El-P

It was promoted by one of the magazines I believe. For ever there was only a (crappy) handheld, so watching conditions aren't very good. It was infamous for the Women & AJ showing up everybody (well, except the MPro guys), including a pretty lame NJ main event in their own building, and an awful FMW match. With a legit TV broadcast, it probably would have become legendary. Well, it kinda is, but overlooked still.

you can stop banging this drum now dude. we get it. Don't bother. This is a gimmick for him at this point. He's just trolling in a very uncreative way. Funniest part is that I've been using the term "indieriffic" as a super negative for years and really haven't pimped japanese stuff for ever it seems (apart from the occasionnal stuff for the GWE). So yeah, it's just a gimmick. Either that or he's just a bit…. well it's a gimmick probably. Please find all these times I've used "indieriffic as a super negative" because I'm not sure I've ever used the term at all and probably not more than once if I have. *I* have been using indieriffic as super negative. You don't even read correctly. Seriously, give it a rest. Just ignore me. It's not like I really care about anything you say anyway. (the irony is that we actually agree on some of the stuff we both say about WWE, as I didn't care one bit for the Cena vs Owens stuff after the first match and though Cena vs Styles was godawful for pretty much the reasons you mention)

you can stop banging this drum now dude. we get it. Don't bother. This is a gimmick for him at this point. He's just trolling in a very uncreative way. Funniest part is that I've been using the term "indieriffic" as a super negative for years and really haven't pimped japanese stuff for ever it seems (apart from the occasionnal stuff for the GWE). So yeah, it's just a gimmick. Either that or he's just a bit…. well it's a gimmick probably.

Glad someone finally points an element that has been ridiculously overlooked when you hear that John Cena is a great worker. In today's environment, I dare say that the Warrior working modern WWE main events carefully plained out by agents would be considered a great worker too. Hell, he had one great match against Randy Savage, and we know how that one worked out. The modern WWE style is the most manufactured and self-conscious style of all time. And in essence, the "fakest" of all time, simply because it says the least about the workers involved.

He's gone. Hopefully he goes back to LU, but he wasn't happy the last time and there's no way he gets the same sweet deal now. From his Youshoot (where he played family man and shit, which is kinda funny now), he seems to have a real inflated sense of his value and talent.

Roman Reigns has it, Randy Orton has it, Eddie had it. Well, like the immortal Faith no More used to ask : what is it ? Let's be real. People who had *it* were Hogan, Austin, Dusty, Inoki, Choshu, Flair, Rock, Baba, Misawa, Takada, Onita, Cena. We're not talking about the same thing, obviously, because Orton never meant shit despite being pushed forever (yeah, he gets crowd reaction, so you'd hope after more than 10 years of being pushed on top, that's the HHH school of being a "star", but so did Sid), Batista became a legit star the day he appeared on the Galaxy movie (which was quite the good surprise too), and Reigns has been rejected by the crowds because of being shoved down their throat. Maybe he should mary Stephy. (one can argue than Bryan had *it* too BTW, but the constant depush and health issues prevented him from reaching his star potential. CM Punk probably had *it* too, but then again, not the favourite son, so...)

A *big* part ? Seriously ? The Demos had that fucking SM leather outfit, makeup and a great music theme and were killing people. They didn't need Fuji at all. Who did Fuji managed at that time who got over like the Demos ? The Powers of Pain (just joking) ?

Well. You're right about that honestly.

He brought fucking nothing to the table as a manager. He was playing a racist stereotypical japanese salt-throwing sadist, couldn't cut a promo and was not the bumping type. Yoko ? Hey, it's no wonder they brought in Cornette to cut the promos for him once they had to build a money feud for Luger. Fuji was terrible. I'd watch Harvey Whippleman over Fuji.

Meltz said that Fuji helped clean up the Rick McGraw mess (and may have played a role in the Nancy Argentino debacle too), hence why he had a job for so long in WWF despite basically bringing nothing to the table. It's a bit like the chauffeur getting in the HOF. NYT ? Well, I guess all the guys from the Hulk Hogan era were considered as stars.

Rusev & Lana are pretty damn excellent. Jericho is all sweaty and sleazy now. Sasha and Bailey. Eva Marie ? in a perverted way... KEVIN OWENS !!! FIGHT !! FIGHT FOREVER !!!! Well yeah, there are not many.

Really ? The whole, and only, argument for Roman Reigns is "he has all the best matches in the company". So yeah, really, the only thing is that people don't agree about the greatness of matches, but this is pretty much the only argument. The fact that Reigns is not a good promo, that his character has been pushed as Cena N°2 etc doesn't seem do be taken in account in why he's being rejected. The whole argument is "Stupid indy-loving WWE crowd, Roman is da great wrestler". Ok. So, it's only a matter of chosing your own "greatest wrestler who has all the greatest matches". They just disagree on the matches. In essence, this is good old smart fan, snowflake loving argument. That's why it's kinda funny to me. (about Roman Reigns being a great worker or not, I don't really care, or even really don't, but I was more interested in him vs Rusev than any other match at SS. Well, because of Rusev, but still, I was curious to see the match, as opposed to the other main events)

"Roman's awesome !" clap clap ! clapclapclap ! "This is wrestling !" clap clap ! clapclapclap ! "No more workrate !" clap clap ! clapclapclap ! "This is five stars !" clap clap ! clapclapclap ! *yawn* Maybe the fact Roman Reigns is kind of a crappy Cena 2.0 character with lame-ass promos and taglines also doesn't help him get over with the current WWE crowd. I mean, Bryan is far away now, let's not pretend it's just because of him to this day that people don't buy Roman. Let's fucking turn heel already. He would be better anyway.

Kayfabe ! Yeah, now kayfabe = "not everyone knew the finish" as opposed to "it's real !". O tempora, o mores…

What Coffey said about Rusev. And I didn't quote that Volkoff/Zhukov angle randomly. It's the very first angle I saw on WWF TV and of course I was all excited about it (and yeah, thinking what you saw as a teenager is the greatest thing ever to this day because of nostalgia is just plain dumb).

Matt posted a link to a Kevin Owens promo to show how he actually showed genuine heel character. Parv blew him off saying he wouldn't even watch it and rather watch 1990 WWF Superstars. Because the Boris Zhukov vs Nikolai Volkoff stuff was so compelling, you see. So yeah, I'd call it trolling under a disguise of "pro-wrestling analysis".

Gotta love that. "Hey, Owens, don't move, I'm winning the belt for you." I want a HHH vs Jeff Jarrett carny of all carny dream match at Mania.

I fiind it hilarious that people are all up in arms, not because it was a stupid as fuck finish that put HHH back in the saddle again, but because the title went to EVIL INDY GUY. And I'm the first one to dislike the indy mentality of spot-spot-spot (just read my TNA stuff). But really, at this point, give me Owens vs Zayn vs Joe in a Triple Threat at Mania, just so we have a smark mark collective orgasm and the biggest "THIS IS AWESOME" chant ever. After all, Matt, you were right. We indeed like in a *Post-Bryan* Workrate guilt era now.

You confused me with someone who gives a fuck. Like I said, Good for Owens, who from all acount is a really good guy, a huge pro-wrestling fan (like us) and doesn't have the traditionnal WWE look. More power to him and congratulation. (yes, I realize the angle was stootip and all about Triple H, but does anyone really think Trip is gonna be someone else than the asshole insecure egomaniac he's always been once he's got all the power over the company ?) And about the girls, yes, Becky and Sasha deserved to be pushed a lot more than Charlotte as they were better pro-wrestlers all around. The heel turn did Charlotte tons of good though, but she still ain't all that.

Yuu Yamagata is still working ? Wow. I would never have guessed.

Depend what you call AGAINST. Mark Henry's praises have been ridiculous at times. I remember the infamous OH MY GOD THIS IS SUCH A GREAT MATCH on Raw a few years ago against CM Punk. I remember watching it. It was like a good little TV match in which Henry was *good*. But the idea that Mark Henry was all of a sudden a superworker, yes, is pretty overstated. I still have nightmares (well, not really) of his match with Taker at Mania a few years back. And like I've stated before, I liked Mark Henry back in 1998 when he joined the Nation, way before he got good. So, it's not like waited for he became the new darling of post-Benoit workrate guilt crowd to enjoy that big load. Like I said in the G1 thread, I've always loved big working guys and legit feat of strenght. So, always enjoyed Mark Henry. Dunno why this post was so long winded though. Ah, the Big Show ? Yeah. Awful for most of his career.

AJ Styles vs Alex Shelley (TNA iMPACT! 09/17/04) iMPACT! really hasn't been a good or interesting show since its debut during the last months of the weekly PPV era. Lot of competitive squash which doens't work well when you have X-division guys or Jeff Jarrett. Not much in term of angle except regular "chaotic beatdown", which has been overused to death. The timer on the screen may have sounded like a neat and different idea, but it also expose of rush much of the matches are, including the competitive ones. Anyway. this was a good TV match, lets call it a good iMPACT! match which isn't as a good as a Nitro match because it more rushed. I always enjoyed Alex Shelley since he showed up as Goldylock's "Baby Bear". Although it took me weeks to figure out why that nickname. I never thought about the translation of "Goldylocks". Anyway, he's got a nice matwork style which is really refreshing, bumps well, works crisp, doesn't do contrived shit. So, good match against AJ Styles. And at some point, toward the end, I'm pretty sure, but I may be wrong, there's a timid "This is awesome" chant after an AJ Style kick out. It's repeated like two or three times only. I have no idea what was happening in ROH at the same time, but it must be one of the very forst occurence of the most famous chant of post 00's pro-wrestling on TV. Thus, it's quite interesting. And the match is really a good iMP.. screw that, Nitro match.

That's what we call a running gag. It's kinda like the old giant swing, it only gets really good when it's absurdly long.

So, Yokozuna was only one time WWF champ I guess. And Dean Douglas never got that IC belt. (More 90's references ! I live that gimmick, don't I ?)