Grimmas

Parv disliking dancing is the saddest and least shocking thing ever.

I don't think I will either, but we'll see. I really should look up who you had at 95, but now I am just excited for that reveal.

Of course there is a better metric and it's called: +FSBOCHCCSSHBTBC -SSB

I snarked a similar request in my first post, but I edited it out because I don't know if there's anything less productive for this discussion than whipping out match lists and comparing length. Bret and Flair didn't really work well together. It might be do to different philosophies or personal dislike, but they didn't work. Weird situation to pick. Yes comparing great match lists lengths is exactly what I am against.

Steven's +FSBOCHCCSSHBTBC -SSB system! Positive Categories: How good are your Finishes? How awesome are you at Selling? How Believable are you in the ring? How good does your Offense look? Does your Choices make sense? Are you good at Hope spots? Are you good at Comebacks? Are you good at Cut off spots? Are you good at Shine? Are you good in different Settings? Are you a good Heel? Are you a good Babyface? Are you good in Tags? Are you Believable? Do you do Cool things that make sense? Negative Categories: Do you forget to Sell? Do you do anything that makes no Sense and thus piss me off? Are you Boring? there's probably more, but that's all I can think of?

Who said Kobashi wasn't good at selling? He's one of the all time greats. I just think Bret's is better. I'd take Bret's exhausted selling over Kobashi's leg selling any day.

FUCKING EXACTLY!

My argument is that Bret wrestles more my ideal style of wrestling and is better in every category of wrestling (minus a few) than Kobashi. Thus he is a better wrestler. If I was to do a BIGLAV, you would see. Except my categories would be way more and completely different than yours.

Performances and skills and talent always wins out for me.

I named John Cena.I would love to hear someone try to make a case that Cena is great based on his skills rather than his output. It cannot be done in my view. John Cena had great fire, gets great sympathy with selling and can do very hot comebacks. He builds drama better than most. Cena is a great wrestler. Yes his execution stinks, but the stories and feeling are there. All these things are true of other wrestlers who don't have the laundry list.I don't believe for a second anyone would rank Cena as highly as he has been if he didn't have the list. You are delusional if you think otherwise. It is his case. His whole case. Who is saying you have to completely ignore output? You can't divorce the two. You made the dichotomy earlier when trying to defend your basically absurd Bret #5 vs Kobashi #18 rankings. Bret did have great matches though. All I'm trying to say is that if wrestler A has 10 great matches and wrestler B has 5 great matches then A is not automatically > B I don't know how many times I have to say this.

I named John Cena.I would love to hear someone try to make a case that Cena is great based on his skills rather than his output. It cannot be done in my view. John Cena had great fire, gets great sympathy with selling and can do very hot comebacks. He builds drama better than most. Cena is a great wrestler. Yes his execution stinks, but the stories and feeling are there. All these things are true of other wrestlers who don't have the laundry list. I don't believe for a second anyone would rank Cena as highly as he has been if he didn't have the list. You are delusional if you think otherwise. It is his case. His whole case. Who is saying you have to completely ignore output? You can't divorce the two.

I named John Cena. I would love to hear someone try to make a case that Cena is great based on his skills rather than his output. It cannot be done in my view. John Cena had great fire, gets great sympathy with selling and can do very hot comebacks. He builds drama better than most. Cena is a great wrestler. Yes his execution stinks, but the stories and feeling are there.

I never once said Kobashi was a stupid wrestler. That was never what great match theory was about. Great Match Theory is the theory that the person who had the more great matches is the greater wrestler. Nobody has once tried to argue that a wrestler who had a lot of great matches wasn't great. Just that it doesn't automatically mean that they are greater than someone with less great matches.

You like big, I like subtle.

I had Kobashi 18, let's not act like I'm shitting on him

People seem to forget his early career with crazy hair.

268 - Terry Taylor 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 276 # of Ballots: 9 Average Vote: 70.33 High Vote: 16 (Scarlet-Left) Low Vote: 98

269 - Homicide 2006 Ranking: unranked Points: 276 # of Ballots: 12 Average Vote: 78 High Vote: 24 (Mando>Eddie) Low Vote: 100

270 - Ricochet 2006 Ranking: unranked Points: 275 # of Ballots: 13 Average Vote: 79.85 High Vote: 46 (jackwebb) Low Vote: 99

271 - Haku 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 273 # of Ballots: 13 Average Vote: 80 High Vote: 49 (topropepodcast) Low Vote: 98

272 - Marty Jannetty 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 273 # of Ballots: 15 Average Vote: 82.80 High Vote: 52 (Frankensteiner) Low Vote: 96

273 - Minoru Tanaka 2006 Ranking: unranked Points: 271 # of Ballots: 8 Average Vote: 67.13 High Vote: 28 Low Vote: 98

274 - Clive Myers 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 271 # of Ballots: 12 Average Vote: 78.42 High Vote: 54 (PeteF3) Low Vote: 99

275 - Dean Ambrose 2006 Ranking: unranked Points: 270 # of Ballots: 8 Average Vote: 67.25 High Vote: 13 (Mando>Eddie) Low Vote: 97

because they suck. Bret wrestled the exact style I love and wrestles it better than anyone. He does all the little things I love better than anyone. He is exactly what I want out of wrestling, playing it up as a legit serious contest and putting really smart touches in every spot he can. Sure being a national icon helps, but it's not like he's Inoki or anything. It takes him from maybe top 10 on my list to top 5, maybe? I wouldn't even go that far. Notice the top two on my list are Texans. I don't like Texas. 3rd is Mexican. 4th is from Memphis. I have no connection to any place on that list.