Tim Cooke

My brother and I watched some wrestling last night after being bored with regular TV. Amongst other things, we re-watched Eddy/JBL from Judgement Day. It is still an amazing match and I think it would fit in my all time top 30 easily.

Conan isn't a troll. He is one of the guys from VinceRusso.net who truley believe that Russo is a savior to Pro Wrestling.

Both please. PM'd you. -- Loss, 01/16

Didn't have any free time at work today, so I will do this Thursday. My intro to MMA was via Sakuraba. But more in depth stuff Thurs, I promise since I am off tomorrow as we get our birthday's off at my job.

Tomorrow when I am bored at work, I will try to type up something.

"The only difference between Lance Storm and Chris Benoit is that Lance didn't gain more smark cred by touring the world before becoming a midcarder in the US." Some of this has already been covered but I am going to repeat anyway. Benoit and Storm are not like apples and oranges, more like apples and cigarette's. Other than both being Canadian, they really have nothing in common. Benoit works a realistic style (stiffer) that can be adapted when his opponent can't/won't/isn't capable of doing it. Benoit has worked top quality matches in the NJ Junior style, early 90's UWA/EMLL style, early 90's European style, WWE heavyweight style. Benoit has more moves in his 2006 "limited" arsenal than Storm has ever had. That's not even getting into the nitty-gritty of what seperates them. Take common opponents- it really sets them apart. Jeff Jarrett, who Storm praised so highly in the May 2001 piece on his web site, never had anything more than a watchable match with Storm. Benoit, during the Russo era, had a a sub 10 minute match with Jarrett on PPV that easily stands with the best of Storm's work. And I wouldn't include that match in the top 100 matches of Benoit's career. I am just not seeing how your original statement makes any sense. Tim

Great PPV. Opening tag was solid, with London/Spanky really over by the end. That's what happens when you push new guys on TV for 5 weeks strong. Benoit/Finlay was tremendous. Booker/Lashley was really fun and got great near the end. Rey/JBL was a strong main event. Best show of the year, best PPV I have seen since WrestleMania 17 and Greed.

Pierroth in trios brawls opposite Perros del Mal is a lot of fun.

Majority of ROH will age badly. But as they continue to move towards regular heels vs. faces, the more matches that will hold up. But again, it is going to be Samoa Joe, Bryan Danielson matches that hold up, not the schmucks who open the shows. Tim

I know the Destroyer match was floating around the internet. If I can rip the Robinson match this weekend and figure out how to upload it, I will. Tim

Oh fuck, I don't know how this ended up here 3 times. And Baba has a whole list of good to great matches. 03/05/69 vs. Destroyer 06/13/74 vs. Pedro Morales 12/02/74 vs. Jack Brisco 12/09/75 vs. Harley Race 05/11/76 vs. Jumbo Tsuruta 07/24/76 vs. Billy Robinson 10/31/79 vs. Harley Race 02/04/82 vs. Stan Hanson 07/31/84 vs. Stan Hanson 11/30/93 with Hanson vs. Misawa/Kobashi 12/??/94 with Hanson vs. Kawada/Taue And I think MNJ reviewed the 1993 RWTL match with Kawada/Taue in the reviews folder recently.

Triple Post

Yes, 1976 Volume 2. I saw this for the first time when Frank posted his original review back in December 2002. Hadn't watched it since late 2003. Revisited it when I got the set last Thursday and watched it again last night. May watch it tonight or tomorrow again to get some specific notes. Frank's review is tremendous but I want to elaborate on a few points and raise a few things I noticed as well. Loss, have you seen this yet? If you haven't, I demand you watch tonight. Been thinking lately about the absolute best matches I have ever seen. Santo/Casas from July 1987 is one of them. Maybe the best lucha match I have seen on tape. Santo/Perro Jr. from August 2004 is the best overall lucha brawl I have seen (Santo/Parka from December 2001 has a few issues that bother me and the Atlanta, Ga March 2004 version is clipped to 9 minutes but looks awesome). Multi-person Lucha tag brawl right now is October 2005 Capos vs. Perros. But Japan is different, since it is what I was first exposed to in terms of foreign wrestling and is what I considered (and in some cases, still do) the best. But watching some of the best matches over and over has made me lose perspective. The other day I watched Misawa/Kawada from 7/29/93 and found it to be incredible. It had the following working so well: * Second Triple Crown Match between the two * First time they faced off in a face vs. heel / rival vs. rival instead of friends who have to face off for one reason or another (10/92 and 3/93) * So many little stories with Kawada showing he can stand toe to toe with Misawa in a variety of ways (out manuvering, doing Misawa's moves-only better) But at the end of the day, it is just a great bridge between 10/92 and 6/94. And that is where I am torn because this match is so great, it deserves better treatment. Back to the original subject. Where as I still haven't seen all the lucha on tape that I need to see, I have for All Japan, at least what has been widely released. And Robinson/Baba fits my expectations for everything I would want out of a match at that time and point. More people need to see this now! Tim

Triple Post

I re-watched this again for the second time in a week last night. I think I will either write a review or respond to Frank's excellent review later this week. This is my MOTD for the 1970's and one of the best matches I have ever seen (maybe the best). ------------------------------------------ This review isn't about the WON Awards or a candidate for the WON HOF, but since the match involves two WON HOF members I thought it might find a good home in this forum. Tying back to Steve Yohe's excellent "Wrestler of the Year 1900-1979" work, I'd have to say that the case for Billy Robinson winning WON Wrestler of the Year award in 1976 is strong. Robinson's famous draw with Inoki in 12/75 would fall within the 1976 voting period, as would this match and Robinson's 65-minute draw with Jumbo. It's one hell of a trifecta from a workrate standpoint, though this match, Billy vs Baba is probably my favorite of the three. Frank (Review follows below) ========== If Billy Robinson was wrestling today, one might describe his style as "fusion" since it incorporated tumbling elements now associated with juniors along with matwork now associated with UWFi and selling associated with All Japan. The problem with the fusion classification is that Billy Robinson's prime occurred more than twenty-five years ago, so he isn't a fusion of these disparate styles but rather a wellspring of new ideas or a missing link to the workers before him. Robinson may not have invented these moves, holds, and techniques, but in numerous cases his matches provide the oldest example of their application. Watching Robinson's match with Shohei Baba from 7/24/76 I was reminded of many of the now disparate elements which were fused in Robinson's work, but more than that I got the feeling that I was seeing a historic first. Billy Robinson vs Giant Baba may be the "first" Triple Crown match, not in the sense of fighting for the PWF, International, and UN titles, but in the sense of providing much of the blueprint that was used by Misawa and Kawada in the nineties to make "Triple Crown" synonymous with the ultimate in professional wrestling. One of the hallmarks of Triple Crown matches was the evolution of sequences from match to match as new counters were added to surprise the audience and take the rivalry to new levels. Robinson and Baba didn't have the luxury of playing off their previous encounters, but they had three falls to work with and they used sequences and spots in the early falls to set up surprise counters in later falls. Baba dominated the end of the first fall. Baba whipped Robinson into the corner, then whipped him into the ropes and caught him with a trademark high kick for a hot near fall. Robinson grabbed a headlock, literally trying to "hang on", but Baba back suplexed him to take the first fall. These moves would be replayed later in the match. In the second fall, Baba again tried to whip Robinson into the corner, but Robinson responded with a running elbow to begin to take control for the first time in that fall. Then in the third fall Baba tried for the high kick, but Robinson caught Baba's foot, slammed it down, and dropkicked Baba in the chest. Later, Baba tried another back suplex, but Robinson kicked off the top rope causing Baba to fall awkwardly and hit the back of his head, stunning himself. Counters like these became staples in Triple Crown matches in general and in Misawa vs Kawada matches in particular. Another hallmark of the Triple Crown style was organizing the match into sustained series of offense by each wrestler separated by transitions. The genesis of the transitions was often a single quick counter move, but momentum usually reversed slowly over several moves as it took the former victim time to clear his head after the previous prolonged assault. Robinson and Baba worked several of these deliberate, well planned shifts of momentum into their storyline. Perhaps the best of these transitions, and one of the best transitions I've ever seen, took place in the middle of the second fall. Baba came out strong, controlling the first three minutes of the fall while working on Robinson's sore neck with a series of chops to set up a leg sweep and a swinging neckbreaker for a pair of hot near falls. Baba whipped Robinson toward the corner, but Robinson sprang up onto the second rope, leapt off, and decked Baba with a running forearm to the side of the jaw. Robinson then collapsed himself, still hurting from the earlier beating, but made it to his feet first, steadied himself, and launched a dropkick that took Baba down again. Robinson stayed on his hands and knees following the dropkick, still trying to gather himself. Again he made it to his feet first and again he decked Baba with a running forearm, but this time he stayed on his feet and seeing Baba down he went for a quick cover but Baba, now thoroughly stunned, was able to get his foot over the ropes. Robinson, now fully in control of the action, then hit one of his signature spots, a hangman neckbreaker. Baba shifted slightly, perhaps looking for the ropes again, but had to kick out to avoid being pinned. The entire transition, from Robinson being in peril to Robinson being in complete control took a little over a minute with several "rounds" of combat featuring wonderful selling and decisions that made perfect sense. Slow, well executed transitions like this were one of the elements that separated All Japan's top singles matches from the rest of the world and separated the Misawa vs Kawada rivalry from the rest of All Japan. Another hallmark of the Triple Crown style was teasing and building the importance of key moves by using a sustained series of desperate blocks. In the first fall, Robinson attempted to lift Baba several times for a gut wrench suplex, but Baba hung on to Robinson's leg to block the move. In the second fall, Robinson attempted to lift Baba several times for a double arm suplex, but Baba blocked it in a number of ways, grapevining the leg, dropping to a knee, and hooking the ropes. The implication was that these moves posed a real threat to Baba which is why he was so desperate to block them. Misawa and Kawada often used the same psychology in their matches with Misawa desperately blocking Kawada's powerbomb. When Baba blocked the gut wrench suplex, Robinson shifted to attacking Baba's leg. When Baba blocked the double arm suplex, Robinson went back to the leg and applied a single leg crab, forcing Baba to submit and evening the match at one fall apiece. Robinson opened the third fall by going after Baba's injured leg. He tried to apply the boston crab several times, but Baba made it to the ropes or kicked him off. On one of the kicks, Robinson fell backward and hit the back of his head. Another hallmark of the Triple Crown style was great selling, understated and realistic in some moments while over-the-top theatrical in others. In the second fall Robinson had shown that he could stagger around in peril like Shawn Michaels in one moment, then wilt following a heavy blow like Toshiaki Kawada in the next moment. In the third fall, after bumping his head, Robinson avoided a stomp, made it to his feet, then collapsed and rolled all the way out to the floor. Not to be outdone, after bumping his head when Robinson kicked off the top rope to upset a back suplex attempt, Baba rolled three quarters of the way across the ring, then rolled under the ropes and off the apron to the floor. Robinson and Baba varied their selling, but they were not inconsistent. Their selling reflected the overall flow of the match and the most recent attacks so they were able to mix theatricality and realism like a Triple Crown match. There are plenty of other elements that can be analyzed in this match, from the incredible build to the finish to all the quirky moments Robinson brings to the match, but I'm going to break with tradition by avoiding a blow by blow retelling of the stretch run here so that readers can see it for themselves. Robinson's bumping is great and Baba's signature moves never looked better. At one point Robinson staggers into the ropes, then in response to Baba's chop he falls out between the top and second rope to end up on the apron. Baba's back suplex is majestic with Baba letting gravity do all the work. Baba's finisher, the neckbreaker drop, has all the ferocity of a car wreck with Robinson flinging his legs into the air as his shoulders are driven into the canvas. All that said, I'd rate this match at ****1/2. There were a couple of minor slips early and while their matwork seemed both organic and original it ended a bit abruptly as if they had merely wanted to get it out of the way before moving on to other things. The teasing and failure to deliver later on the gut wrench suplex and the double arm suplex was a negative, but the teasing of a double countout while actually delivering a clean, satisfying finish balances that out. I've seen Robinson vs Baba from 7/24/76 nine times now and I haven't tired of it at all. There are literally dozens of small touches to enjoy around the strong central storyline. It's the quintessential Billy Robinson match, showing his strengths and the diversity (to our modern eyes) of his work while also showing a few moments of Robinson marching to his own drummer. If you were a fan of All Japan Triple Crown matches in the nineties and the great rivalry between Misawa and Kawada then you definitely need to watch this match to see where that style came from. Frank

"There's one highly regarded 5 star ROH match in particular (Which I hate) where everybody says there's this clear, concise story." Is this Danielson/London? Kobashi/Joe? Just interested because I don't remember... Tim

Shorter Punk matches include: vs. Jimmy Rave (2/26/05 - 25 minutes) vs. Jimmy Rave (05/14/05 - Cage - 30 minutes) He hasn't worked a lot of short matches that are excellent. Punk has the advantage though because he can adapt. In 2001-2002 in IWA-MS, he would pull out flying spots that didn't look good. When he got to ROH, he dropped a lot of those silly spots. While the Raven feud didn't do anything for me, Punk was able to adapt to work with Raven. His sloppiness is always brought up but he has always found ways around it by working stories into his matches and generally working a smart style. 2005 saw him work as a lead babyface and then as a cowardly heel champion. My favorite thing about Punk in 2005 was his ability to go from working a main event program with Joe to working an upper mid card feud with a nobody in Jimmy Rave, getting him over and making him a better worker in the matter of months. His heel turn and title run just capped things off. Tim