Ray

Styles-Joe was an MMA match? OK.......

I think selling is a bit overrated. There are situations where no-selling - or to put it nicer, selling less - is appropriate. Selling, above all things, should not be utterly realistic, but should befit the character and the story. As long as it does that, I'm happy. I'm surprised transitions aren't mentioned as much. Weak transitions, to me, are bigger flaws than unrealistic selling. If they don't clearly show who is in control and who isn't it's easy to lose the crowd and ruin the flow of the match. I'd rank my criteria as: #1. Story/character. #2. Heat. #3. Transitions. #4. Offense.

I can't say I am. I watched the ladder match with Rey and I was marking out just as I would have before Eddie's death.

It was a great spot and not the only headlock in the match. What's the problem? Suzuki kept running away and dodging Kobashi's offense. It's hardly shitty selling when he sells the arm throughout the match. He's the ace, the champion, seen as the strongest wrestler in the country, and ranked far higher than his opponent. There's nothing at all wrong with hitting the lariat after having his arm worked. Just like Misawa would still elbow you after having his arm worked. Just like Kawada would still kick you in the head after having his knee worked. It's ingrained in the psychology of the promotion. It'll hurt you more than it will hurt me. What then? Should he pull out the moonsault? Or the Burning Hammer? To finish off someone as low as Suzuki? Come on now. Lariat is the best choice for a finish.

The headlock spots were great. Suzuki was being a dick and running around and the headlocks were Kobashi showing he could control at will. It's good storytelling. I think it's silly to think arm work will stop the ace of NOAH and the strongest wrestler in Japan from hitting his finisher. If anything a slimy heel trying to dick him over makes it more proper for him to do it. Shows he won't be dicked around by some punk. That's why the finish is good - Kenta gets payback for Suzuki's BS. I loved it and I have it in my top ten for the year.

I've always hated the idea that mid-carders "need" titles to have something to do. No, what they need is GOOD WRITERS/BOOKERS to give them something to do.

I don't know how one could be unimpressed with this match. Care to explain?

*laugh* He makes it sound like Joe is squashing everyone.

Surely Angle can't be blamed for McMahon's notion of pushing home-grown talent over outsiders? Some would argue it's a good thing that they've toned down from 2002's suplex-a-mania. One could argue it's Benoit's fault, as he started the suplex craze with his rolling germans on Austin. Anyway, before that it was punch/kick/finisher Attitude Era-style, and I doubt you'd want to go back to that. You know the worst thing about it is that people think he "makes everyone look good" because he bumps.

Kurt Angle - He's very good. Great bumper, good offense, great cocky heel, good at getting/keeping the crowd involved, large number of good matches in a short career, etc... AJ Styles - Styles has grown on me a lot recently. Many of his matches are total spotfests, but they're wild and crazy and incredibly fun to watch. He also brings a lot of babyface fire to his work. Shawn Michaels - I'm one of the few who believe he was at his best as a face tag wrestler. He was fantastic at selling, bumping, hope spots, and building sympathy with the crowd. Outside his matches with Angle, I haven't enjoyed him much lately. He's looking old and relies far too much on strikes, at which he's never been good. Kenta Kobashi - If Kenta Kobashi is not a legend then there has never been a legend in wrestling. He's top five all-time and still the best in the world today. No other can bring the level of drama, intensity, carrying ability, moveset, or story. Has a staggering, enormous body of good-great matches over his career with a wide range of wrestlers. Perhaps the hardest-working wrestler ever. Christopher Daniels - Does nothing at all for me. Pass. John Bradshaw Layfield - Good "old-school" heel. A competent worker who is universally underrated. Necro Butcher - Good for what he is - a garbage wrestler. Can be fun.

I'll read them but I can't participate.

Even when I *hate* a wrestler, it's not hard to "get" why people would like him. I really can't imagine how one could not understand the love for Styles, Angle, Michaels, etc..., even if one complete disagrees with it.

A more frustrating link might be this one: http://www.oratoryweb.net/oforums/index.ph...showtopic=28036 I really have to wonder how many of the people who voted Michaels have actually seen a fair amount of Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi.

I'm baffled as to why anyone would even remotely consider Malenko being better than Benoit or Guerrero. And I like Dean.

Haven't seen it in years, but I loved it. It was one of the first Japanese matches I saw and truly loved. Hansen and Gordy killing the crap out of Kawada was a joy to behold. I need to go back to it one of these days.

You have my apology, then.

What in the world is your point? Who said it would? Someone wanted to know the story. I explained it. The story is Punk - underdog and hometown babyface vs Joe - dominant champion.

Eh, let's not overcomplicate things. The story in Joe-Punk II is very simple: CM Punk, underdog and hometown babyface, takes on Samoa Joe, dominant and respected champion, and comes close to winning. That's it. You don't need to watch a dozen prior matches to decode the secrets. Despite all the praise it gets from smarky/elitist-types, it's really not a smarky/elitist match. I was marking out like crazy for Punk's comebacks and nearfalls. He puts a ton of heart and desire into his performance. I'm not much of a fan of long matches, so it takes a lot to get me to love one. I loved this one.

As it happens I watched the 1/3/05 Benoit-Batista match last night. It's definitely a turning point for Batista, as he got a mixed reaction when he came out and a monster face pop when he won. The crossface spot was sheer brilliance.

Benoit's had an off year in 2005, mostly because he's been HORRIBLY booked. After he lost the title it was almost like he didn't exist. Still, he's had good matches, including working one around Christian, who didn't want to do anything but hold Benoit's arm the whole match. He's also had good matches with HHH, Edge, and Regal, and possibly more but I've stopped watching WWE. In 2004 he was great, despite not really being booked as a champion. For a few months after winning the title he was having a good match on Raw almost every week. I saw him pull good matches out of people like Randy Orton, Kane, Tyson Tomko, Ric Flair and Batista. The May match with Michaels was great. Aside from some repetitive offense and a bad finish, the iron man with Triple H was smartly worked and surprisingly good. The Raw match with Kane might be the best match Kane ever had and it gets no attention.

Austin-Hart 11/96 is the most overrated WWF match ever.

Steiners

Midnight Express