David Mantell

There seems to be quite a bit of German, specifically VDB cheap-cam, footage of Steve and I know he visited Stampede (his name came up recently in a round of Guess The Program on one Jim Cornette's podcasts - Corny didn't know who he was.) and Kent Walton mentions Mexico - I wonder if there is any footage of that? Talking of moustaches it's interesting to see Taylor without his - or his "mullet" hairdo - seeing as I'm mainly familiar with his late 80s TV match tagging with Marty Jones Vs Murphy and South. Here he looks like a shorter sideburns wearing version of Dave (whom Kent Walton already knew about.) Usually when I see the words "Bert" "Royal" and "Steve" together on a Classic British Wrestling YouTube video I assume the missing word is going to be "Logan" - as in the MK1 South London Iron Man version (who also briefly had a tache, of the 1950s-1970s "spiv" variety - see also Jim Hussey). So seeing Bert in a technical bout was an unexpected joy for a purist like myself. Interesting stuff almost from the outset- Bert using his knee as the fulcrum for a horizontal spinout (and without knackering said joint.) Taylor using a bridge to get the angle right for unplugging a headscissor (and deftly slipping into a side headlock). Bert repeatedly undressing a Frank Gotch toehold even as it is being applied and getting a crafty back kick in on top of the Johnny Saint pulling oneself upright counter to an attempt to drive his knee into the mat. Royal takes a top wristlock on his knees so he can swivel round into a front chancery. Royal upturns a headscissor and converts it to a Boston Crab. Bert on the mat in a wristlock lunges through the standing Taylor 's legs to get a folding press on him. And finally the one required fall - a reverse waist lock rolling through into a reverse folding press. Interesting use of storyline at the end without disrupting the sportsmanship and politeness of the match, Taylor asks for an 8-round best of three falls, Bert says yes. I wonder if this happened? It wasn't on TV, but maybe they took it round the country that winter.

In the meantime - I think I posted some of this before in the post about the referee in this who was a vicar, but hee is a longer trim of Killer Ken Davies Vs Ray Taylor (dunno if he was related to Dave, Steve and Eric or not) at Granby Hall in Leicester in the mid 60s IN COLOUR!

Question - I think @JNLister might be able to help but anyone with a good collection of Powerslam or failing that a good memory of famous WWE commentary quotes might be able to help. Some time in the early 2010s (towards the end of Powerslam's life) a WWE announcer - I think it was Michael Cole but wouldn't swear to it - made on air comments about having seen old ITV bouts on YouTube and been very impressed with it. This got quoted in the quotables section of Powerslam (I think it was called They Said It I want to use the quote as a source for an edit on the Wikipedia article for Professional Wrestling in the United Kingdom but have a lot on my plate and don't fancy lugging out my stack of copies except as a last resort. If some kind soul could kindly furnish me with (1) the actual wording of the quote (2) EITHER the edition and page numbers for the quote in Powerslam OR the WWE broadcast details of the original quotation, then I would be most grateful. In the hope that someone can spare me the hassle... Cheers.

Question for @Jetlag, @Robert S and anyone else native to the Germany/Austria wrestling territory: How did EWP get set up? Was the CWA reconfigured into EWP upon Wanz and/or Wilhelm's retirement or was it just the right company that came along at the right time to fill the gap in the marketplace?

I've discussed this before on the French thread due to Orig's claim on the English commentary that Zrno's trainer was Charley Verhulst. Finlay had been pushed by Joint as a Bully heel partly to lead to his 1986 FA CAup Final tag confrontation with Big Daddy, partly to sow the seed of one of his victims Dany Collins eventually taking a title from Finlay (in 1989, too late for ITV. Yes there is plenty of mat wrestling although it's not chain sequences (check the 1982 Finlay Vs Davey Boy match for that), it's more horizontal top wristlocks down on the mat and Zrno bridging out. Finlay does get some nice legdives and well applied leglocks and toe holds from nowhere, as well as one rollout.. Finlay gets a double wristlock and Zrno lifts him in it into a fireman's carry takedown. Zrno topes and monkey climbs Finlay. Paula as much of a heat machine in Germany as back home. Here on CWA Video as on Reslo she is able to do her husband slapping faux-botch (banned on ITV.) Like how Finlay strikes a pose as Paula fans him down with the towel Olympic style. Finlay comes to the ring to Belfast by Boney M. Later during a round break Everything Counts by Depeche Mode is played. End comes when Zrno misses a cross body off the top rope and Finlay gets a face first piledriver for the pin.

Triple tag team time. Best of five falls Brody and Taylor work well together., Taylor gets the first fall on him. When not tagged in, Brody gets very mouthy on the ring apron. N bombs are banned but F bombs are fair game. Which is lucky as Boyd is black and we all know what Brody said about Billy Samson two years earlier in VDB. Boyd pins Polanski for the equaliser, I like Polanski he reminds me of a roided up Ole Anderson. I hope I see more of him. Hashimoto is a bit too tubby for the Kojima style martial artist role. Taylor scores a second one of Brody to make it 2-1 then Schumann gets the 3-1 winner on Hashimoto. (I shall have to read up about him, I've heard the name but don't really know what the big deal is.) Passable fun end of the night Triple Tag spiced up by some good technical work from the two Brits.

Gastel a lot younger and slimmer than the burly Bill Watts-esque Taureau de Batignol of the early 70s but just as much a Mechant. Gastel uses almost a punch to get out of a hold rather than a clever escapes, it gets heat but not quite as much as in England Brown uses a great leg extension submission attempt. Gastel puts up more of a fight than OJ suggests but Brown's technical work is more eye catching. Gastel gets an Avertisement for stomping Brown. The win comes suddenly, as the two are bouncing off the ropes Brown uncorks a huracanrana into a cross press for the one fall required and he feels good, he knew that he could.... Second bout starts off as strength match with Q using the odd foul to even up what shout have advantages the bigger Kovacs. Who looks like a giant version of Zoltan Boscik, same balding scalp and everything. Q gets extended advantage with a single leg Boston Crab which Kovacs has to work hard to power out of. Slow moving bout comes to a sudden end when Kovacs gets an aeroplane spin for the pin. Q has to be carried back to his corner. He tries a sneak attack and nearly gets pummeled until Kovacs calms down. Commentator (Couderc?) calls both Bon wins "la justice". Ring has no corner pads, not even turnbuckles.

How to do disqualifications well, as demonstrated in German Catch. Wouldn't you know it it's the future PN News And he gets Roy StClair's bro to do a whole lotta Juice Til the referee decides that he just gotta stop So disqualifies him and he throws a BIG OL' STROP yo baby yo baby yo Match builds Grizzly nicely as the despicable disgraceful heel who just uses wrestling as an excuse to beat up on people and really earns his DQ. Neu goes quite postal over it, almost as good as Sgt Slaughter at Survivor Series 1990 and the German MC seems to have fun taunting him over it.

Possibly an antecedent to all this monkey business. Commentator makes a lot of Beauty and the Beast jokes, Montallier being Beauty apparently. Actually LBH (Willy Wesley) is a pretty decent mover. A huracanrana near the start and two move near the end, plenty of back rolls and kip ups. This beast can go. And go berserk too., as he throws Montallier and the referee out of the ring, doing a female spectator a mischief in the process.

http://wrestlingclassics.com/cgi-bin/.ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=005024;p=0 @Phil Lions Been skimming through your wrestling classics thread on Kats Eleniki. Was reading about Di Bestie and King Kong. Apart from the question if one of them is in the movie clip (or the Italian Clip), do you think such "GorillaGram" gimmicks might have been a precedent for (getting back on topic! ) Mambo Le Primitiv on 1980s French TV? P.S. WWE did finally make it on to Greek TV in 2019 https://www.wwe.com/worldwide/article/wwe-skai-partner-to-televise-raw-smackdown-in-greece

It's a very Euro thing. You get it on ITV too, especially a hotly contested title match in the late 80s such as Marty Jones's title defences or Kendo's title win over Wayne Bridges (also in 1987) There was a lot of it at Summerslam 92- Park, Park, Parp-parp-parp, Parp-parp-parp-parp, BULL-DOG! Like a lot of UK and French fans chants (ea-SAY ea-SAY, allez Les Verts/blues/rouges, Anux Chiottes L'Arbitre) it originally came from the football stadiums. It seems to annoy Americans a lot more, I guess we're more immunised to it over here. Barry Darsow had one as Blacktop Bully in the crowd on WCW Worldwide in 1994 Maybe Max Crabtree WAS in with a chance after all!

I think the problem was more Max Crabtree not wanting Daddy to be seen as anything less than an indestructible force of nature, so making Shirley take "working strong" to insane paranoid levels. Wanz was more of a Dusty character, struggling on blood and sweat to a hard fought victory. I'll agree it could have been All Star just as easily by 1987, particularly as Quinn was one of Dixon's top stars. One thing is certain, Naggers - ex Riley's Gym, ex regular training partner of Billy Robinson - could DEFINITELY handle Vader in a shoot!

He nonetheless came back to the CWA 1989-1991 and had two more reigns as World Champion before WCW, having tried him out in 1990, brought him back in early 1992 to replace a disillusioned Lex Luger in the combined roles of heel World champion, Sith apprentice to Harley Race and archenemy of Sting.

I think in 1987, 56 year old Big Daddy could reasonably keep up with 32 year old Bull Power. Bear in mind White was still quite green in 1987, he'd had one significant push in the AWA as a nice kid NFL alumnus who posed a comparable threat to Stan Hansen's World title to fellow ex gridironer Lex Luger's threat in 1986 Florida to Ric Flair's NWA World title until co-opted into the Four Horsemen. White had instead beaten visiting ex AWA champion Otto Wanz for his CWA title in March 1987 and earned himself a trip to Europe to job the title back. Having done the job in July, he was free to accept offers and would have been checked out by any number of Joint Promotions stars working the '87 summer season who would have passed the message back to Max Crabtree about this new big American monster. Had things worked out with Jim Hellwig to become Vader as per plan A and White not been approached, he might have taken any number of next steps and Britain, as a scary North American monster following in the footsteps of John Quinn and Jim Harris, to be built up for a showdown with Daddy, might have been one option.

This really belongs on the British thread, but when it comes to Big Daddy's overall fitness I think you have to differentiate between what aggrieved wrestlers bitched about him and the hard evidence of how he kept himself in shape. I could post some scans of images from the 1983 Big Daddy Annual of him working out in the weights room and the swimming pool at Crystal Palace National Sports Centre (which, incidentally I lived near to as a teenager and went training there myself when I was into such things) I could also post testimony from fellow wrestlers like Dave Bond who witnessed Daddy work out (in Bond's case at the NSC). There is also TV footage (from news coverage of Mal Kirk 's death) of him working out with an Olympic wrestling dummy in his home gym. Physically he took a lot better care of himself than, say, Vader did. He WAS a big Endomorph and that does have a vast negative impact on health and conditioning but as 350+ pound Endomorphs come and go, he was one of the better-kept ones. Certainly much better than Vader even when Vader was a much younger age. Big Daddy's real weakness in the ring was how underdeveloped he was as a shooter in what way very much a shooter's territory. In that respect he was in the same boat as legendary "Tankers" such as Wayne Munn. Gus Sonnenburg, Danno O'Mahoney, Buddy Rogers, Superstar Graham and the entire generation of steroid freaks that came in Graham's wake. However since Vader had no legitimate Catch Wrestling skill whatsoever, even worse than Daddy, that is not an issue in their case.

The only comments I've ever heard about Daddy's cardio are cynical asides rather than sober assessments. He trained and worked out regularly. He was a non-smoking teetotaler whereas Vader had real problems with the sauce later on. He lived four years longer than Vader and wrestled his last bout at the same age as Vader was when he died (63 years 1 month.) Most Brits worked relatively stiff anyway so Shirley could take more than a few bangs.

It's weird to hear the German fans chant JOHNNY JOHNNY for him. Vader had the same attitude and demeanor as Bert Assirati but unlike him was not a top Wigan Snakepit hooker/Ripper or indeed a shooter at all. Big Daddy would have been deep in the scheiss against a shooter who wasn't prepared to do biz but if it came to a straight up scrap, he could probably handle himself. Shirley and Eunice Crabtree's working honeymoon in c.1970 (during his semi retired period between leaving the Paul Lincoln BWF in 1966 and joining Joint in 1972) was a wrestling tour of Germany/Austria. Apparently they had to do a 5am bunk out of a window of one Vienna hotel due to being unable to pay the bill.

Have bought a ticket to All Star's next Dudley Town Hall show on Sat 26th October. Will post a report. If anyone can make it and wishes to join me, here are tickets: https://www.boroughhalls.co.uk/all-star-superslam-wrestling.html

Some more Kojima in the UK, this time on Reslo February 1995 as a blue-eye in Great Muta style Kabuki paint. Not much technical work but he does some good acrobatic stuff, including some sharp dropkicks and a fantastic ground launched flying elbowsmash although he comes a cropper when he goes up on the top turnbuckle. Commentators mention judo and taekwondo, presumably martial arts Karimoto/Kojima is good at- Orig also says something about George Kidd. Referee Jack Flash Davey (he was interviewed in one of the Irish TV clips I posted a couple of pages back) seems not to be bothered by the no follow downs rule and let's both of them throw it out of the window. Drew trimmed himself down and grew out his hair for the Ultimate Chippendale gimmick in 1992 (you can see him in the title sequence as he was). but is still doing it despite having ballooned quite a bit and looking like early 70s French heel Robert Gastel. No long body shaming speech tho, possibly because he would have had to do it in Welsh. Drew gets the win with a reverse piledriver (the Tombstone if you insist.)

A more amenable opponent for Wilson (who carried on into the Noughties) was Satoshi Kojima who worked for All Star in the mid 90s as heel Japan's Mean Machine, occasionally accompanying his hosts on the ferry trip across the North Sea to CWA Land. Lighter and more agile than Muir, he and Wilson have a far more dynamic bout, more watchable despite the wandering fan cam. Note Wilson getting the same back submission hold on Kojima a lot more easily than on bulky old Muir. Referee is Mick McMichael, minus the kilt. When Kojima met Simon Garfield...

Tarzan Johnny Wilson with his muscles and leopardskin trunks was a crowd favourite despite being something of a strength wrestler. He was clearly taller than brutal monster heel Bully Boy Muir and his better physique than flabby Muir offset any wight disadvantage. Muir tended to get DQd a lot and portrayed himself as being in the game more to beat people up than actually win. This time Wilson really had Muir on the run by the deciding fall and Muir's earning himself a third and final public warning was a face-saving exercise rather than lose by 2-1. Nearest American equivalent would be Ken Patera Vs King Kong Bundy circa 1987.

Veteran comedy heel Mansfield isn't really the right opponent for Breaks but he does get his moments including perfectly running through Johnny Saint's "Lady Of The Lake" sequence. You'll notice the crowd has built up a bit since the earlier Hakan Vs O'Reilly match too. It built up even more on the next few matches.

What did you reckon to Quinn as a Babyface? I wonder if Max Crabtree ever tried to lure Leon White to Britain to be fed to Big Daddy?

A couple more EWP 2011 snippets from the same YouTube channel: Fit Finlay Vs Big Van Walter, now Gunther in WWE. The UK Hooligans (Roy and Zak Knight, sons of Ricky Knight and Saraya Senior, brothers of Saraya/Paige) Vs two German babyfaces whose names I can't catch.

Still a part of EWP shows in 2011