ohtani's jacket

Is that 70s footage 8mm footage? He's listed as being on ITV three times in 1965 against Ian Campbell, Ezzard Hart and Peter Maivia. Not sure if the footage exists in the archives but it feels like something that would be obtainable.

If the people who are championing women's wrestling this time round don't like Toyota then I guess there's not much hope for her. I don't understand how people can go through the footage and not understand her better, but if that's how people feel then there's not much that can be done about it.

There's no way you can watch one of Toyota's big matches and not come away thinking she pushed herself to the limit. She leaves it out there on the canvas every time even if she waits until the stretch run in some matches. She was actually quite good at short term selling, or "in the moment" selling, but obviously she wasn't great at long term selling, or callbacks to earlier work, barring the odd exception here and there. I tend to focus on the total impact of the match, but I know that other people like consistency from one moment to the next. Long term selling can be admirable, but if you do it in each and every match, how am I not supposed to believe that your leg or knee is a total wreck? Shouldn't you have a permanent limp and hobble around the entire time? Why are you fine at the beginning of the next match? In that sense, there is no such thing as perfect selling. How often do you watch a Joshi match where they do the submission work in the early going and then by the end of the bout it's meaningless? Aside from being a time killer and a chance to catch their breath, most of the time they're just asserting their dominance over the other worker and doing some trash talking. It's rare that there's any sort of strategic focus to the limbwork. If Toyota was thrown off the Hell in a Cell, I think she would sell it until some kind of transition onto offense. I think she'd lay around for longer than a minute. I actually think she'd sell it pretty well. Then she'd get whipped into the ropes, catch herself, and launch a dropkick off the second rope. Something like that.

I can't remember too many Minami singles matches off the top of my head. I am pretty sure the other matches that had together were decent but nowhere near as good. I'm not a huge fan of Aja even in her prime, though I do respect her and there are matches and performances that I hold in high regard. The reason I say it's problematic is that it's only a matter of time before someone tries to define the length of time that Aja was good and tries to paint her early work as a positive. I understand people pushing their favorites, and I also understand that if you like a worker you're probably more inclined to think their pre/post primes were better than they're given credit for. I'm sure I'd do the same for my favorites. I don't want to say that's what's happening with Hokuto, but I do know from personal experience that when you deep dive a promotion or style, it's an entirely different perspective from cherry picking other folks' recommendations. Pretty much every WoS wrestler that I couldn't stand at one point or another I built a tolerance for after watching all of their matches. If you're watching all of the available AJW then I imagine you're developing a fondness for the midcarders, and you're getting into the crew as a whole, and perhaps you're seeing in great detail how Hokuto is head and shoulders above her peers, which she pretty much was athletically except for Nagahori. Folks are not going to be able to process that level of detail. Perhaps they'll take people's word for it, but I think they need to see it instantly in the matches. When I watch Hokuto's 80s work, for example, I don't see the GOAT or the BITW. I see a promising youngster. I think the Chigusa vs. Hokuto match is fantastic, but in my mind Chigusa is on another level in that match. Just like Bull was when Hokuto feuded with her. When Hokuto wrestles Toyota and Minami then I see her against her peers and can make that direct comparison, but I am not convinced that Hokuto had the immediate impact that say Yokota did. Her early work is a positive, for sure, but I don't see it as a trump card.

I actually re-watched that Ito/Toyota match tonight. Really good match. Miles better than the return match. Picking one Toyota match is tough. I like the Big Egg choice. The first matches that come to mind for me are the '89 Toyota vs. Yamada, the '93 JGP match against Fukuoka, and the '98 Kandori match. Those are matches thatches that have stuck in my head.

Man, this was a blast. I'd been meaning to watch this since Patterson died. I love me a good WWF escape rules cage match and this was one of the best ever. Patterson proved here that you can have an intensity, bloody brawl in a WWF cage match while still fighting tooth and nail to escape the cage. Backlund was great in his role as well. As Vince mentions, brawling was against type for Bob, but he didn't back down and took the fight to Patterson. You couldn't have asked for more from this match. Vince was great on commentary and the MSG fans were amazing during this era. I love the cops everywhere and the entire atmosphere. That living and breathing 70s NY culture. You can't beat it anywhere in the wrestling world. This was the most fun I've had watching wrestling in forever.

I like Marine Wolves Hokuto as much as the next guy. The 4/91 Minami match was always one of my favorite Hokuto matches back in the day. But as soon as people start chucking out BITW claims my mind starts rattling off a list of alternative names. I don't think that sort of hyperbole does wrestlers any favors. Dave's comments are problematic in that they ignore Bull and don't paint Aja in a great light.

This was more of a proto version of their matches later on the year but Quance remains one of the discoveries of the year.

Cheers.

I just watched Toyota's final AJW match the other day. It's not that good, but when she walked off I couldn't help but think that woman did her thing and left her mark. All those girls started off as kids, a lot of them never made it, and a lot of them never made it that far, but you can't deny that Toyota was one of the biggest stars to ever grace an AJW ring. I hate all that pillar symbolism shit, but she was one of the pillars of the the last era of AJW and the last one to leave. I don't expect her to be popular among voters, but I hope folks don't make her a scapegoat for whatever flaws they think Joshi has. For every criticism you can make of Toyota, the rest of them do it too. I have never seen a Joshi wrestler, even the ones with strong reps, that don't drop their selling or blow spots. Toyota may be more guilty of it than most, but what that tells me is that there is something intrinsic in the style that causes this happen. A bit like there is something intrinsic in lucha that causes it to seem muddled and confusing at times. The question then becomes is this something we should simply accept (i.e. it's the nature of the style), or is it a flaw in the style that the workers are responsible for. I have always leaned toward the former. If you start leaning toward the latter then I think you need to blame the workers who lay the foundation like Akagi and Yokota, and I don't see anyone doing that.

Can someone recommend a half dozen or so Martel matches?

I watched a couple of her matches from 1997. They were decent, but I don't think they help her case. Her work doesn't completely fall off a cliff, but she reaches a point where she's not having great matches anymore. Others may see it differently, but to me great matches, or great performances at the minimum, are the burden of expectation that Hokuto carries. Hokuto set the bar extremely high; to the point she was on par with contemporaries like Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, etc. You won't watch those wrestlers hoping to see something decent. You expect greatness from those wrestlers, and personally I put the same expectations on Hokuto, which is a sign of respect as much as a fan expectation. I wouldn't recommend her later stuff (outside of the Satomura match) unless you're into completionism and want to see a wrestler at all stages of their career. I'm not sure why there was a decline. I suppose it's pointless to speculate. I feel as though if she had come back as a part time freelancer/attraction that she could have had more memorable programs, but I did like her tag work in GAEA at times and that Showa era faction she was part of was fun. I kind of wish promotions had used her the way they used Aja. Another possibility is that the character was tired. She'd said all she had to say and the character reached a fitting end when injuries robbed her of her greatest aspiration and forced her to semi-retire. That was a fitting, tragic end to her character's story arc. Of course, wrestling isn't like written literature and we shouldn't expect storybook endings, but the Dangerous Queen character in these GAEA matches isn't as engaging.

Completely agree about her being one of the greatest babyfaces of all-time.

Yes, several times. It's an emotional match and one of the better swan songs in wrestling history.

Yes, that's the one.

I really liked Takako's narrative during the inter-promotional era. It was fun to watch her growth during that period. Some of her stuff with Kyoko is good as well, but I didn't see much value in her freelance work and she strikes me as more of a tag wrestler than an all-round great.

I actually wrote it before I saw your reply. I think their peak ran until 2000, btw. The big AJW cage match from that year is one of the best matches of 2000.

I don't believe for a second that Hokuto was one of the best workers in the early during the 80s and early 90s, but Jetlag's recent reviews have left me interested in her GAEA work. I quite liked the little of it I saw from 2000-02. I have to say those squash matches that were posted did little for me.

How much new Cesca footage is there, anyway? I can't remember off the top of my head. Rene Ben Chemoul was hyped as the best ever in the French sources I read. He's clearly not. I would call him the Johnny Saint of catch for as overrated as he is, but Saint had better matches than Ben Chemoul.

LCO had a handful of classic matches but the average LCO match is unbearable. Shimoda was good at what she did, but she wouldn't rank very high on my list of the 100 best Joshi workers let alone the 100 best workers of all-time.

It's hard to judge Cesca without more of his singles stuff available. The footage didn't do any favors for Catanzaro either, IMO, and Ben Chemoul has been a whopping disappointment. I actually think his ITV footage would be the key here -- matches against Breaks, McManus and Faulkner.

I don't know if he is able to do it himself but that's not a reason to ignore his viewpoint.

Parv is great. People just need a thicker skin. They also need to learn how to appreciate opposing viewpoints. You learn more from someone who challenges your ideas than someone who agrees with them. I guess people are pushing for polite discourse, and that's fine, but there are folks reading this thread and posting shit on Twitter. The same thing happened during the last poll. I would love to know the difference between Parv posting in this thread and the reactions on Twitter and wherever else. Perhaps the Twitter folks feel justified, but they're not being very inclusive. It seems like a bunch of posturing to me instead of arguing for what you believe in. As a resident hipster/boomer/gatekeeper, I wonder if people know how to argue for what they believe anymore.

Ikeda falling out of the top 100 would be a disgrace.

You haven't seen his pre-match getups yet. He looks like Rudy Ray Moore.