El-P
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Everything posted by El-P
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E5. Ok, I'm not getting into this Cage vs Texano deal (too indieriffic), but Puma vs Matanza was quite the good main event, with the great Mil run-in at the end. Damn, Catrina's look this season... Ivelisse & her new annoying boyfriend vs that creep Marty the Moth & Cheerleader Mariposa I can get into, especially Ivelisse slapping the fuck out of Marty, who's been consistently entertaining. I can feel the Sexy Star stuff coming and I don't look forward to, although her match against Pentagon was way better than it had the right to. I didn't notice the "I'm kind of a big deal" stuff in Dario's office. I want the same one. -
It's less an issue of nearfalls and what moves are used to produce them. It's an issue of false finishes. Nowadays, you usually have a thousand nearfalls but zero false finish. Back during AJPW's glory days, you actually had false finishes. Raven, of all people, used to produce legit false finishes with his dog & poney show. The indierrific styles just as the WWE self-consicous Mania epic style have zero false finish, it's all about nearfalls for the sake of it, often with the thought that kicking out of a finisher means it's shocking and exciting, when in fact it's not unless it's being bought as the actual finish. Which doesn't happen since everyone kicks out of finishers all the time, and only one finisher can end the match anyway. (well of course you can argue people are going crazy for it, but I'm speaking for myself of course) The infamous Taker loss was the perfect illustration. No one bought the finish because people actually thought it was gonna be an usual near-fall via finisher kick-out. It's like the whole thought-process had been reversed. If people bought it as a true potential finisher and it ended up being the finish, then it would have been awesome because "Shit, Taker is done ! SHIT HE IS DONE !!!" But it flopped because people were like "Wait, why wasn't this a near-fall ? Did Taker actually lost ?" Build to one false-finish, and then you get a fucking moment where you buy what's happening. The move itself doesn't matter, it can even be cheap spot or a run-in, it's what it leads to that matters. It's the build to the idea that it is it. The use of near-falls for the sake of near-falls, with kicking out of finishers galore, is bad because they don't actually produce any false finish. Because the idea is that just the number of near-falls is what makes a match great. Which is wrong, of course.
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From memory it was one of Fukuoka's last matches. She had a neck injury and retired not too long after that. It was a part of her retirement tour, so she'd work with her old friend Candy, who herself retired once (an amazing thing to see BTW, Candy's retirement in JWP) before coming back in ARSION. SO if it felt like an exhibition of moves, it's because that's basically what it was, as a way to say goodbye. Fukuoka had the sickest finisher ever, the insane moonsault footstomp. I really enjoyed that girl. And yeah, Candy was getting a bit annoying at that point. Fujita never developped into a complete worker from what I remember, but she sure had a look to her. Liked her too. Ah, that Yoshida vs Futagami match was a MOTYC to me back then.
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You just defined GAEA post 1998. This is pretty much the main criticism we (as in : me and a bunch of joshi fans at the time) used to make back then. Pretty much words for words. Really frustrating for the Oz fans. (although in all honesty, Hokuto was pretty washed up by then, Lioness was not that great and KAORU... well, she was KAORU, make of that what you want. )
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Hilarious bullshit first fall via DQ by the heel ref, then Ano 2000 takes a chance and bashes Perro's head's in with brass knucks. Then goes the bloody brawl, with matwork to boot and footstomps in the gut. Blood everywhere, it looks like Mascara has changed mask when infact he's just bleeding buckets. Only in lucha libre I guess at this point. Excellent use of the seconds, specially the heel one (whom I don't know because I'm just a lucha beginner) and the finish is glorious. I have no idea what the consensus is in the lucha libre community, but I thought it was terrific. Such a gritty, old-school feel. MOTYC level for 93 I'd say.
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Damn, La Parka's entrance to Thriller. This guy had so many charisma already. Crazy to think no one in WCW even thought about pushing him, with the bonus size to work in front of the US crowd. Anyway, this is really good for a while, then they kinda lose the pace and exchange way too many two-falls kick-outs without much rythme or reason. The controversial pin should have worked. Then the restart was more of the same, kinda paceless near-falls. Too bad because it was really damn good for a while and kinda fell apart in the third part. La Parka looked great though.
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After two decades of hearing how awful and historic this match was, I found it actually disappointing in that's in rather a nothing match with a completely bullshit finish. And a stip that wasn't enforced. So ok, Konnan was already an horrid worker in 1993. He's wearing a Warrior-circa 92 singlet, or is it a proto-RVD singlet ? Anyway, he's awful as he's always been it seems. Cien Caras looks at least solid at points. First pinfall looks like shit because Konnan can't even execute his own spot. Second fall is idiotic. Third fall... count-out ? Really ? Were the people horrified because Konnan lost or because the match ended on a complete bullshit finish ? I have no earthly idea what the mexican audience saw in Konnan. None. At least I've learned why he's called Konnan. El Barbario. Ooooooh. So that's where this goofy name came from. I had no idea. Ok. Jake Roberts makes faces. Not exactly thrilling, although he looks devious like Bray Wyatt wishes he could look. It's crazy to think this drew almost 50..000 people (or what that the terrific Perro Aguayo vs Mascara Annos 2000 bloody brawl that came before ?) while WWF and WCW drew flies in the US at the same point. So I guess that's true, Konnan was a big star in Mexico. Why ? Again, I have no idea. At least Vamp looked cool and freaky. Konnan was basically a gringo from Puerto Rico with goofy hair and zero ability. Also, if he lost a career match in April of 1993, why were we subjected to more than a decade of awful matches, stupid videos and calling for his dawgs (where they at anyway ?) ?
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Yeah, but aside from the facts he wears black and throws stiff kicks, his matches don't bear much resemblance to shoot style. Indeed. It's really shooty-style turned into a pro-style gimmick, wirhout much of teh actual shoot-style stuff. He's not nearly as good as Takada was at this game. (although I like Shibata, he's quite good)
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GAEA was consistently the most overrated joshi promotion post 1997. And they clearly went down after 1999 when the whole super-heel stable had gone stale. Watch any other, which had more or less zero hype except ARSION a little bit, although by 2000 it was seriously going down, and you can only be pleasantly surprised by good stuff you maybe wouldn't expect (although careful with Zenjo and the Momoe craze in the early 00's). GAEA had a few great moments (the Aja vs Satomura feud, whenever Nagashima was put in a position to shine) and plenty of by-the-number stuff with great veterans mailing it in.
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I had no idea. I find that fascinating. And yes, I can't echo more the fact that it sounds awful. The WWE delivery is one element why I can't watch their TV and only care about doing some cherry-picking with matches and workers.
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I dunno. If I watch older pro-wrestling, it has nothing to do with nostalgia. Me re-going through the 90's of WCW and ECW was partly that. I grew up on WWF Superstars. I have no inclination on rewatching this stuff and WWF PPV's I have seen a zillion times. At this point, if I watch older stuff (hell, TNA 2005 is more than ten years old) it's because it's fresh to me, not because it's some kind of glory days I want to relive or bath myself into because I hate the current stuff. I have bashed the current stuff for years. Right now I'm at a point where I find myself not only enjoying, but also being excited about some of the current stuff, including (gasp) some WWE matches. And I'm glad I do. I have let some of the preconceived ideas I had slide and decided it was better to go with (some of) the flow and enjoy it for what is it. There are tons of stuff I dislike about the current scene. Then again, there were tons of stuff I disliked about the scene 17 years ago. I focus on what I actually enjoy and what brings me joy. Opinions of others, be it the old fuckers or the young punks ? Water off a duck's back. As far as borrowing what worked in the 80's, maybe. I'm more interested in new forms of pro-wrestling to be honest, as ridiculous as it can be. That's why Lucha Underground and the Total Deletion insanity were my favourite pro-wrestling TV in 2016 (not talking about matches here, although some LU stuff was indeed great).
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Agreed. Tons of great stuff in the 80's. And every "decade"'s fashion is ridiculous once you look back at it BTW. Look at the horror of early 90's color schemes. Eurodance anyone ? Wanna take a look back as those nu-rave and tektonik idiots from the 00's too, those damn fluokids ? It's all ridiculous bullshit that looks dated and laughable ten years after.
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Come on, it's like a luchaxploitation movie. This is what is great about it. Pro-wrestling will never be above C-level TV show anway. Gotta dig that infamous "wrestling vs porn" thread already. People longing for 80's TV wrestling from their 2016 wrestling TV is just another case of Retromania to me. I'm done with this way of thinking. (off topic : the use of the French term "faux" instead of "fake" as a way to, I guess, put emphasis on the fact, always struck me as a way to "sound cool" when I read it, but maybe it's nothing like that and as no implicit meaning at all, so don't take it the wrong way. I've been seeing it for years and never could quite get my finger on the exact meaning behind that particular "code switching" deal. Just curious about it, if anyone can enlight me on this, that'd be cool).
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And the answer to the question (basically a matter of "us vs them" *again*) is : no. I don't feel alienated by anyone. I have enjoyed current pro-wrestling in 2016 again after more than 15 years of layoff. I've seen some legit great matches, which felt modern and fresh (thank you Naito, Charlotte, Sasha, Revival). I love Lucha Underground. Sure, the smarky chants inherited from the ROH/TNA 00's are annoying. But then again, WWE fans of the Attitude era going nuts for Sable were fucking annoying too, as were idiots WCW fans sitting on their hands during Finley's matches and going crazy for boring nWo shit in 1998. And the ECW mutants… And the racist homophobic fans of the 80's chanting "faggots"… What is the worse, really ? So, the answer is no.
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Don't mention it. As far as labels go, I don't intend on putting a smiley each and every time I write something than is not necessarely to be taken litteraly. I know it's 2016, but I'm not an emoticon fanatic.
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Nonsense. Just watch Lucha Underground. There's plenty of all of this, plus cool matches to boot. (and the whole crying about focusing on matches only is so US-centric anyway, if you're a fan of japanese stuff, yeah I know it's not cool anymore, there was nothing but the matches basically) (funny how the tide has turned so much that people are actually advocating Vince Russo's old theory about how matches aren't that important) (basically, the snobs of yesterday (aka = workrate) have turned int the mainstream audience, and the "idiots" of then-years (aka = angles, stories, skits) have turned into the hipsters)
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They made kind of a big deal with Candy being "trained" by Sayama before she debuted the Tiger Dream gimmick, but she was just awkward with it, not at ease with the requisite Tiger spots. It shows how lucha influenced ARSION was (and was gonna be even more in the months to come). Hiromi Yagi in ARSION. A wet dream of any respectable JWP fan. Yagi will bring more awesomeness in 1999. And yes, she had the style too. Where the hell are my tapes ?!
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"Those Twitter and tumblr fans are the worse. They ruin pro-wrestling with their NJ and indy fetish". Some pro-wrestling board smark. Late 2010's "In my days, we used to tell stories. Now it's just a bunch of moves." Maria Kanellis. Sometime in the late 00's. "Internet fans don't know shit and have ruined the business. Pro-wrestling was much better when kayfabe was still around." Every active wrestler. Early 00's. "That Ric Flair guy sucks. He makes pro-wrestling looks like choregraphed shit with his cartoony antics bullshit. Wrestling in the 80's sucks. It's all a bunch of people running around and gimmicks". Some old Lou Thesz fan in 1986. "Gorgeous George ? Are you kidding me ? Pro-wrestling used to a treated seriously in my days." Some old fucker born in the late 19th century. Pro-wrestling was always better before. Before what ? Just BEFORE.
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Agreed. This is so indecent.
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It sucks indeed.
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You really make me want to rewatch that stuff I loved so much. Has AKINO debuted yet ? Don't remember the timeline, but her debut was like the best debut match ever. She was Yoshida's pet project and she was simply terrific from the get go. Ayako was a lot messier, but she was pushed basically to the moon at a very young age, and all things considered, she did pretty damn well.
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Well done Charles ! Happy birthday to the board ! To the next ten years of pro-wrestling crazy and irrational fandom.
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Right now, Nia Jaxx is a rookie wrestling like a third rate Eagle Sawaii (and old joshi watchers know that is not a compliment at all). With a terrible look. Monster Ripper as Bertha Faye was more intimidating and way more devastating (well, she was Monster Ripper after all). Nia's green as hell, so she's got time. But she isn't showing much potential to me. And she's doing the easiest style in the world. Not feeling it. And it's too bad, because a women division needs a good monster too.
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DIY vs Tajiri & Tozawa was excellent. You can see Tajiri is only doing his requisite spots, but he can still deliver them, so good for him. Tozawa did the brunk of the match though, never saw him before, he's quite the worker. Nia Jaxx vs Asuka was nothing. Because Nia Jaxx basically is a nothing worker at this point. She bores me to tears whenever she gets on offense. She's just big and that's it. The preppy make up doesn't help her complete lack of aura, and she looks lost a whole lot. Asuka was basically having a match by herself. Have her against Charlotte, please. She's totally wasted in NXT, no one even approach her level of work and aura. Samoa Joe vs Nakamura was very good, but there's something definitely missing with this pairing. Don't know if that's because Nak is cruising at this point, but it really isn't on par Nak's best stuff in NXT. Which basically was his first match. I can feel the old WWF syndrome with Nak. He should have been thrown in the mix like AJ immediately. Right now, it's like he settled in a WWE comfort zone, and good for him not breaking up his body in a "dev" territory. It's kinda ridiculous though to see Nak headlining a glorified big indy show in Japan when he headlined the Tokyo Dome. He needs show up at the Rumble. Saddest part of the show was the japanese audience doing dual chants and even worst, "This is awesome" at one point. I dunno, maybe this was the work of gaijins, but I don't think it was. Please, let's not have all the different audience in the world ape the smarky US chants. It sucks. It also shows that the chants are perceived to be part of the show and "required" from the audience. Lack of character if you ask me.