El-P

It was terrible. But Russo makes him look like Riki Choshu. http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/19237-wcws-highway-to-hell/

Nope. There's no winking at the audience in LU. It's admitedly constructed as a fiction, with deaths and magic and shit, not a real "pro-wrestling promotion".

Care to give any details ? Corgan's TNA sounds fascinating.

Totally disagree. The DeMott General Rection stuff was mediocre at very best, and he always was the worst involved in any of his angles and matches. He sucked on promos too, trying to emulate a Duggan-like personna. Hugh Morrus was the perfect use for him, he was a fat guy who could bump well and make other people look good. He never was useful in any other way. Russo used him for two reasons : the roster was depleted and he tried to show he could be successful with anyone by giving him a "new idendity and character", which was a stupid gimmick name with horrible sexual pun and bad half-baked military costume. DeMott was at his exact right place as a JTTS. Lot of people who were "underutilized" really weren't (aka Brad Armstrong syndrome).

It has nothing to do with Russo, I don't even understand what you are arguing about anymore. Austin was a cool heel in an era where the audiences wanted to cheer cool heels, so he was turned babyface de facto by the audience. The same audiences who wanted to cheer for the nWo. And if you want to argue about more complex characters, there's only one, really, in this period : Bret Hart. And it all happened before the Attitude Era (when Cornette was still in the booking team, mind you). And he was not about shades of grey, really, he was straight on about his beliefs which made him a heel in the US and a babyface in Canada. This is the only angle WWF ran which approached some level of "complex" characterization, which makes it the highest point of US pro-wrestling to me along with the early nWo angle, on an "artistic" level. Austin vs McMahon was tons of fun for the first few months (until the fall of 98) but was straight on babyface vs heel. (As far as babyface acting like heels, Hulk Hogan was a complete shithead, kayfabe-wise)

Complete bullshit. Mr. McMahon was a complete heel. Austin was a complete babyface (he saved Stephy from evil Taker, for fuck's sake). Mick Foley was total babyface. The Rock was total heel, then total babyface. DX were total babyfaces, the Nation were total heels. Taker was a babyface for the longest time, then turned heel. Every act that was really over on top was either heel of faces. You can go on and on. There was no actual "shades of grey". However, in the undercard, there was some confusion (as illustrated by the Venis vs Goldust feud), but it was irrelevant when you had the hottest act in 20 years on top, which were the biggest babyface in Austin feuding with the biggest heel McMahon basically.

Except he really doesn't. It struck me when I was doing the WCW Highway to Hell, how few actual ideas Russo had, and that the narrative of him being really creative was another myth. He has a few ideas which are always the same : shoot-promos / abuse of women / self-reference to glory years of WWF / pilling up gimmick matches. He's never wrote any good, creative, compelling angle and always resort to the same shit. And when he showed up in TNA, it was back to the same stuff yet again, no matter who he's working with. He's really not much of a creative guy at all. The premise was better than Corny's, who stuck in the 80's in a bad way. But there's a point where Sean asks him : "But who's the babyface and ho's a heel ?" to which Russo answers "It doesn't matter.", and it's exactly at this point you realize that this guy just doesn't get it at all and that it would be shit. The most glorious WWF Vince Russo feud that illustrates this exact point (among other things like his amazing misoginy) is Dustin Runnels/Goldust vs Val Venis. The characters all go seemingly from heel to faces to heel to faces from week to week with the only really purely negative traits being put on Terri's back during the whole feud (she's basically called a whore by babyface announcers for flirting with a porn star while forgetting that she was dumped and humiliated on TV by Runnels months before, while Venis is portrayed as the crowd pleasing babyface until he's not really anymore when Goldust comes back, Terri being humiliated by everyone at the end and portrayed like a manipulating slut for faking a miscarriage, then turning somewhat "babyface" by going all "female empowerment" in a faction called PMS… )

AJ Styles vs Abyss (Ladder match - TNA 03/17/04) So, Abyss is a good vehicule for a great worker to have a very good match ? Well, at least, his series of gimmick match against AJ (they had a good falls count anywhere the previous week, ending i a schmooz) is prooving to me that he is actually more valuable than Kane, after all. Maybe I just got used to his ridiculous looks and maneurisms and to the fact is character is less "crazy monster" and more "goofy mofo playing crazy monster". Again, AJ is so good here, bumping, putting together spots that don't take forever, working teases and using the ladder gimmick in logical way. The only time he tried to show off and waste time trying to hurt Abyss instead of going for the contract actually cost him and Don West pointed out it was a mistake. Really good stuff with seeds planted earlier for spots later on, fine offense and a fuck finish that played into the fact Raven wanted to screw AJ out of his title shot just to get Russo's attention. AJ Styles was a great worker already. Abyss may be more useful than I thought.

If you believe Russo (?!!), Corny was gone before that, and the whole NWA invasion angle was done so Corny would work with people he would feel confortable with (this has so much "pity fuck" sound to it) while also showing him that this wouldn't work. This is an early exemple of "booking something to fail to demonstrate that it would be a failure". I think by early 98, Corny was gone, although you can see the complete Russoization of the product in Fall of 98 for the next year, until he departed and the product magically much better (not to mention the influx of talent from WCW to fill the awful undercard).

Jeff Jarrett vs Chris Harris (TNA 03/17/04) They did a good job building Chris Harris as a single contender, and the crowd eats it up. First part of the match was exactly what Id like to see from Jarrett, solid veteran work (although with soft execution), playing the fact Harris studied Jarrett's work and that he isn't supposed to be ready. Some nice stuff from Jarrett, but there's something that bugs me about his work at this point : he doesn't react much to what happens, as in he doesn't show much ass. He doesn't beg, he doesn't show fear or much frustration. Basically, he works like a kick-ass heels like insecure HHH does, and it hurts his matches. One specific instance, after working a nice count-ount spot with Harris getting back in at the very last moment, Jarrett basically doesn't express much of anything where a Shane Douglas for instance would have acted like he won the match then played shock and disbelief at the fact Harris was in the ring, arguing with the ref and shit. Jeff just turned around and got on with the next move. The match turned into a Double J Special, with ref bumps galore and run-ins, which at this point gets legit funny to watch because it shows how much a carny Jarrett is. This time around, he kicks out of the two big Harris finishers clean, while Harris gets a delay (cause ref bump) before he can kick out of the Stroke (which looked awful again). Then it ends with the requisite death guitar shot. Still, an enjoyable, solid main event all around, much better than the bad overbooked brawling stuff Jarrett did with Styles at the end of 2003. Harris looked pretty good except basically not selling after a figure four, but it's obvious Jarrett was leading him. I'd like more of this kind of match from Jarrett, with more bitching and a better execution.

Seriously, we got to go over this *again* ? In 2016 ? What about *all* the other stint that were disatrous failures, everywhere he went, everytime, for like 15 years ? Seriously... As far as Cornette goes, he sure did good with SMW (in the worst era for drawing, when regional territories where a thing of the past), which was also a super fun promotion. And as a talent, Corny and the MX drew shitload of money.

At this point, as far as following anything, I care less about the matches than about the overall feel of the product, that's why I love Lucha Underground. Well, of course, you have to have some strong matches too from time to time. That's why I love Lucha Underground too BTW, they deliver each time with big spectacle matches. The whole "indy wrestling" feel that comes from the 00's has zero appeal to me. I loved 90's japanese indy sleaze. US indies ? Yuck. I would watch NXT, but despite the hype and the fact I really enjoy their PPV's, the weekly shows really does have that WWE feel to it. Not as bad as the main brand of course (which is unwatchable to me, although the French announcing can make it bearable because these two guys are really good and fun to listen to), but still enough to make me not want to watch it.

Pro-wrestling isn't mainstream at all today. Nobody cares about it.

And Russo hasn't. He's been a proven, gigantic failure everywhere for the last 18 years. So there. And I don't see how Corny comes off bad. He's cutting a promo, people. An amazing one too. As far as Russo punching Corny, well, considering he was in "mortal fear" in TNA, I don't see that happen anytime soon. Plus really, Corny would probably go into old-man berzerk mode, no-sell it and jump to Russo's throat even if it meant blowing out his knees again.

Give me a break.

Nothing much is new, but it is the mother of all rant, the final promo is pure gold, straight out of NWA circa 1986. Russo's such a complete ballless dipshit.

You want me to die ? Those terrible America's Cup shows with awful work galore, ICP, Eric Watts vs Don Callis...

Maybe later at some point, if I get the itch. But for now, I'm just gonna post some of my favourite stuff in the Match Discussion Archives. Focusing on the good stuff.

AJ Styles vs Abyss - TNA 02/25/04 Double table match. With Abyss. And yet, AJ Styles manages to have a really fun gimmick match, with some brillant moments like him kicking a table away while he's in a chokeslam position. Abyss is clearly a guy who can have some special matches with because of his physical abilities and will to work hard, but he's such a stupid worker too. One thing he does all the time after taking huge bumps is *adjusting his shirt to hide his belly*. Ok, Choshu and Misawa were doing the same thing, kind of, with their tights, but it looked like a reflex move. Abyss looks like a trucker adjusting his cosplay costume. Anyway, lots of teases and escapes before the big bumps, which is exactly how you should work these kind of matches. AJ Styles would have had the greatest Onita match ever. Ends with some schmooz with Johnny Fairplay (whoever he was but he could have been an 80's manager) followed by Lollipop apparently (the return of babyface Vince Russo also coincides with no more cage dancers, sadly, I liked the sleazyness of it) and Lex Luger, of all people, looking older than last time. Is this the last appearance of Luger before his accident ?

AMW vs Redshirts - TNA 01/21/04 The little moment of glory for the Redshirts, Legend & Northcutt, with that awesome security guys gimmick... At some point Northcutt throws James Storm around and he falls straight on his shoulder, badly injuring it. Then Storm keeps on working, old-school style, milking the (legit) injury and having his best babyface performance to that point. Not exactly a MX vs R'n'R match in term of execution, but the Redshorts beating on Storm was quite brutal, Steiners on Nasties style. Chris Harris looked like such a star back then, and his spear is the best in the post-Goldy era.

Chris Sabin vs Micheal Shane vs Low-ki vs Chris Daniels - TNA 01/07/04 Second Ultimate X match. New rule point : you can't use a ladder. The announcers insist on that point early on. So, of course, after a while, these guys bring a ladder, and the announcers are confused as hell, and the match, which started really well, turns into a mediocre ladder match (the whole gimmick is so tired anyway), killing the whole point of the match. Then, a ref comes from the back, takes away the ladder and the announcers go "Well, we knew you couldn't use a ladder." No idea if all was planned or if it was just improvised, but it was quite the fuck up to me. The match had less insanity and stupidity than the first one, Low-ki and Daniels being the stand outs, and the ending made sense, but the whole ladder match segment kinda made it generic for a while.

Yeah, that Maria quote was hilarious, but then again, when some indy girl (see a few posts above) has the same attitude... Well, it isn't. The trailer is really well done, because the show is a complete bore. Swoggle looks like a guy you'd like to have a beer with, but honestly : no story, no dirt, no fun. Hell, the best jokes are from Sean himself, who looks bored out of his mind doing the Youshoot stuff, has been for a while. When he takes shots at his former ex-WWE-guys guests, that's pretty telling. And I guess Swoggle is doing Timeline 2007 (but then again, the 00's Timeline are all boring as hell). The Youshoot format only work when you have a real character and/or great storyteller. Well, I still learned that Fit Finlay himself was responsible for the leprechaun gimmick, which is another dent in the "Fit Finlay, wrestling great" mythology.

That Six to Survive match was ridiculously fun and the last part was legit epic. I don't even mind the ridiculous spots at this point (it goes with the territory and stuff like the triangle chop series was even described in the comentary as "ego taking over as they want to get pops from the crowd", which I thought was a nice touch without going all meta), plus they sold their asses off and the finishers are treated like actual finishers (as opposed to stuff you kick out of just because it's the formula aka "WWE self-conscious epic"). It's pretty obvious these two (Pentagon Jr. and Fenix) are brothers when you see them against one another, they look similar physically and they have a way to move around that just betrays their blood link. Loved it.

Yeah, that cracked me up too. Sandra was so level headed in how she portrayed Benoit too, as she said, you just can't erase a decade of loving relationship no matter what (and still, she insisted on the fact her sister was *brutally* murdered). Such a tragic and surreal story, I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like being in her boots, and still she showed so much intelligence and sensitivity talking about everything. The way all the deaths one after another slowly killed Benoit's spirit, probably playing a big role into him going insane, was heartbreaking, as was Jericho's story about Eddie's burial. Nancy seemed like such a sweetheart of a woman. I really like how Jericho conducted the "interview", basically letting Sandra talk and only chiming in from time to time with relevant points and stories. Not an "fun" listen, but the best one about the story since, well, his podcast with Chavo a few years back. Can't believe it's been 9 years already.

Fascinating listen.