Grimmas

Yeah, because the same arguments are made for other Canadians as well. I didnt rank Jericho or Edge. I know you are joking, but it's interesting that people only say that about Bret and don't say it about others.

not the only example of Kobashi being excessive.

276 - Jose Lothario 2006 Ranking: unranked Points: 262 # of Ballots: 11 Average Vote: 77.18 High Vote: 41 (Dr Ackermann) Low Vote: 97

277 - Mr. Gannosuke 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 259 # of Ballots: 7 Average Vote: 64 High Vote: 28 (stunning_grover) Low Vote: 90

Bret's offense was awesome and crisp. Kobashi had great offense, I can't deny that. However a lot of his great offense got really over the top. Bret's piledriver looked vicious. I'll take that over the Burning Hammer for instance.

Yeah and ended up that high. Seems like an odd choice.

278 - "Bullet" Bob Armstrong 2006 Ranking: unranked Points: 241 # of Ballots: 9 Average Vote: 74.22 High Vote: 35 (MikeF) Low Vote: 99

That's probably the best assessment. Number of great matches being weighted so heavily bugged me a lot, especially if it was more important than how someone performs. Some people were just in positions to have a TON of great matches and to have those seen by a lot of people. Others did not. The folks who didn't get those chances aren't necessarily worse than those who did. Being in position means they still have to take advantage of that opportunity. And doing so may very well be why they're so often put in such a position. True. However looking at someone like Bret who constantly had to face pirates, dentists, clowns and everybody else and compare that to Kobashi who got to face Misawa, Kawada, Taue, etc.. There is no way Bret would ever be able to equal that many great matches in that situation. Does that mean Kobashi is automatically better? He may be better, but there is more to it than that. Bret had a ton of disadvantages with respect to his opposition. The house style is also not to be discounted. If you dropped Fujinami or Hashimoto Baba's world rather than Inoki's its possible we may view their careers very differently. I also have no idea how one would begin to argue Bret over Kobashi unless you're adamant that the end product really doesn't matter and are only evaluating the ingredients someone brings to the table. If the performances are consistently that excellent then at some point the output should reflect it. May, if, coulda, woulda, shoulda We don't use GWE to re-write history. Skill vs Output. Some value one more than the other. I happen to think that Kobashi laps Bret in both fields, but can understand someone arguing for Bret's skills. There are undoubtedly merits to discussing both, but arguing Bret over Kobashi on the basis of skill reads like like judging a chef based upon on the grocery list rather than the meal. If a given wrestler is that much more highly skilled than another, shouldn't be be able to utilize those skills to put together a pretty impressive resume of big matches? Parv made the points about the various skills, roles and finishes on Kobashi's resume that lap Bret's. I don't see a compelling argument for Bret in any of those departments, but let's say someone does. I'm struggling to see where checking those boxes in isolation overcomes the actual matches that result from those tools. Its not like we're working with a small sample of footage from either and being forced to extrapolate from there as though there's a great unknown about what they could do on a given day, which understandably lends itself to a much more open question. Its all on tape and we've seen it. It has to be more than just applying a handicap for their respective opposition. I've watched a ton of Bret Hart and a ton of Kenta Kobashi. Bret Hart is a better pro wrestler. I'd take Bret almost all single metric, except fire, charisma and excitement. Does Kobashi have more great matches? Yes.

279 - Ron Simmons 2006 Ranking: unranked Points: 239 # of Ballots: 8 Average Vote: 71.13 High Vote: 24 (Scarlet-Left) Low Vote: 98

He was on my ballot but because I was blown away by how someone got such good matches out of Hornswoggle and worked backwards to see his pre-El Torito work. That started my love, what cemented him on my list was seeing him in random US indies tearing it up with great matches.

I'm so sad that Mascarita Dorada dropped this far. Although he was 346 in 2006 on 1 ballot from Rob Naylor, so that's improvement. I guess enough people didn't listen to the Super Show we did on him. I blame myself.

280 - Mascarita Dorada 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 239 # of Ballots: 9 Average Vote: 74.44 High Vote: 45 (Bill Thompson) Low Vote: 96

281 - Kazushi Sakuraba 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 238 # of Ballots: 5 Average Vote: 53.40 High Vote: 41 (Venegas) Low Vote: 86

There has been some people asking to submit their lists now that the reveal is delayed till after the GWE reveal. After some discussions with Dylan, Charles and myself we have decided that is unfair to the other 50 who put together their tag lists within the 18 month time frame. In retrospect tag teams and singles should had been done at different times, but we are too late for that. Maybe in 5 years?

Awesome, I would had been sad otherwise. Those facial expressions get you into a top 100 by themselves. So that's two: Killer Khan & John Tenta.

I'm pretty sure I voted for Killer Khan, can't remember. So that's two.

Your loss. BattlArts is awesome. Still strange that Satino Marella and Yuki Ishikawa have opened up a new Battle Arts in Toronto that nobody talks about.

282 - Killer Khan 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 237 # of Ballots: 9 Average Vote: 74.67 High Vote: 10 (Dean Rasmussen) Low Vote: 98 "A great big match wrestler who had an incredibly physical style." Dave Musgrave Recommended Match: Killer Khan vs Riki Choshu (NJPW, 7/31/1986)

283 - Super Astro 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 237 # of Ballots: 10 Average Vote: 77.30 High Vote: 52 (A Stock) Low Vote: 96

284 - Dos Caras 2006 Ranking: honourable mention (124) Points: 236 # of Ballots: 6 Average Vote: 61.67 High Vote: 31 Low Vote: 93

285 - Katsuyori Shibata 2006 Ranking: honourable mention Points: 236 # of Ballots: 7 Average Vote: 67.29 High Vote: 23 (ShittyLittleBoots) Low Vote: 88

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/33839-kobashi-vs-bret/

Let's keep the thread going from here because this kind of "projection" seems like something that should be discussed more especially if more people were doing it. That's the skill vs output discussion. We've had it two million times. Some had the skills and the opportunities. Some had the skills and no opportunities. Some had the opportunities. I value the skills more than the output. LOVE the butt offense!

Another from the 2006 list is gone, that's three. The first male though. I wonder why Koshinaka has dropped so much?

286 - Shiro Koshinaka 2006 Ranking: 77 Points: 236 # of Ballots: 8 Average Vote: 71.50 High Vote: 48 (The Great Puma) Low Vote: 86