have a gay fanbase, that's hardly surprising considering it's marketed to Japanese women in their twenties. The whole idea is stolen from Johnny's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_%26_Associates), and I assume those guys have their share of gay fans too.

Wrestling isn't marketed in Japan with gay overtones and porn for the most part is socially acceptable anyway.

Dustin Rhodes in a golden bodysuit portraying a glamourous manipulative sex-freak with a tiny female with huge boobs smoking a cigar at his side. It sounds so much better decontructed than it was on screen. All I can remember is Goldust boring the shit out of me.

Rayo De Jalisco Jr. vs. Apolo Dantes, CMLL 5/31/96 -- epic Rayo match (Rayo being a guy who busts out a big match about once a year like most other Mexican heavyweights.) Probably Dantes' best match as well, as his selling is the perfect foil for Rayo's big match offence. Was part of the abandoned DVDVR Lucha March Madness tournament. Mascarita Magica vs. Damiancito El Guerrero (CMLL Minis Title), CMLL 2/27/96 -- not the best minis match from this era (those come in '97), but worth considering for the fact that the majority of people are oblivious to how good the Mexican minis are. Mayumi Ozaki vs. Hiromi Yagi, JWP 3/3/96 -- lengthy television match between Ozaki and one of the most promising workers of the 90s Hiromi Yagi. Quite long so probably has more flaws than I remember, but this along with the Amano pledging angle before and afterwards give more light to what Ozaki was doing in 1996. Personally, I think she was one of the more interesting workers that year. There's a bunch of ***-*** 1/2 star OZ Academy matches split between JWP and GAEA but I can't remember which one stands out enough to encapsulate them all. Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Kazushi Sakuraba, UWF-i 5/27/96 -- I hate UWF-i like there's no tomorrow, but IIRC this is Tamura's final match before giving them the big finger. He was toying with the idea of heading to Pancrase and you can see how heavily influenced both these guys were by what was happening with that fed. Really beautiful matwork in this match.

I don't understand why people like the Goldust gimmick so much.

All of these matches from Bihari's list need to be on the set: 1/13/91 UWA: El Hijo Del Santo vs Brazo De Oro (Mask vs Hair) - El Toreo De Naucalpan 2/8/91 CMLL: Kato Kung Lee/Super Astro/Volador vs Brazo De Oro/Brazo De Plata/El Brazo - Arena Coliseo 5/3/91 CMLL: El Dandy/Popitekus/Super Astro vs Brazo De Oro/Brazo De Plata/El Brazo - Arena Coliseo 5/17/91 CMLL: Atlantis/Mascara Sagrada/Octagon vs Brazo De Oro/Brazo De Plata/El Brazo (Mexican National Trios Titles) - Arena Coliseo 5/17/91 WWA: El Hijo Del Santo vs Negro Casas (UWA Welterweight Title) - Auditorio De Tijuana 7/26/91 CMLL: Brazo De Oro/Brazo De Plata/El Brazo vs Chavo Guerrero/Eddy Guerrero/Mando Guerrero - Arena Coliseo 8/9/91 CMLL: Atlantis vs Blue Panther (NWA Middleweight Title) - Arena Mexico 11/1/91 CMLL: Octagon vs Fuerza Guerrera - Arena Coliseo 11/22/91 CMLL: Brazo De Oro/Brazo De Plata/El Brazo vs MS-1/Pirata Morgan/Satanico (CMLL Trios Titles) - Arena Mexico There's also this match which tomk used to pimp -- El Dandy/Apolo Dantes/Black Magic (Norman Smiley) vs. Javier Cruz/Pierroth Jr./Blue Panther, 8/18/91 And please, please, please do not forget the mother of all lucha matches -- Trio Fantasia vs. Thundercats, (Masks vs. Masks), 12/8/91 Everything else fits into the interesting for lucha fans category, but you might be tempted to include some of the stuff that was going on at the top of the card which mostly involved Konnan, Pero and Caras.

I spoke to Jose about this years ago and he couldn't shed much light on it, either. Santo was only really a rudo in Arena Mexico and a technico everywhere else, and he never really embraced "rudoism." It was more a case that he was on the opposite side because of his hatred for Casas but even that wasn't expressed very well in the ring. As the feud continues, Casas and Felino behave like rudos half the time and Santo hardly ever gets along with Bestia or Scorpio whose out and out "rudoism" bothers him. He never really turned all the way despite how long he stayed on the rudo side, which is interesting considering how drawn out his technico turn was. As far as this match goes, they probably ran it too soon after the trios matches.

No, but I have heard good things about it. I would be interested in seeing other clean, straightforward matches like this, even ones that aren't as good as this one. I know the '94 match has been praised, but I would imagine there are some other good matches like this on week-to-week TV, right? They don't just do mat-based matches every couple of years like this, do they? Almost all lucha title matches in this era were mat-based, but we're restricted by what made TV. Not all of the TV from the 90s is available and sometimes title matches are clipped. Still, there's a fair few that can be included on future sets.

The Santo heel turn was a confusing piece of booking. It wasn't really a heel turn in the Hogan sense so you can't think about it like that. It'll drive you nuts if you try to think about it in those terms. The whole thing is extremely overrated as an angle, though it did produce some excellent matches in the summer of '97. I assume the reason they booked a triangle match was because they'd already run Casas vs. Santo at the Anniversary show in September and wanted to save the hair vs. mask match for the following year.

Don't get me wrong, I love this fight and think Meltzer's comments are probably closer to the truth than not. It just stuck out like a sore thumb when I was scanning through Loss' match rankings.

Why did you include a shoot on the set?

I still think this is one of the all-time great promos. I thought the loose cannon stuff sucked in WCW but this was like the Richard Pryor live and uncut version.

Jake Roberts vs. Ricky Steamboat, MSG 5/19/86 Jake Roberts vs. Ricky Steamboat, Spectrum 5/31/86 I forgot that Steamboat's original WWF theme was Sirius. That's such a kick-ass theme for the intro to a grudge match. Steamboat looks AWESOME waiting for Roberts in MSG. These are essentially the same match with the same ref spots and the same finish. The Spectrum match is a bit longer for no other reason than it's slower than the MSG match, but the brawling looks a thousand times better than MSG because of the camera set-ups. One of the things I noticed when we did the WWF poll over at Smarkschoice was how shitty the MSG camera work was, but here it makes Steamboat look like a woman. Everybody knows that you have to shoot punches and most other contact in wrestling from an angle that hides the daylight, but it seems as though the MSG guys didn't know how to shoot wrestling. It's a shame really because MSG usually had better heat than Philly. Neither match is great, but fun in a continuation of the feud kind of way. They have a pull apart at the end where they keep doing Lou Thesz press takedowns and punching each other while midcard acts coming running out to separate them. That reminds me of how excited I used to be when people came running out to help. There was always that anticipation of "Who's it gonna be? Who's it gonna be?"

Barry Windham vs. Johnny B Badd (Worldwide 05/22/93) This was such a kick-ass TV match. Barry's speciality really was short TV matches where he's dropping bombs as opposed to long NWA style title matches. He did a really beautiful job controlling the flow and pace of this match. It looked like Windham had the match in hand, but just when you thought it was over Badd rocked Windham with a series of nearfalls. I watched this for the WCW poll, but even though I've seen it before it was exciting all over again. The finish was awesome too, as Barry won without using a finisher. I also watched a Rude/Badd match from '94 which has left me convinced that Rude was god awful at least 50% of the time. Really poor match. Very similar to his mind-numbling bad series with Dustin in '93, where the only good thing about the matches is the jawing before they lock-up.

I guess it's a bad time to point out that the '94 Regal/Badd matches aren't put together well.

I guess I stadn corrected, then. It must've taken on a life of its own somehow, because I've never encountered any group of fans who considered Badd a top 20 worker.

Ultimate Warrior vs. The Macho King Randy Savage, 1/21/91 I know that Warrior is the complete opposite of what a good worker is supposed to be and that it's Savage who is carrying him in this match, but after watching the most God foresaken Jake Roberts vs. Rick Rude match the other day I've reached the conclusion that I'd much rather watch an Ultimate Warrior match than a Rick Rude one. In fact, the way I feel about Rick Rude matches right now I figure his famous carry of Ultimate Warrior was as beneficial a match-up for Rude as it was for Warrior. This was a steel cage match Warrior and Savage had a couple of days after the "he said no" angle at Royal Rumble '91. I watched this and a title vs. title match they had from '89 and this was probably the better match. Like almost all WWF matches it had a mindnumblingly boring dip in the middle, but the beginning and end were good. I don't know why the WWF had such poor heat segments in their matches, but they did. The weird thing about this match is that after rejecting Sherri's blowjob at Royal Rumble '91, Warrior strips her to her underwear in this match. Not only that, but he stares at her skirt talking to it. I'm no lip reader, but he was questioning his destiny right there. There's a pull apart at the end with the Nasty Boys coming to Savage's aid, and Sherri returns in a new dress for a bit more male on female violence.

Lord Steven Regal vs. Johnny B. Badd, Clash of the Champions XXV (11/10/93) Regal vs. Badd was a fun match-up, not only because the wrestling was decent but because Badd was exactly the sort of commoner that his Lordship despised. This wasn't a particularly great match (it was completely devoid of a third act, if you care to think about wrestling in those terms), but for the life of me I can't figure out why Mero had such a bad rep as a worker. Seems like it was completely personal or disdain for the gimmick. He kinda reminds me of Zenk in that he had a look that people (read: sheet readers) don't want to like. A bit too bodybuilder-ish and a bit too pretty. Not to mention the tassles! Never a good thing if you want to get over with the sheet readers. Anyway, he's a guy who needs his reputation restored along with Buff Bagwell.

Ted Dibiase vs. Virgil, 9/10/91 Ted Dibiase vs. Virgil, 11/11/91 I love this feud. When I was a kid, we only got Superstars and pay-per-views on TV, which meant we could only really follow the storylines that carried through into the annual events. No matter how bad the matches were, there was always something satisfying about the pay-offs to even the stupidest of feuds. And if you ask me, the pay-off to Virgil/Dibiase was IMMENSE. Right up there with my favourite pieces of early 90s WWF booking. These matches couldn't possibly live up to Piper spluttering all over the place (and making dodgy analogies to the slave trade), but they were a fun look at Ted's quest to win the title back. The second match was better than the first, which was somewhat ruined by having Randy Savage as the guest referee. Ted leads the way like he did in the SummerSlam match w/ great heel gusto, but I was impressed with Virgil's babyface timing and I kind of dig his streetwise boxing style, not that it ever really worked against anyone other than Dibiase. Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, 2/17/87 This was a couple of months after their heel vs. heel match on SNME, and Jake was clearly the babyface this time round. The match veered on the simple side a bit too much and didn't have much action for a sub-10 minute match, but the crowd were into it. Probably the most interesting thing about it was that they gave Jake the clean win with the DDT. 123 Kid vs. Bob Backlund, Raw 11/14/94 This was a fun TV match. It was pretty much Waltman trying to avoid the crossface chickenwing as best he could and then a pull apart with Bret Hart where Backlund psyched Bret out by applying the hold and letting it go, but it was a really neat piece of TV. I really dig it when the WWF (of all companies) do wrestling hold angles.

It's a handheld.

Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund, MSG 6/12/93 This was pretty good. I'm very much a reformed Bret fan at this point, but it was more of a cross between a Bret match and a Backlund match than the usual Bret mode, which at least made it semi-interesting. It was pretty standard fare from a work perspective -- sit in a hold, stand-up and do something, get a pop, sit back down -- and neither guy being the one in "charge" hurts the match from time to time, but it's the kind of match you watch for the significance of the match-up, and in that sense it's more meaningful than the usual handheld.