El-P

The product has looked the same for 20 years.

He had the scoop on Schiavone going to WWE though. He even quoted himself having the scoop... Well, that is unfortunate for Kylie Rae. Hopefully she is ok.

The fact there isn't more replies says less about the show than about the board, really... I thought it was an excellent show, with Lucha Bros vs Young Bucks easily getting MOTN and honestly, this was a MOTYC to me. Just insane. And they really didn't fell into the most tired ladder match tropes like the slow climb (which they made fun of on BTE). Matt Jackson is such a terrific mind for details too. I guess Fenix's leg was okay... LAX won't be called LAX I guess. I wasn't crazy about the way they showed up though. The matches between these three teams are gonna be crazy though, LAX vs Lucha Bros in IMPACT was great stuff. Second best match was Omega vs PAC. Great match too and quite the surprising result. I like how they are doing stuff that make sense. Omega had his mind set on Mox, he overlooked PAC and got caught. Riho vs Shida was probably my third favourite match of the night. I agree Shida should be the star, damn that girl is dynamite. Not that Riho is anything less than very good, and I get the underdog vs monster story they want to tell for the first championship match. Speaking of which, Nila is not ready. She's better than Nia Jaxx when she was thrown into the mix, but she's too green still to be put in this position. I hope she doesn't get the title already, because it could hurt her if the perception is she isn't ready (which she isn't). Anyway, I want to see more of Shida, I'm a fan already. Jericho vs Hangman was a very good match, but it had no shot of following the Bucks vs Lucha Bros, which emptied the crowd of its energy. It's clear also no one really wanted Hangman to win yet. Plus he should settle down on those shooting star press, although the counter on the outside by Jericho was the greatest thing ever in that it made an otherwise awkward spot into something cool . Jericho is AEW's Terry Funk. He'll have a really hard time getting booed. I thought he looked fantastic, better than Page. Right man won. Page's wife was funny in that she was having way too much fun ! Page is still young and had shitload of potential. Cool entrance on the horse too. Cody vs Shawn Spears was tons of fun. Not a great match, just good, but excellent booking. Honestly Spears was just there. And it was designed that way too. Tully was the second best guy in the match. Seriously, he did a better manager job than I've seen in years. The Arn spot I could see coming from miles away after, but was cool nonetheless. They are slowly building Cody vs MJF, and that is gonna be gold, probably. Loved the six-men SCU vs Jurassik Express match. That Jungle Jack boy is something (more on that later). Totally the kind of opener you want to get the crowd going. SCU are awesome at this. The Dark Order gimmick needs to be revamped badly. They are not over and although their in-ring work is good, they just drag whoever works with them into a hole of silence, despite the goodwill of that crowd. Worst match on the show and still technically good, but yeah, that gimmick is a failure. Kill it before the TV. And it's like they know it, since Orange Cassidy showing up was there to make you forget about the Dark Order. Janela vs Havoc vs Allin was exactly what I thought it would be. Ok, with Janela throwing a tennis racket away, and since we know Corny & Callihan were actually working a rivalry online, I'm that close to expecting Corny showing up in AEW at one point like he did in ECW back then for a showcase against Janela. Allin is going to kill himself, but hey, what are you gonna do. Janela was the star of the match in term of personality What the hell was that orihara moonsault BTW ? The monkey flip in the chair was hilarious. Havoc was kinda hidden by the other too, and in a way he was the smarter worker in not taking the biggest bumps, and I guess the paper cut spots are fine the first time you see them but... The pre-show match with Angelico & Evans vs Private Party was the greatest flippiest match ever. Evans & Angelico as heels is exactly what you need. PP are not ready for anything other than doing awesome spots yet, let's see if they can grow out to be more than that. They certainly have charisma too. Yeah, the women battle royal was a miss. Felt rushed. No real big surprise. Tenille Dashwood from IMPACT working the show was certainly interesting. I hope Ivelisse gets signed. I'm glad Scarlett didn't show up there, would have been a waste. I get what they want to do with Nyla, but when you have a lot better workers around her, I dunno, I would hope the don't go Nia Jaxx with her (although she's got a much better presence). Some good spots at the end though, Britt looks like a star. So yeah, tons of fun, love the presentation and production, love the approach they have with zero backstage segment and stuff. The announcing... Ok, Excalibur is excellent, that's a fact. I have no idea what Goldenboy is here for. Thus far he doesn't display much personality, doesn't add anything to the booth. And then there's good ol' JR. Sorry to say, but he wasn't good. Jungle Jack ? Again and again and again ? And it's not like it's something new. He used to mix Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit in 2000. Did not know how to put Riho and Shida over at all (to say the least), basically saying they have no chance against Nyla anyway. Seriously, I know he's valuable as a name, but his performance here was pretty damn bad. You want a classic voice ? Put Schiavone in. Hell, call Corny, who has been *great* (despite the bullshit) in AEW. Call Don Callis, who's simply a terrific, terrific announcer who also adds humour and character to his stuff, something that is really lacking from this announcing team (hell, even super serious NJPW announcing during the G1 had a lot more flavour and personality). So yeah, that's my big criticism. JR just isn't up the snuff and will not grab a younger audience with this kind of announcing. Goldenboy, I have no idea. Keep Excalibur, he's he anchor. Anyway, terrific show, can't wait for the debut on TV.

I may check it out eventually, although this week-end is already ridiculous with All Out, the London NJPW show and a big CMLL show last Friday. WALTER in NXT UK is a waste to me. He would be so much more interesting doing tours in NJ.

I doubt anyone cares about that at all, honestly. Jericho is the biggest mainstream name they have, he's the veteran heel that's gotta be chase by the AEW babyfaces, he's got everything to be the first champ. Except by your logic of comparing with NJ, Page last year was basically a JTTS in the G1, so what does that make AEW look like. It's neither here nor there, AEW and NJ don't work together anyway...

I was thinking about watching that one, but the last WALTER match I saw at Takeover before Mania lost me by the way of being the typical WWE self-conscious epic pushed to the NXT limits. So I guess I'm not gonna bother.

Wow. After RVD, who is ok doing an older version of himself, Rhino, who's as worthless as he's basically been for the last 15 years, now Swinger, who was always worthless ? I guess he's a very low price talent, but not throwing enough money in the way of Scarlett Bordeaux and Killer Kross to keep them while getting uncharismatic Micheal Elgin and a bunch of washed up ECW guys (and not even the fun ones, as I have nothing against Dreamer there, he just had a quite good brawl with Sami last week) is not good talent relation...

It has to be Enzo ! Ok, seriously, the whole "Only 40% of the roster has been revealed" bit from Cody kinda feels like a bit of bluffing, but it would made sense they have a few aces left on their sleeves for the TNT debut.

I would be shocked if they put the title on Page, although it would be a bold move. With Fenix probably a lot less than 100%, PAC vs Omega should steal the show. Cody vs Spears as a grudge match could be very good, depending on what Spears brings to the table and what they do with the booking (who is gonna be with Cody). Janela vs Allen vs Havoc could be quite fun in a "who wants to die the most" (I guess Allen). Any joshi puroresu match on a major stage is cool. I can't wait to see who is gonna show up on the women's Battle Royal (you know who I'm waiting for).

Yeah, no shit. Just like the accusation of "too much gaga" from the manager of the MX doesn't fly for two seconds. Yep. And scrap "sporting events". Annoying people are everywhere. I don't go to any sporting events, ever, but I've had my share of annoying as fuck people at concerts.

Ah, ok (this is so written in French btw). About the bolded part, no one wants to do that !

That's NZO for you. And the guy has been setting the indies of fire. He's a draw and all. BTW, remember when the talking point was "Enzo is the next Roddy Piper ?". Well, I thought this was ridiculous even way back when, as really their act was the NAO with a hot girl add in (who has been doing the best of the three of them BTW), as in a sing-along catchphrase and matches no one gives a fuck about. Cass also is the worst Billy Gunn ever. Since then, that MJF fellow has surfaced, and really, if there's a "next Roddy Piper" out there, whatever that means in 2019, it's him. Anyway, yeah, please WWE, sign them back or AEW will jump on them ! Release some guys to give those two a fat paychecks. Please.

Really now ? I know the whole "Enzo is star" bit has been a running gag on this board (yeah, I know, those irrelevant 205 Live "big" ratings), but come on now. I mean, WWE can't be THAT desperate.

Meanwhile, IMPACT remains my favourite weekly pro-wrestling. In the absence of Cage (which honestly can't be too good, he has been away forever now), Elgin has been feuding with Rhino in the background, leaving Tessa Blanchard and Sami Callihan, the two MVPs of the promotion, feuding on top. I guess if they have the patience, they can go with Sami winning the title at Bound for Glory then Tessa winning in 2020 (and then leaving for AEW hopefully, not that I want IMPACT to lose a key talent, but I would love to see her in the major promotion I actually want to follow). Falah Bahh vs Moose was a very good big guy match. Rascalz vs Mack, Swann & RVD was also very good. I guess the Desi Hit Squad on the farm will be some classic old-school pro-wrestling vignettes, but at this point I'd like Rohit Raju to actually get more credit and a single push in the X-div, the guy is good. Also enjoying the dynamic between Keira Hogan (the heel turn did her a world of good) and Madison Rayne. Especially since they have super solid matches lately, with Jordynne Grace as the enemy. I guess Grace & Rosemary vs Rayne & Hogan is happening at BFG. The Taya stuff with Bravo is pretty funny in a corny pro-wrestling way. Taya is another one that should land "somewhere", especially after her terrific cameo with her husband on BTE last week. The only angle I'm not a big fan of is Ace Austin & Eddie Edward, not because I don't care about these two, and I actually enjoy Austin actually get some time and a legit angle to showcase more personality, but it's one if those "the babyfaces aren't watching their own show ?" angle. Works in LU because of how the promotion was built, on IMPACT it doesn't work as much, we know Austin is a douchebag. The tapings in Mexico are always fun thanks to the different atmosphere and AAA talent showing up, so looking forward to watch these shows. What's up with Killer Kross ? He hasn't been around. Are they working toward granting him his release ? Hopefully, again, the AAA connection lands him & Scarlett a job in AEW eventually. Despite the ever problematic issue of depth, IMPACT is still doing a terrific job with what they have. And Callis is the best color guy today.

Fuck, I had forgotten about that part of the story !

Thanks for reminding me not to listen anymore. Highlight of Orton's career to me is when he broke his hand doing the idiotic "viper" bit where he hits the mat and overdoes that evil look that he overdoes...

Why I could never care about WWE's modern style (speaking about in-ring, promo style, presentation, everything basically) that debuted in the 00's in two words : Randy Orton. I mean, I've called him the Black Hole for a reason.

Considering their match on August 9, Ciber has to be one of the shittiest guy around. When you can't have a good match with Ultimo Guerrero, you're useless. Has Cibernietico sucked for the last 25 years ? Sky Team vs NGD should rule though, the trios matches they worked this summer were all fantastic despite the fuck finishes.

I've said it before, I take Tony at his best vs JR at his best any day. And honestly in 2019, I take Tony over JR in a heartbeat. To me JR has been mighty fine in AEW thus far, much better than he has been on NJ, but Tony's work in MLW shows how dynamic he still is today (plus I feel like he enjoys the modern product more), and he doesn't have that grumpy side good ol' JR can showcase at times (moreso on his podcast than on AEW broadcast thus far though). JR still is the Name, so he's valuable for that reason only.

Please, no. You can give whatever argument in favor of "pro-wrestling is an art", but accusing anyone who doesn't think it is do it because of "class taste" is a really bad sophism and judgement of intent. I've been a fan for 30 years. I don't consider it an art-form, for the various reasons I already ranted above. Not everything as to be an art-form to be interesting or even great. Totally agree. I'm sure tons of old timers said the same shit about the MX in the early 80's than old-timers say about the Bucks today. Work too fast, too much comedy, do too much spots, unrealistic... Well, Omega is actually is one one the best details guy ever and putting him in the same sentence as Jeff hardy and Shawn Micheals is actually an insult to the guy, really...

Amazing. It's got to be pretty recent too since Corny is sporting the grey hair. And you know what ? It *could* work, especially with Corny cutting hilarious promos on the guys (although I hear the usual bunch complaining about "body shaming" already, and for once they wouldn't be completely wrong, I mean Corny is the one who thought Kevin Steen could not be a star because of his look). I mean, it's nothing too different from Tough Enough and the likes. It's also hilarious in hindsight Corny would take part in this while shitting on anything "meta", because at least the meta comedy guys plays on tropes to get some legit results as far as comedy goes in the context of a pro-wrestling show, while this is downright "exposing the business" by cutting down matches like the Meltz and the forum geeks of the world are doing on a daily basis. Why the fuck is BB there BTW, apart from the obvious reason ? This stuff can only come from Memphis guys too, the parangon of pro-wrestling purity, realism and credibility...

Following the Jordynne Grace debate, I heard Lance Storm made the most baffling argument that pro-wrestling was actually a *competitive sport* : workers are actually competing for spots on the card. Coming from someone supposedly as smart as Lance Storm, this is a terrible (to stay polite) argument. First off, pro-wrestling is a fiction. Even JR says so in his podcast. There's no two ways around it. If "people fighting for spots" make anything a competitive sport, then what about people trying to climb up the ladder in their company, in their acting career, in their academic hierarchy, whatever. I mean, it's just a ridiculous argument. Storm also made the Mike Oles analogy with figure skating. Well, if that's the case, who is giving the prizes away ? Meltzer ? PWO ? Except it's not the case. Meltz is a critic. THE critic maybe, but NJPW did not boost its attendance in the 2010's by trying to get snowflakes from a newsletter guy and journalist from the US. Pro-wrestlers don't go sit on the bench after their match waiting for notations, with the highest ones getting the golden medal. Let's not even talk about the fact of how biased and screwed up figure skating as always been because of that "jury gives notes" way of working anyway. Of course it has a sporting base, and it has never been as important as it is today, because no matter what some people say, "great matches" have never mattered more than today. Because people know what pro-wrestling is and no one is gonna go crazy for Brutus Beefcake or this kind of 80's useless guys in 2020. People care about the performance because they know it is just that. But then, what is supposed to be sports anyway ? I mean, when the organization of the Tour de France makes the road of the next Tour, then make it so it can be a spectacle and a source of entertainment, because competitive sport at the highest level in term of mainstream appeal is just that : entertainment for the masses and money for the corporations and brands. When the rules of a game is modified because it makes it more entertaining, what is it exactly ? The whole ideology of competitive sport as a value is a complete joke in a capitalistic economy (generally speaking too, I might say). Now I'm thinking about the old pro-wrestling/porn analogy that everybody hates. I had seen a documentary about the relationships between porn and sports. At times it was eerily similar to pro-wrestling, again. There's no question that most of the girl are actual athletes, if only because their work is extremely physically demanding. One retired actress talked about how at 40 her knees were fucked up because of the thousands of hours on all four talking it doggystyle. Well, you can laugh, but it's basically the same thing as Keiji Mutoh doing too many moonsaults. There's also the performance aspect of it that some porn stars actually value, whether of not taking three dicks in your ass at the same time is more or less ridiculous/repulsive as taking a razor blade and slicing up your own flesh and actually bleeding buckets for visual effect in a pretend fight. Not even going into the performance enhancing drugs to stay hard or to be able to take the aforementioned three dicks in the ass. But like pro-wrestlers, porn workers are engaged in a simulacrum. Yes, they are actually "having sex", physically speaking, but not really. Like pro-wrestlers are actually taking bumps and hitting themselves on the chest while not really fighting. And selling is really important in both cases, really... Yet, porn really will never been seen as actual art, even though the old "non simulated scene in art movies" gimmick surfaces from time to time, and even if some efforts have been made from some directors to go well beyond simple masturbatory material. I guess what's make pro-wrestling so interesting and unique is the fact it can't really be classified. It's a sport, yes, but not only, and certainly not competitive. It's also a performance, but will never be taken seriously as performance art because it really isn't just that either. The day pro-wrestling gets into modern art exhibitions or the like in a non novelty way, I will change my tune, but for now, it's still its unique beast that has a very complex relationship with the truth and its own status. In the end, I do agree that the current generation has a much healthier rapport with pro-wrestling overall, like @sek69 said, which is why it's not an issue for them to, for instance, laugh with Orange Cassidy and later in the same card, be totally, sincerely immerged in a serious match with Cody.

Bruce has been exposed badly by JR's podcast. It's not like anyone had mistaken Brucie for anything but a WWE shill anyway, but really... Remember when Bruce apparently didn't give a fuck because he never thought he could work for WWE again and this podcast was a lot of fun ? Yeah, me neither. Seems like in another lifetime.

Fenix is insane. So, injury or not, he'll probably be at All Out.

Catching up on IMPACT. Yeah, Santos thrown in the mix can only help Cage as a character, especially since he really haven't been around because of his injury. I salivate with the perspective of Callihan making Cage & Melissa's life a living hell leading to their title match, hopefully at Bound for Glory. And I second the love for The North vs The Rascalz, just a terrific match with two teams that seem to be made for working against each other, as they compliment each other perfectly. Ethan Page is such a underrated talent, he's not gonna overshadow anyone, but he's holding things together both in the ring and on the mic. Kinda like a subdued Arn Anderson type.