soup23

So you are a big fan of Dragon Gate then? Numbers 1-4 are unequivocally prominent in Dragon Gate even among smart fans in as much that the most notorious English speaking Dragon Gate fan in Jae doesn't legitimately like the lead hero currently in Shingo.

Why does joshi get so dismissed? No one that was a joshi worker finished in the top 25 of GWE. Honestly, I have watched a good bit of joshi in 2016 along with lucha and I prefer the output of the Joshi.

http://placetobenation.com/where-the-big-boys-play-90-slamboree-93/ Chad and Parv return to look at Slamboree 93: A Legends' Reunion [0:02:31] Wrestling Observer round-up: All the news from February to May 93 in a monster round-up including WCW's UK tour, Tully Blanchard contract wranglings, and the origins of the WWE Hall of Fame. [1:31:35] Review of Slamboree 93: who is sexier Bischoff or Missy Hyatt? Lots and lots of genuine bona-fide legends of the business. Dory Funk Jr! Paul Roma: Horseman! The Prisoner! Mike Atkins's tache: wow! Rude's tache: back! Ox Baker's tache: OMG! [2:35:49] End of show awards

I rewatched this too a few days ago as I saw it ranked in the ****1/2 range for some. It is a fun, bulky match but more in the Ishii vs. Shibata style for me where I needed more context and overall progression to help out the insanely stiff shots. ***3/4

Watched that show fairly recently and it is a sight to see. Nothing really blow away great but the Tony vs. Klein, Bull vs. Hido and Hero vs. Corp matches were all good. Beyond that, there is the spectacle aspect of this show from the vomiting to the beatdown of Peter B. It is quite the encapsulation of 2001 IWA-MS.

The handshake between Kong and Kobashi was my favorite part. Don't get me wrong, the match was good but nothing spoke like that singular moment. I did think Hamada showed some really strong fire including her rope walking and arm drag of both of her opponents. Overall a solid match but nothing really memorable. ***1/4

No internet at my place till tomorrow. Wanted this for my bus ride home from work tonight and it made me go over data! This pod better be worth the ten bucks I paid for it! Sam needs to paypal you $10

Fandango was over huge coming out of WM 29, too early to tell how over the "10" chant will be long term.

Adam's wife posted that he passed away on Friday night. Rest in Peace friend.

I'm right there with you. The match isn't good by any means but not the botched disaster that the hype dictates it as. Besides Steiners one botch, I though he was very serviceable throughout the match and had a focused strategy on the back.

Agree with premise that Tamura would have been better in UWF 2.0 than UWFi. Tamura is a really interesting figure in that he has been around for a decade but yet feels like a rookie in some ways just because Heat Up shows make tape.

Watched 72 live, audio was an issue on Chrome. They acknowledged that and said to switch browsers. I went to Mozilla and didn't have any issues. it wasn't atrocious but I wouldn't call it flawless either. In addition, with the Joey Styles fiasco, they had to do a bunch of heavy editing delaying the VOD release of 72 by 24 hours. I was only able to watch the VOD of 73 but it was up within 2-3 hours of the show ending which is a really strong turnaround.

Conrad not knowing Arrogance was the biggest gaffe on the Survivor Series show. Hosting a podcast is tougher than it seems, especially when questions are "popped' up on you. Parv is my boy but there has been countless times on WTBBP where he has asked me a question where I know the answer but get stone mouthed and cant think of it in the moment or my head is saying one thing that is different from my brain.

Liked the beginning and thought we were settling in for a good match but then we started getting the weapon shots with the kendo and the big bottle and it just eliminated my interest in the first portion of the match. A disappointment.

I really like SEAdLINNING presentation of everything with the videos and build to the match. I thought this match was great. Yamashita holds her own in the beginning mat work and then begins waylaying on Nanae. This was great storytelling of the more inexperienced worker really seizing her moment and taking it to the veteran. It really felt like a triumphant comeback when Nanae wins and really elevated Rina in my and the fans eyes overall. Haven't watched a ton of joshi this year but this is right there with Kong vs. Satomura as my favorite so far. ****

I didn't even notice the clipping watching this. Really well done match that had a lot of violence towards each other but also some big spots and dramatic moments as the draw was looming. I really thought Nakajima in particular looked great and was equally intriguing selling and working underneath throughout this match. ***1/2

There is a couple of summaries of the angles on youtube.

What are we doing with Lucha Underground talent like Mantanza, Puma, etc?

I think being a Japanese diehard fan in the mid 1980's would have been incredible from a live perspective. You would have Choshu invading All Japan, New Japan vs. UWF and the emotional attachment of the AJW events like Dump vs. Chigusa.

Haven't listened but if Chadley's favorite wrestler is Mr. Hughes this week that is actually the closest to the truth LFK has gotten so far.

Strong match with the hate really coming off the screen even though I was unaware of the back story. I liked how the beginning Satomura was using controlling submissions to try to gain control and then by the end, she is aware she is in a war so she uses more strict/rough submissions like the choke to gain the victory. A really good watch and the match didn't overstay its welcome. ***3/4

Damn, a *****1/4 rating by Parv.

I deny it! All of it! Invoking Biglav and bringing that back into my life only makes it worse! (these are jokes...just to be clear) Its kinda funny that we agree he was the 3 or 4th best pillar through 93, because thinking more about it, there's more Misawa singles matches I like from 92/93 than post 95. I dig the first MIsawa vs Kawada match. There's a champion carnival match from 3/7/93 between the two that I'd never seen before I watched it for GWE when I was watching All Japan stuff and I loved it. Everyone says they didn't match up well, but I enjoyed his 92 match with Hansen. I like the Jumbo matches too. The further away he gets from playing underdog against Hansen & Jumbo and "The Man" against Kobashi & Kawada, the less I like the matches and a lot of that has to do with his (and Kobashi's, and Baba, and other factors) pushing the style in a direction that I tended to not like. That's a general rule but not a 100% rule. And honestly the very peak best stuff where they were really starting to dip their toes into the stuff I didn't like but were still holding on to the prior shit I did like a little more, that's when they had the best stuff. Something like 6/3/94? Absolutely one of the best matches ever. Misawa vs Williams from I think September 94 (the TC CHange) is great. I love the two famous Taue matches from 95 and the Carny match against Kawada where he breaks his face was actually probably great because he broke his face. But Misawa vs Kawada as a single falls apart after 94. I cannot explain how I have a weird problem with All Japan being too big and ridiculous and still like 1/20/97 but I love that shit to this day. I can't do Misawa vs Kobashi after that. Or any Misawa vs Akiyama match. I'm struggling to think of a single Misawa match after 1/97 that I really like, and I feel like there's at least one with Takayama but I honestly can't think of another. There are a number of tag matches of his I like actually even going into his NOAH days. But I'm struggling to think of big singles matches I've enjoyed on any level. Its not just MIsawa. Its Kobashi and Kawada too. Less so Taue because I can point to a few more things I like with Taue. It was really funny when I saw Dylan saying WWE did "Self Conscious Epics" because I thought that exact same thing rewatching that stuff I just wasn't really ready to talk about it because I was taken aback by the fact that these matches I always thought were great were suddenly matches I was rolling my eyes at all these ridiculous spots. I kinda feel like I get what OJ talks about when he says he's finished with a wrestler. He always referenced Bret or Hokuto and now I get it. I don't really want to watch Misawa vs Kawada against because every time I do I like it a little less and the wrestlers annoy me a little more and I'd rather like more wrestlers than less and if that means not watching their matches in order to still like them, so be it. I think most people would say late 93-1/97 is a fair, if not conservative description of is peak. I think I'd agree with that. Maybe pushing it into early 94, but lets say late late 93...That's not a very long peak is it? 3 1/2 years? I mean. That's pretty good. Daniel Bryan might have just had a decade plus as the best in the world. Ric Flair's 80s? I don't think that Misawa was the best in the world from late 93-1/97. I've said several times I think Tamura was the best wrestler in the world from 94-99, and there are several others I'd rank above MIsawa during this time period. Anyway, my point just objectively, is that 3 1/2 years isn't all that long I agree with you about Misawa having a great presence and I'd agree that he'd be 10/10 in that wack system. Shit, I think I argued with Parv for it. But Hashimoto and Tenryu were just as compelling chopping each other to death as Misawa/Kobashi were dropping each other on their heads, you know, if not more so. All of this is mostly a point of comparison. I do think "working smart" is something that needs to be fleshed out more. What exactly does it mean? Is it from a drawing standpoint, a sustainability, a adaptation to a style that favors longevity? Even with all of those, you hear names like Lawler, Funk, Bockwinkel, Hansen, Tenryu as the pillars of longevity. I am purposely excluding lucha workers here because I actually think they personify a longevity that can be both artistically and financially successful. In regards to the others we have Lawler. Lawler has had numerous great matches in the 25 years since 1990, but I would say his level of great matches is comparable to Misawa from 2000-2009 for me just on quantity. Beyond that, I don't think any performance or match reaches the apex of something like 2/27/00 vs. Akiyama or 3/1/03 vs. Kobashi. Lawler in the past 20 years has been great at either having fun shtick matches or parachuting in and giving great performances in big spots. I would throw up 1/4/09 as a comp for Misawa doing that very late in his career. Here he is in a New Japan dome show semi-main and he easily has the most presence and charisma in the match. As far as the comparison of a *** Lawler popcorn match invoking hiding the chain or other gimmicks vs. a run to the mill strong style tag match with Saito/Go Shiozaki/etc., it is easily to find one more entertaining at the stage where most of us here are at as wrestling fans, but they are marginally equal from a financial standpoint. On the health issues, head drops no doubt cost Misawa his life but I get real weary in playing doctor and crediting or discrediting workers based off of that. Lawler had a heart attack on air for instance. Funk is someone who even more it seems weird to praise him for working "smarter" later in his career when he was working garbage style matches and where one errant weapon shot could do as much fatal damage as the head drop style Misawa turned to. Hansen had a sustainable bull dozier style where he looked like a monster in the ring for nearly 20 years. However, stiffness played a huge role in that and him stiffing guys with clotheslines where he was walllopping the air and hoping for the best doesn't seem like the smartest working style either. Bockwinkel is an exceptional worker in 1986 and 1987 right up to the point of his retirement. He was smart and articulate inside the ring. Unfortunately, the promotion he was in was crumbling in much faster and worse fashion than NOAH ever did when Misawa was alive. I make all of these defenses as a Misawa apologist but also as someone that is rapidly coming to the conclusion that not many workers were "smart" in the twilight of their career. It is very rare for someone to have artistic success as a performer this late in the run without regressing to a dumbed down approach. It is even rarer if that results in financial success at the box office. Writing all of these has given me more credence that something like what AJ Styles is accomplishing now is really astounding as he is checking both of those boxes. Misawa's work post 1997 is subjective like workrate is but he was involved in my 1998 MOTY vs. Kobashi, the 3/1/03 Misawa/Kobashi match is probably my favorite match of the 2000's, and the Akiyama 2000 match has a big chance as a MOTY as any match in 2000 for me when I start plowing through that year. Misawa's 2000-2009 is as good as any second decade that Funk or Lawler produced IMO which nets me in the minority I would assume. Hence, why I had Misawa as #1 and Lawler/Funk hovering around the top 10. The estimation that anything post 6/3/94 is excess is out there but I still see it as a rising escalation that hindered matches in 1997 when AJ really dropped off in quality as the best promotion in the world. From there it is hit/miss with certain matches even into NOAH's glory days and nothing ever matches 1992-1996 AJ as far as consistency but I was still able to see psychological rises in the escalation in matches vs. Kobashi in 10/98 and 3/03. Misawa was able to really provide a changing of the guard to Kobashi that he stuck to until Kobashi contracted cancer and Marufuji/KENTA weren't ready, Misawa could do great slugfests with Takayama and Morishima, Misawa looked like a great, stoic legend in the Tenryu tags as well as the 1/4/09 Dome match (no doubting the Tenryu singles is a blemish), and he also was helpful in their with the younger generation like Akiyama in 2000-2001, Maru/KENTA in 2004, making Shiozaki his protege in 2009, etc.

Really good match that ran the gambit of brawling, tag control work, executing submissions, bomb throwing near falls, and a well done strike exchange to end it off. I can't recall if I have see Kyoko Kimura before but I did enjoy her here and thought she had a lot of presence. It really felt like her and Nakamori had to overcome the odds and the win was well deserved. ***1/2

Welcome to the newbies!